Are plasmas on the way out?

[dwell]

Originally posted by: JRW
Viewing angles on plasma's are extremely good, Far better than LCDs

LCD viewing angles are horrible. Anything past 30° will wash out on even the top of the line LCD.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: JRW
Viewing angles on plasma's are extremely good, Far better than LCDs

LCD viewing angles are horrible. Anything past 30° will wash out on even the top of the line LCD.

Bull. I have a 42" LCD right beside my desktop pc. I frequently watch sports from the most severe angle possible (it's in line with my monitor, about 3' away on a stand) and have to work to notice any difference in the view. If I lessen the angle by even 1 degree, there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE.

Everyone I've ever seen make this claim has been looking at an LCD with the backlight cranked to 100%, if they are even bothering to base it on actual observation. Most people just parrot rumors like fanboys.

If you're having that problem with an LCD, turn the damn backlight down. HDTV 101 - they are delivered with the settings on eye-melting. Amazing how much the viewing angles improve when you drop it down to something reasonable.

I swear, the next person who makes this claim should have to post a picture with a sign proving they just took it. I can post a few dozen to prove its not true.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
Bull. I have a 42" LCD right beside my desktop pc. I frequently watch sports from the most severe angle possible (it's in line with my monitor, about 3' away on a stand) and have to work to notice any difference in the view. If I lessen the angle by even 1 degree, there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE.

Everyone I've ever seen make this claim has been looking at an LCD with the backlight cranked to 100%, if they are even bothering to base it on actual observation. Most people just parrot rumors like fanboys.

If you're having that problem with an LCD, turn the damn backlight down. HDTV 101 - they are delivered with the settings on eye-melting. Amazing how much the viewing angles improve when you drop it down to something reasonable.

I swear, the next person who makes this claim should have to post a picture with a sign proving they just took it. I can post a few dozen to prove its not true.

Nope. It's true and has nothing to do with the backlight. It's has to do with the construction of the actual pixels. LCD's have a pretty severe contrast and saturation droppoff when you move beyond a certain angle. Sure, you can still watch but at a reduced picture quality level.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
Bull. I have a 42" LCD right beside my desktop pc. I frequently watch sports from the most severe angle possible (it's in line with my monitor, about 3' away on a stand) and have to work to notice any difference in the view. If I lessen the angle by even 1 degree, there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE.

Everyone I've ever seen make this claim has been looking at an LCD with the backlight cranked to 100%, if they are even bothering to base it on actual observation. Most people just parrot rumors like fanboys.

If you're having that problem with an LCD, turn the damn backlight down. HDTV 101 - they are delivered with the settings on eye-melting. Amazing how much the viewing angles improve when you drop it down to something reasonable.

I swear, the next person who makes this claim should have to post a picture with a sign proving they just took it. I can post a few dozen to prove its not true.

Nope. It's true and has nothing to do with the backlight. It's has to do with the construction of the actual pixels. LCD's have a pretty severe contrast and saturation droppoff when you move beyond a certain angle. Sure, you can still watch but at a reduced picture quality level.

Wrong

Wrong

Wrong

Wrong

Wrong

Post a picture. Otherwise, you've no right to make that claim. I will gladly post a picture of mine tonight when I get home that shows how wrong you are.

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
Bull. I have a 42" LCD right beside my desktop pc. I frequently watch sports from the most severe angle possible (it's in line with my monitor, about 3' away on a stand) and have to work to notice any difference in the view. If I lessen the angle by even 1 degree, there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE.

Everyone I've ever seen make this claim has been looking at an LCD with the backlight cranked to 100%, if they are even bothering to base it on actual observation. Most people just parrot rumors like fanboys.

If you're having that problem with an LCD, turn the damn backlight down. HDTV 101 - they are delivered with the settings on eye-melting. Amazing how much the viewing angles improve when you drop it down to something reasonable.

I swear, the next person who makes this claim should have to post a picture with a sign proving they just took it. I can post a few dozen to prove its not true.

