Are there any Athiest here?

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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136
Everyone is an atheist. We were all born without any concept or knowledge of any god. Sadly some were told by well meaning parents they "must" believe in a specific god, or they will suffer. And also told they also must NOT believe in the thousands of other gods, or they will suffer.

Just fucking with Johnny's little developing mind.


Atheist/Agnostic .... some blurry lines there but overall agreed.




I'm fine with anyone who "isn't sure" whatever way they lean ... the opposite type are the ones I worry about. (and the ones that seem to cause the most trouble!)
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,833
8,302
136
Thanks. I'll check that out. I love Alan Watts work. I've been a fan of his for some time. The Einsteen quote is great, and so true. Wasn't Einsteen an Athiest? If you haven't, you should check out The Athiest Experience with Matt Delaney as host. He cuses quite a bit, and the people that call into his show are insane.

This is a good video on how to overcome the fear of hell:

Never been afraid of hell. It wasn't part of my upbringing.

Now, another terrific source (the best I know) about the brilliance of atheism is by virtue of Christopher Hitchens. Check out videos of him debating clerics and defending atheism with stunning eloquence and wit.


 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136
Never been afraid of hell. It wasn't part of my upbringing.


Me either thank goodness ... my Dad was raised Lutheran and mom was Catholic but I was raised "neutral" for lack of a better term. (both were highly educated)

I can recall the first time I ran into the ignorant brick wall of religion when I talked about dinosaurs and fossils with a friend in like 1st grade. His "version" (read: his parents) of things at the time made zero sense to me and I told him so.

Needless to say I was forbidden to see him anymore outside school by his parents!

 
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PowerEngineer

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2001
3,557
734
136
EVERYONE regardless of whether they admit it or not is an agnostic to some degree


Spot on!

I have yet to be presented with enough evidence of any particular god's existence to think that belief is more likely to be right than wrong, and therefore none of them are worth taking into account while making my life decisions. On the other hand, I do not see how atheists can scrape together enough evidence to convince themselves that there can be no god of any sort. It seems to come up against that fallacy of thinking you can prove a negative. Admitting that there is a possibility (however slim) that some god might exist seems like the only rational position to take.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,833
8,302
136
I wear a hat 90+% of the time, indoors, outdoors, doesn't matter. Yeah, in colder weather keeps my head warm. But I also like it because it reduces glare from whatever... overhead lights, windows, bulbs. Mostly I wear bucket hats, I have something like a dozen various. 4 are of my favorites... I'm not easy to please. I also have probably a dozen baseball hats, a bike helmet, several golf type hats, and a few other kinds.
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136
Spot on!

I have yet to be presented with enough evidence of any particular god's existence to think that belief is more likely to be right than wrong, and therefore none of them are worth taking into account while making my life decisions. On the other hand, I do not see how atheists can scrape together enough evidence to convince themselves that there can be no god of any sort. It seems to come up against that fallacy of thinking you can prove a negative. Admitting that there is a possibility (however slim) that some god might exist seems like the only rational position to take.


I've had several experiences in my life that have persuaded me there is certainly "more in heaven and earth" if you follow me but that's a LONG way from being "sure" of anything.

Thing is being "sure" is a very attractive thing ... makes it easy for people to get sucked in since it feels safe.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,833
8,302
136
I consider myself a feral atheist. I was born an atheist, just like every other person that has ever been born, and remain so 70+ years later.


I was fortunate that I was never indoctrinated (brain washed) by ignorant but well-meaning parents. What a cruel thing to do to a child. How obscene is it to make a child pray every night "if I should die before .... blah blah..." when in fact a child does not have a concept of death at that point in their life, but they are taught to fear it. How many children suffer the threat of a wrathful god, and they will burn in hell forever an ever if they don’t eat their peas or do their chores. That’s child abuse.

My parents sent me to a parochial school, catholic, because it was so much better than the public schools here. Students were a mix, about one third each, of Catholics, Jews, and us 'gentiles'. Religion was a class in every grade, and about the 3rd grade the class was split up where the Jewish kids went to a different class for their whatever stuff. Catholics and 'us gentiles' usually stayed in the same room.

