Are Thinkpads really all that great?

[marcplante]

It'll be interesting to get your feedback on these devices.

I'm starting a new job at the end of the month and was asked about a new PC. I was thinking T440s or X1 Carbon (Not sure about touch, though since I'm in mobile product dev, I probably should have it). Shame the X1s aren't Haswell yet

 

[marcplante]

So when i look at the reviews for the T440s and the X1 Carbon (my two top candidates, they both seem to have issues. There are a lot of complaints about the screen quality with color bleed on the T440. Is this people nitpicking? I'm a product manager doing general work, not a designer that needs precision, so beyond my aging eyes, I don't need a perfect display, just a decent one.

Takeru, what are your observations of the two 14" thinkpads you're looking at so far?

 

[007ELmO]

Yes, the thinkpad is a wonderful business laptop.

The keyboard is unbeatable, and with extended battery most thinkpads give you all day life (7-8 hours).

I have a W530.

The X series are great, no DVD drive/etc, but I really like a little more beef to a work laptop.

Extremely dependable, I can't tell you how many times my thiknpad has fallen off the bed/couch. You can hold it by the screen and swing it around/etc.

 

[Torn Mind]

I'll echo the sentiments about the Thinkpad keyboard. Feels good typing on the X61 Tablet PC. Real good. Screen could be better though since I got the 1024x768 display with pen support only. .

 

[skriefal]

Unfortunately they continue to degrade the keyboard with each new Thinkpad series. The W530 dropped the 7th row, messed up the function key row (too small, too squished together), and switched to the annoying island style layout. The W540 slides the keyboard and touchpad too far to the left to make room for an unwanted numeric keypad. The key feel on the W510/520/530 (and probably 540) is also not as good as the old T/X 60/61 series.

 

[996GT2]

Thinkpads today are not what they were a few years ago. I used to be a big fan of Thinkpads, but some of their recent design decisions are very questionable.

For example, many newer Thinkpads have the trackpoint buttons integrated into the touchpad. This is absolutely terrible from a usability standpoint and ruins one of the best features of a Thinkpad. I used a T431s recently and wanted to throw it at a wall because the trackpoint was so unusable.

 

[takeru]

So when i look at the reviews for the T440s and the X1 Carbon (my two top candidates, they both seem to have issues. There are a lot of complaints about the screen quality with color bleed on the T440. Is this people nitpicking? I'm a product manager doing general work, not a designer that needs precision, so beyond my aging eyes, I don't need a perfect display, just a decent one.

Takeru, what are your observations of the two 14" thinkpads you're looking at so far?

the X1's is what we are currently providing to executives, since its a nice balance in weight in power. screen resolution is a little low for my taste though at 1600x900, but others say they like the resolution (i'm the guy that likes microscopic icons and stuff lol). the T440s is a bit more weight to it, but has a decent resolution at 1920x1080. both of them are non-glossy touch, so its not like the colors will stand out much anyway. T440s has AC wireless, X1 only has wireless N only. if i had to choose between these two, i would choose the T440s for more power and resolution, but i don't run around with a device really. we are considering the T440s actually as desktop replacements for the regular user base. if you run around with your device a lot then the X1 would be better for you. it feels good holding with one hand on the go.

the thinkpad yoga has a glossy screen and 1920x1080 res on a 12.5" screen and has AC wireless, so to me this is the best combination so far. sucks its limited to 4gigs of memory though.

the newer thinkpads seem to reverse the function key row. media options on the function keys are default (screen brightness, sound control, etc), with function keys (F1-F12) as secondary. to use the function keys as the default you press Fn+Esc to lock as primary.

we may be getting a eval of this soon as well:
http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/pcs/NP940X3G-K04US-specs

 

[takeru]

Thinkpads today are not what they were a few years ago. I used to be a big fan of Thinkpads, but some of their recent design decisions are very questionable.

For example, many newer Thinkpads have the trackpoint buttons integrated into the touchpad. This is absolutely terrible from a usability standpoint and ruins one of the best features of a Thinkpad. I used a T431s recently and wanted to throw it at a wall because the trackpoint was so unusable.

lol yeah i noticed that too. if you hate that you'd probably hate the surface pro 2 keyboard's track buttons even worse. like a fuzzy rectangle on a flat surface that doesn't depress.