With my 4665 if I am not sitting dead center it will begin to wash out. If I go to the kitchen which is about 45° off the picture washes out considerably. The loss of contrast is even worse on the vertical axis. My backlight is at 4 (out of 10) and the set is calibrated flat as it can go. It's the nature of LCD. Just looking at my Blackberry screen as I tilt it the image almost becomes inverted when it hits 90° vertically.

Plasma and CRT retain (near) 100% contrast at any angle.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Originally posted by: Chris

With my 4665 if I am not sitting dead center it will begin to wash out. If I go to the kitchen which is about 45° off the picture washes out considerably. The loss of contrast is even worse on the verticale axis. It's the nature of LCD. Just looking at my Blackberry screen as I tilt it the image almost becomes inverse when it hits 90° vertically.

Plasma and CRT retain (near) 100% contrast at any angle.

My buddy Chris has a 4665 that I helped him purchase, install, and setup. We actually had to put it above his mantle due to limited mounting options.

No viewing angle problems at all. This is a legacy/poor quality issue from long ago. read the first link I posted. 175 degree viewing angles on just about every modern LCD (I wont speak for low end products).

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
Wrong

Wrong

Wrong

Wrong

Post a picture. Otherwise, you've no right to make that claim. I will gladly post a picture of mine tonight when I get home that shows how wrong you are.

Did you even read your own link?

Brightness and contrast levels can vary on an LCD TV depending on where you stand in relation to the center point of the screen, however the degree of ?fall-off? is far less than it used to be.

On a plasma brightness and contrast don't change with viewing angle.

Since I have both a Sharp LCD and Panasonic Plasma I can take a picture. However, it's not always an easy thing to demonstrate. You would need pictures straight on and off angle using the same picture displayed on both screens. In addition, you would have to adjust for exposure since once screen might be brighter than the other.

That being said, if I have the time I might decide to try and replicate what is very obvious in person. Besides the fact that the Plasma produces a much better picture, I've also shown a handful of people the inferior viewing angles of the LCD.

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
My buddy Chris has a 4665 that I helped him purchase, install, and setup. We actually had to put it above his mantle due to limited mounting options.

No viewing angle problems at all. This is a legacy/poor quality issue from long ago. read the first link I posted. 175 degree viewing angles on just about every modern LCD (I wont speak for low end products).

You're buddy Chris? Me?

Anyway, hate to argue about this, but I know my set. It's a recent rev of the 4665 and I see the problem. I'll try and take a picture of it but my camera is not so good.

 

[JRW]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: JRW
Viewing angles on plasma's are extremely good, Far better than LCDs

LCD viewing angles are horrible. Anything past 30° will wash out on even the top of the line LCD.

Bull. I have a 42" LCD right beside my desktop pc. I frequently watch sports from the most severe angle possible (it's in line with my monitor, about 3' away on a stand) and have to work to notice any difference in the view. If I lessen the angle by even 1 degree, there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE.

Everyone I've ever seen make this claim has been looking at an LCD with the backlight cranked to 100%, if they are even bothering to base it on actual observation. Most people just parrot rumors like fanboys.

If you're having that problem with an LCD, turn the damn backlight down. HDTV 101 - they are delivered with the settings on eye-melting. Amazing how much the viewing angles improve when you drop it down to something reasonable.

I swear, the next person who makes this claim should have to post a picture with a sign proving they just took it. I can post a few dozen to prove its not true.

Not sure what you're on about I know some LCD's have better viewing angles than others but Plasma's have the best overall viewing angles on the market, The picture doesnt shift colors or black levels from any viewing angle like LCD's tend to do, But dont take my word for it:

http://www.crutchfieldadvisor....home/tv_flatpanel.html

http://www.plasmadisplaycoalition.org/results/angle.php

http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-5108443-2.html?tag=lnav

http://gizmodo.com/336498/best...er-verdict-plasma-wins

 

[alkemyst]

the problem is Joe LCD or Frank Plasma owner is going to think their set > *. A unbiased review shows there are pluses and minuses to each. Also many don't keep current and only remember what they saw 1+ years ago when they picked their technology vs another.

For the most part budget is all that you need to worry about to drive this.