I can still remember them going over much of the nonsense, and even at maybe 6 or 7, thinking WTF. A boat that can hold 2 of every animal on the planet, and feed them for months and months. Something don't add up here.

Prior to the internet/forums/blogs, etc. I never thought about being an atheist, I just was for simple reason the concept of gods or whatever is just nuts. I never thought about it, just like I never thought about any so-called god. I never read books about "being" an atheist, I didn't need an instruction manual, any more than I needed to read a book about how to walk, or breath. Nor did I didn't need to reinforce or justify my views (still don't).

For a while I got active on a forum where a lot of atheists related their story of how they became an atheist. Most of them were horrific tales, both from a personal standpoint, and then the family dynamics. Again, how I was raised "religion free" apparently saved me a great deal of anguish at some point, or worse, I would still be a slave to the willful ignorance that is religion, a fate I would not wish on anyone.

My wife is highly skeptical of religion, gods, etc., probably some residual of being raised by a catholic mother. Religion was NEVER part of our family, and raising our daughter. She "experimented" as a teen and dating boys into religion... but those were just test drives. Today no religion, probably atheist.

My grandsons were brought up much the same, and when the oldest was maybe 16, he was commenting about how he viewed the whole religion/god thing as nonsense.

The only times I have been to church was when it was mandatory when I was in basic training in the Navy with probably a 2-mile march to and from. Otherwise only for weddings or funerals where my absence would not have been cool within my wife's family.
My parents NEVER talked religion or god, afterlife, any of that nonsense. When you're raised that way you're naturally skeptical, or a better term might be that you look askance on people who do deal in those currencies.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,833
8,302
136
I've had several experiences in my life that have persuaded me there is certainly "more in heaven and earth" if you follow me but that's a LONG way from being "sure" of anything.

Thing is being "sure" is a very attractive thing ... makes it easy for people to get sucked in since it feels safe.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so. - Mark Twain
 
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StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,829
875
126
I find it very hard to take anyone seriously that believe in the bible in the literal sense. Noah fitting all the species in the world on a boat....ya, good luck with that. You'd need a boat the size of Texas for a start.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,911
20,202
136
I'm Agnostic. I used to say I was atheist but then realized it's also a bit of an extreme position, how does one know for sure there are no powerful spiritual beings out there? You don't. Anyways, man-made religions pretty much suck and are responsible for so much evil in this world. But sometimes there is so much beauty in this world and odd moments of chance and inspiration that do make one wonder if indeed maybe there is some spirituality out there.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,398
4,963
136
I'm born in an atheist family, am atheist and my children have not been baptized.

But I don't go throwing it around for the same reasons as #26
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
6,755
2,129
146
Heh agnostics....they want the best of both worlds but in reality they are to scared to make a choice.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,898
12,365
126
www.anyf.ca
Atheism is basically a cult around here. For people who are so anti religion they will really be sure to let you know that their belief system is the only way and that if you don't follow it you are mentally challenged. Atheism is a faith just like any other really and you can tell by it's followers.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,273
8,198
136
Pretty much the more educated one is equals the more likely they are to be atheist. Notice the map of a clear correlation of the most developed countries tending to correlate with least religious:

It correlates better to degrees of economic inequality within a society - with more economically-equal countries tending to correlate with least religious.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,273
8,198
136
I'm Agnostic. I used to say I was atheist but then realized it's also a bit of an extreme position, how does one know for sure there are no powerful spiritual beings out there? You don't. Anyways, man-made religions pretty much suck and are responsible for so much evil in this world. But sometimes there is so much beauty in this world and odd moments of chance and inspiration that do make one wonder if indeed maybe there is some spirituality out there.


I don't believe in agnostics. I don't think they exist.

I mean, do they really live their life as if any of the possible Gods, _might_ be true? That it _might_ be the case that stepping on the cracks in the pavement will damn you to hell for all eternity? That it _might_ be the case that eating meat will do the same? That there _might_ be a reward of eternal bliss for standing on your head for 5 minutes a day?

Given that the penalties and rewards of religion tend towards the eternal, any 'expected value calculation' is going to end up suggesting there are infinite stakes involved in every choice you make. Surely a true agnostic would be completely paralysed by the terrifying weight of every decision? Given that, if you are really an agnostic, all consequences you could imagine are equally likely outcomes of every choice of action?