 

[Torn Mind]

Thinkpads today are not what they were a few years ago. I used to be a big fan of Thinkpads, but some of their recent design decisions are very questionable.

For example, many newer Thinkpads have the trackpoint buttons integrated into the touchpad. This is absolutely terrible from a usability standpoint and ruins one of the best features of a Thinkpad. I used a T431s recently and wanted to throw it at a wall because the trackpoint was so unusable.

That's a shame. I like the Trackpoint quite a bit, although I also like using a good Touchpad.

 

[007ELmO]

I use the trackpoint exclusively. The thinkpad keyboards are still the best desktoppy keyboards on any laptop. Combine that with battery life, total durability, reliability, and screen quality - it is a perfect work machine.

i have the surface 2, its type cover is acceptable to me but not as a main laptop. I am probably 80% speed of my thinkpad typing speed.

 

[996GT2]

lol yeah i noticed that too. if you hate that you'd probably hate the surface pro 2 keyboard's track buttons even worse. like a fuzzy rectangle on a flat surface that doesn't depress.

That's a shame. I like the Trackpoint quite a bit, although I also like using a good Touchpad.

Unfortunately, Lenovo is doing this on more and more of their Thinkpad models. They no longer have the 3 separate trackpoint buttons. There aren't even "buttons" anymore, because when you click them, the entire trackpad goes down. Being a long-time Thinkpad user, this is simply horrible to use.

Oh yeah, the touchpad also no longer has distinct buttons.

Here's what it looks like.

 

[gscone]

Been looking to spec out a new thinkpad X240, but mofo's are offering 8gb ram and some shitty options on processors, etc.

 

[BassBomb]

Ordered T540p a few weeks back and it came with a slight crack in it on a side.
I wasn't too impressed with the build quality. I have a Yoga 13 for comparison and my sister has a Zenbook Prime.

I feel like something must be wrong with this due to the plastic panel all around the keyboard having significant flex if you apply mild pressure. The keyboard feedback is phenomenal but some keys were sticking and sounded chunky. The touchpad also when you click it down has a chunky sound and feel to it.

I really love the finish on the outside, but the flex and all that bothers me significantly.

Currently trying to return the model due to the crack and re-order with an i7 (this laptop is for my dad anyways).


If you get a top end i7 "u - ultrabook ULV" CPU, how does it compare to a midrange i5 "normal mobile" ?

Lastly, is the X1 Carbon going to be replaced with a newer model including current gen cpus?

 

[chubbyfatazn]

Have/have had the following Thinkpads: 600E, 600X, T21, T40, T60, X60T, T61, R61, X61T, W500, X201, X220, X230, Edge 14, and SL400

I don't like the direction Lenovo's taking with the Thinkpad. The change from the traditional 7-row keyboard to the chiclet-style keyboard, the disappearance of the dedicated mouse buttons, BIOSs that are more heavily locked down (whitelists), and the more cheesy body design are my biggest gripes with the current generation. Hell, the keyboard change itself made me revert to my X220 for daily use. I've noticed a very discernable decrease in build quality from the *61 line and on (coincidentally the first line to be produced since the Lenovo acquisition). Plastic bits breaking off and problems with the screen are the issues I've experienced most.

In addition, what's with giving the X240 only single-channel memory support and the same crappy 1366x768 resolution?

Still, they're incredibly sturdy and very easily serviceable. I've replaced screens, motherboards, CPUs, pretty much every removable component there is in a laptop and I've never had an easier time working in a laptop than with the Thinkpads. Hell, IBM/Lenovo put out complete manuals for each Thinkpad telling you how to take the thing apart and put it back together.

Customer service is also top-notch. I've always gone through the Atlanta service base and they've been nothing but helpful when it came to fixing my crap under warranty. If it's a customer-replaceable unit, they'll two-day air you the part without requiring a credit card; they don't even care if they get the broken part back or not. The times I've needed to send my laptop in, everything was shipped next-day air and my laptop was fixed the day it arrived at the service depot.

So, while the physical aspects of the Thinkpad line have me willing to open up to more manufacturers, it's probably the intangible qualities that'll keep me coming back to them.

 

[GoSharks]

Unfortunately, Lenovo is doing this on more and more of their Thinkpad models. They no longer have the 3 separate trackpoint buttons. There aren't even "buttons" anymore, because when you click them, the entire trackpad goes down. Being a long-time Thinkpad user, this is simply horrible to use.