 

[exdeath]

Just get a 1080p LCD or DLP front projector and be done with it once and for all. I envy no plasma or LCD flat panel.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: exdeath
Just get a 1080p LCD or DLP front projector and be done with it once and for all. I envy no plasma or LCD flat panel.

To be fair, not everyone has the room for a projector. I am shooting 8' wide with my Mitsu HC4900

 

[vi edit]

I went from a 42" Plasma to a 46" LCD (LN46A650) and there is no comparison in viewing angles. The Plasma easily trumps the LCD. The saving grace of the LCD is that it's on a swivel base that lets me angle it a bit if needed. Backlight is set to "4", which is what most review sites suggest for best black levels.

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: Czar
I'm looking at the 1080p 50" panasonic plasma right now

lcd's just in no way can match the blacks of plasmas

Maybe you need to look a bit harder at a few recent quality LCD HDTVs before you make that bold statement again.

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
LCD still has a long way to go before it reaches Plasma. Sure, it can hit 1080p, but the level of detail, black levels, overall brightness, even-ness of color, quality of the backlight...etc.

You can go on and on. I think people really haven't seen an LCD compared to the newest gen of Panasonic or Pioneer plasmas.

You are such a thread squatter. You are determined to spread your legend killer FUD in every thread you travel too, huh?

And yea, I have. Have you with your rose colored sunglasses off?

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Chris
I don't want to sound like an LCD fanboy, because I think both technologies, when you add up the sum of all their faults and benefits come out about even. But all the plasma-superiority you hear on forums may have been valid in 2005, but today it's mostly bullocks.

Nope.

Plasma still offer the best quality. Nobody argues this. It's accepted fact.

LOL! Plasma today, half life burn in/out landfill tomorrow. From the day you buy a plasma, it is slowly burning out, pixel by glorious deep dark pixel. You don't notice it, months and years later, but it IS burning out and in. Just like a florescent bulb. It is a gas, and it burns in on the surface it interacts with. A fact is a fact.

Plasma Display

And there is also a reason plasmas are frequently cheaper than a similar speced and sized LCD lately. Know why that is? I do, and can any of you closet plasma geniuses guess why that is?

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: kalrith
One of the big things going for LCDs is the higher level of brightness it can produce compared to plasmas. In a home, this is almost a non-issue, and I certainly think that plasmas at any price point produce a better picture than LCDs. However, what percentage of people research their television purchase? I would say that most people decide to buy a TV, go to the store they want to buy it from, look at all the TVs, and decide which one looks the best. In the extremely bright big-box-store setting, LCDs have a huge advantage with their higher brightness and matte screens.

I read an article (I'm not sure where) that concluded that people think the brightest TV is the best-looking TV. It did a test that showed several ISF-calibrated TVs along with a couple of TVs in "torch" mode (max brightness & contrast), and the majority of the people said the brightest TVs had the best picture. The average Joe doesn't realize that a blazingly bright TV that looks best on a wall of 100 TVs in a very bright store won't look that great when in his livingroom watching a movie on Saturday night. The average Joe also doesn't realize that products with the words Monster, Sony, or Bose on them are not automatically the highest-quality products in the store, but that's completely off this topic.

In this economic climate, most people generally buy the cheapest and not the best HDTV. And lately, the cheap plasmas are selling better than the more expensive LCD models of the same sizes. If you can buy a 50" plasma 720p for $1000 or a 46 inch 1080p LCD for $1300 which set do you think most people on a budget are going to buy? The football looks SO much bigger on the 50" set. Plasma versus LCD versus resolution don't even come into the picture, so to speak.

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: lopri
Maybe it's because of my fault, but my 2.5 year old Pioneer Plasma Elite degraded rather quickly. I didn't play games or hooked up a PC. Just watching TVs and movies. And that thing was 8K at that time. Last year I compared thoroughly between LCD and Plasma, and decided on Samsung 5271F. Couldn't be happier.

I see the parity of Plasma->LCD in TVs and CRT->LCD in PC monitors. Not because of both transitioned to LCDs, but because of the similarity of arguments. CRT folks for a long time defended CRT as the purest and clearest picture and fastest response time in gaming. For some reason, those folks stopped talking about the said superiority of CRTs. One by one..