I bet you, like most who claim to be agnostic, actually live as an atheist. Or at least as someone who attaches specific probabilities to a limited sub-set of possible Gods.

I be there are some Gods, and some sets of religious edicts, that you are effectively 100% an atheist about.
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
13,619
2,188
126
...how does one know for sure there are no powerful spiritual beings out there?
Professor Brian Cox has an answer for you.

Atheism is basically a cult around here. For people who are so anti religion they will really be sure to let you know that their belief system is the only way a

i wanted to, but cannot let it go.

Can atheists be annoying? yes, they can. And i won't hide that a feeling of superiority exists, which compounds the problem. And, atheism isn't for everyone, some people *do* adopt it as a system of belief, but i do excuse them.

What a "system of belief" means is "here is a set of statements; you MUST believe them, and that's the end of the story, no arguing, no disputing". The problem is both that, often those statements have evident shortcomings to them, and that they are backed by instead very real organizations that appear to have mundane interestes in having people believe such statements.

Atheism is "there is no set of belief". You are not charged to believe anything, you are allowed to question everything. No control is imposed on you by any third party.

Nakedness is not a type of clothing.

Sitting in a field does not mean you are inside an unusual type of house.

Nobody charges you with having to disbelieve everything, either. In fact, it is very normal for humans to both believe things that are not true, and to make up fantasies. Those who embrace atheism will likely have arrived, sideways, at this conclusion, as "why does religion exist" is a common question in "social"(there is no 1 field of study which encompasses atheism) science. The very same reason is the mechanism which makes you believe that atheism is a religion - people help each other. People copy each other. People whill adapt things when they see those things work.

So yeah, occasionally you get a born-again atheist who loves to spout out phrases he's heard from Youtube. He's trying to build his footing, in a world that has been nearly destroyed by religion. I too when i was a child, was limited to arguments such as "how did Noah find Taiwanese Muskrats near Mount Ararat?", before realizing that the burden of proof was on religion, not on me. But we try, we try while constantly being attacked by an organization that wants to enslave your mind, with promises of paradise - after death - pending servitude in this world. But also, fighting against ourselves.

Ignorance .. is normal. Feral children do not suddenly develop an urge to seek out knowledge once brought into the civilized world. Religion is endemic in our species, without consideration for social extraction. Peter Hitchens, brother of the more famous Christ(lol)opher Hitchens, often argues FOR theology.

See, i - as an atheist - understand that not only YOU are full of shit, but *I* am full of shit as well. I have the same animalistic impulse to excuse an ununderstood phenomenon as "something did it", as anyone else does. I, just separate things that we have proof for, from things we have no proof for.

The only thing we have "faith" in (and which, in fact, has demonstrated to be fallible FOR THIS VERY REASON) is the "peer-review method", where, despite me having no direct proof that China exists, my peers, under peer scrutiny, have such direct proof, which i will then hold valid UNTIL COMPREHENSIVE TESTING IS DEMANDED.




..
There is nothing wrong with believing in god. There is nothing wrong with someone being amish, or buddhist.

The problem arises when, their system of belief, empowers them with other authority.

When a theist thinks they have identified a problem through their belief system, and offers a solution based on it. Because you are basing your solution on a set of rules that have never been proven to be true. There is no math to back them up, there is no tests, no proof, no statistics, no modern science of measurement that has ever held true to religion.

An airplane built based on rules of Physics will fly. An airplane built on the rules of Mormonism will not.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,398
4,963
136
Atheism is basically a cult around here. For people who are so anti religion they will really be sure to let you know that their belief system is the only way and that if you don't follow it you are mentally challenged. Atheism is a faith just like any other really and you can tell by it's followers.
Yes and no. Some atheist are the Vegans of religion, and for the same reason I could never join an atheist group, as it is stupid to spend time on fighting religion (at least where I live). I am an atheist that use very little if any time thinking about religion as I think it is a waste of time. But at the same time I am fascinated that highly educated people are religious in the 21st century, and I don't mind that people have different views than mine.
 
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