Oh yeah, the touchpad also no longer has distinct buttons.

I used a T23 from 2003-2006, a T60 from 2006-2013 and have just upgraded to a T431s. My brother had a T43 and now a T400. The T431s is by far the best built out of all of them, followed by the T43, T60, and T23.

The new trackpoint buttons took a day to get used to, not a big deal anymore. The trackpad is by far the best I've ever used and is actually worth using from time to time. Better than Apple trackpads since you can actually click at the top third of the pad.

The new island style keyboard is different, but is highly comparable in quality to the old style.

 

[crashtech]

I get a laugh out of people who look at my T510 and ask, "how OLD is that thing?," and I reply, "still under warranty!"

 

[007ELmO]

as far as i'm concerned, my w530 is a perfect laptop.

 

[rsutoratosu]

I just got my thinkpad yoga and x240. The touchpad isn't that hard to use, the old x220/x230 i had a huge problem with, the cursor keep shifting when you're trying to click.

the yoga is very servicable, ie drive upgrade at least, the x240 was a bitch to open up... they're all like the ultrabook style now, one huge panel on the bottom to open up.

 

[vbuggy]

our company is in the process of choosing and deploying new tablets/laptops within the company. i have the following on my desk:

X1 carbon touch
x240 with touchscreen
T440s with touchscreen
W540 with nontouchscreen (but our final version will have touchscreen)
thinkpad yoga
dell xps 12
panasonic cfc2
samsung 700T1C
surface pro 2

a fujitsu T904 is supposed to be arriving soon too to eval.

we've been a lenovo shop for years, but since the company is going full windows 8.1 company wide, we are trying to choose a windows 8.1 machine with touch capability. so many toys, so much work to choose.

I'd be really interested in comparative opinions for the T904.
No ZBook 14? Odd - that's got to be at least as compelling as any of those machines, if not far more so in many cases.

 

[alangrift]

Thinkpads are sooooo durable schools have them for five to six years before switching them out a lot. So imagine highschool and middle schoolers messing with it and dropping them and they still survive!!! It's unbelievable!!

 

[holden j caufield]

ooh my favorite subject. I help a relative with their company IT and I've seen probably 500 thinkpads in the last 15 years. I'm simply amazed by their durability, design (not as impressed recently), support (still IBM last time I checked). I've had about 3 problems (and 2 of them were the nvidia vid chip problem so not really lenovos fault).

Ever since they went to the chiclet keyboard redesign I've tried several other laptops and keep coming back to w520 and t420, t420s. IMO they offer the same great design, large ram capability, good virtualization options, keyboard/trackpoint, sandy bridge is fairly cool, fast (I feel much difference between sandy and ivy, haswell except for heat), good battery life.

IMO from a productivity stand point nothing beats the sandy bridge thinkpad line.

 

[takeru]

I'd be really interested in comparative opinions for the T904.
No ZBook 14? Odd - that's got to be at least as compelling as any of those machines, if not far more so in many cases.

still no T904 yet. an HP Revolve 810 G2 arrived though. it has a nice texture to it, feels pretty solid.

in the middle of a xp to windows 8.1 migration at the moment with sccm 2012 with user state migration. really wish surface pro 2's had a ethernet jack... at least 3 models have been confirmed now for use. W540's for power users, T440s for standard users, X240's for mobile users. not counting all the other random units from manufacturers (like my list above) they were testing up to this point for random departments that "just want it". marketing department, for example, want the surface pro 2's into the new year i know they will expect more models to eval for the next POC that started, even though the current POC didn't even finish yet. lol

 

[lightningbaron]

ThinkPad T series are generally reliable, been using it since the T20. Hoping to get one more year out of the T420 before I get a replacement.

I typically recommend the ThinkPad T series or X series if someone is looking to buy a laptop for work purposes.

 

[jsedlak]

I dislike my T430 for the sole reason that the Ctrl is where the Fn key should be, and the Fn where the Ctrl key should be!

 

[LuNoTiCK]

Have an X230 (I always only considered the T series a real thinkpad), but I'm not too pleased with mine. Broke several times under warranty including the motherboard fried as did the hard drive. Lenovo repaired it, and it said the windows is not genuine, it's just a complete piece of crap.