I think in a year or two I will see the same thing, this time for TVs. Purists who now defend Plasma will disappear one by one. Unfortunately I can only prove my point over some time, which I can't have now.

Thanks for being one of the only plasma users on earth who ever publically admited that plasmas burn in and out in a way shorter time span than their advertisers and supporters claim they do. Plasma uses a gas, which breaks down and burns onto and reacts with the clear surface glass substrate (the screen) which degrades picture quality over time. Just like a flourescent or neon bulb does. Anyone who claims plasmas don't do that is either a liar or an idiot or sells plasmas.

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: vi edit
I went from a 42" Plasma to a 46" LCD (LN46A650) and there is no comparison in viewing angles. The Plasma easily trumps the LCD. The saving grace of the LCD is that it's on a swivel base that lets me angle it a bit if needed. Backlight is set to "4", which is what most review sites suggest for best black levels.

Since the angle thing keeps coming up, the angles of a plasma are better, but how many people are seriously watching a movie at some ridiculous extreme angle off to the side anyhow? If you walk into the kitchen to make a sammich and the angle is then poor, are you making a sammich or seriously watching the HDTV? Kinda hard to do both, or you may sammich your hand. Most people who are seriously watching a movie or playing a game aren't sitting sideways relative to the screen. So this whole angle thing seems pretty silly unless your room is so large you need a projector in it anyhow.

 

[FP]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
LCD still has a long way to go before it reaches Plasma. Sure, it can hit 1080p, but the level of detail, black levels, overall brightness, even-ness of color, quality of the backlight...etc.

You can go on and on. I think people really haven't seen an LCD compared to the newest gen of Panasonic or Pioneer plasmas.

You are such a thread squatter. You are determined to spread your legend killer FUD in every thread you travel too, huh?

And yea, I have. Have you with your rose colored sunglasses off?

lol, you are quoting a post from over a year old?

i spent about 8 months reviewing, viewing and comparing LCDs and plasmas and there is no comparison between current LCDs and plasmas in terms of PQ, black levels and viewing angle.

Who cares if my plasma will become half as bright over time... The advertised half-life is over 100,000 hours before the thing is half as bright. Let's say that is overstated and it is half as bright after 50,000 hours... That means I can have the TV on 8 hours a day for 17 years before it is half as bright. 34 years if you believe the 100,000 hour number.

Quit your LCD trolling, it is obvious you are spewing a bunch of fanboy FUD.

The Pioneer KUROs have been rated by many magazines/sites/groups as hands down the best flat panel ever made.

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
Since the angle thing keeps coming up, the angles of a plasma are better, but how many people are seriously watching a movie at some ridiculous extreme angle off to the side anyhow? If you walk into the kitchen to make a sammich and the angle is then poor, are you making a sammich or seriously watching the HDTV? Kinda hard to do both, or you may sammich your hand. Most people who are seriously watching a movie or playing a game aren't sitting sideways relative to the screen. So this whole angle thing seems pretty silly unless your room is so large you need a projector in it anyhow.

I find with LCDs any degree off dead center results in loss of contrast. Anything more than 20 degrees (horizontally) is a substantial downgrade and it's even worse vertically.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: binister

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
LCD still has a long way to go before it reaches Plasma. Sure, it can hit 1080p, but the level of detail, black levels, overall brightness, even-ness of color, quality of the backlight...etc.

You can go on and on. I think people really haven't seen an LCD compared to the newest gen of Panasonic or Pioneer plasmas.

You are such a thread squatter. You are determined to spread your legend killer FUD in every thread you travel too, huh?

And yea, I have. Have you with your rose colored sunglasses off?

lol, you are quoting a post from over a year old?

i spent about 8 months reviewing, viewing and comparing LCDs and plasmas and there is no comparison between current LCDs and plasmas in terms of PQ, black levels and viewing angle.

Who cares if my plasma will become half as bright over time... The advertised half-life is over 100,000 hours before the thing is half as bright. Let's say that is overstated and it is half as bright after 50,000 hours... That means I can have the TV on 8 hours a day for 17 years before it is half as bright. 34 years if you believe the 100,000 hour number.

Quit your trolling, it is obvious you are spewing a bunch of fanboy FUD.

The Pioneer KUROs have been rated by many magazines/sites/groups as hands down the best flat panel ever made.

Fixed that for you. He doesn't just stop at LCD trolling. No one takes this guy seriously. He doesn't even deserve a response to his COMPLETELY uninformed posts. He just further proves he has no idea what he's talking about regarding HD media AND now HDTVs.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: kalrith
One of the big things going for LCDs is the higher level of brightness it can produce compared to plasmas. In a home, this is almost a non-issue, and I certainly think that plasmas at any price point produce a better picture than LCDs. However, what percentage of people research their television purchase? I would say that most people decide to buy a TV, go to the store they want to buy it from, look at all the TVs, and decide which one looks the best. In the extremely bright big-box-store setting, LCDs have a huge advantage with their higher brightness and matte screens.

I read an article (I'm not sure where) that concluded that people think the brightest TV is the best-looking TV. It did a test that showed several ISF-calibrated TVs along with a couple of TVs in "torch" mode (max brightness & contrast), and the majority of the people said the brightest TVs had the best picture. The average Joe doesn't realize that a blazingly bright TV that looks best on a wall of 100 TVs in a very bright store won't look that great when in his livingroom watching a movie on Saturday night. The average Joe also doesn't realize that products with the words Monster, Sony, or Bose on them are not automatically the highest-quality products in the store, but that's completely off this topic.

In this economic climate, most people generally buy the cheapest and not the best HDTV. And lately, the cheap plasmas are selling better than the more expensive LCD models of the same sizes. If you can buy a 50" plasma 720p for $1000 or a 46 inch 1080p LCD for $1300 which set do you think most people on a budget are going to buy? The football looks SO much bigger on the 50" set. Plasma versus LCD versus resolution don't even come into the picture, so to speak.

Wal-mart sounds like a perfect place for you to pick out your next HDTV. As for other, we're a little more critical of our sets.

 

[3DoubleD]

Been following this discussion a bit but want to read some good reviews myself. Does an Anandtech of HDTV review sites exist out there? If so please give me some links. Thanks.

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: binister

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
LCD still has a long way to go before it reaches Plasma. Sure, it can hit 1080p, but the level of detail, black levels, overall brightness, even-ness of color, quality of the backlight...etc.

You can go on and on. I think people really haven't seen an LCD compared to the newest gen of Panasonic or Pioneer plasmas.

You are such a thread squatter. You are determined to spread your legend killer FUD in every thread you travel too, huh?

And yea, I have. Have you with your rose colored sunglasses off?

lol, you are quoting a post from over a year old?

i spent about 8 months reviewing, viewing and comparing LCDs and plasmas and there is no comparison between current LCDs and plasmas in terms of PQ, black levels and viewing angle.

Who cares if my plasma will become half as bright over time... The advertised half-life is over 100,000 hours before the thing is half as bright. Let's say that is overstated and it is half as bright after 50,000 hours... That means I can have the TV on 8 hours a day for 17 years before it is half as bright. 34 years if you believe the 100,000 hour number.

Quit your trolling, it is obvious you are spewing a bunch of fanboy FUD.

The Pioneer KUROs have been rated by many magazines/sites/groups as hands down the best flat panel ever made.

Fixed that for you. He doesn't just stop at LCD trolling. No one takes this guy seriously. He doesn't even deserve a response to his COMPLETELY uninformed posts. He just further proves he has no idea what he's talking about regarding HD media AND now HDTVs.

Nobody takes you seriously here either, JerkButton. You fix other peoples posts to suit yourself then you falsley claim you speak for everyone, oh king of the bloated forum troll egos. You speak only for your own sorry little fat troll self. Woah be to the one who dares question or disagree with JerkButton. And I'm sure you get a sad and pathetic little troll LOL every time you put someone down who disagrees with you. You are best left ignored by everyone here, and that's how you will be by me from now on. You are about as nice and helpful around here as Ebola.