Question are video card prices headed down yet?

[beginner99]

Do you mean most US gamers can afford a $2000 GPU as an expense that "barely matters"?

Not American but from what I gather housing costs and healthcare are a huge issue as well. So form that view point for many yes the monthly expenses will be so high it would not matter that much. But given the average savings is like 5k, for just as many it will never be possible. Upper-middle class: yes, lower: no.

As much as I dislike the 4070ti release, why would anyone pay $800 for a used power-hog like the 3090? As horrible value as the 4070ti is, its probably a better value than a used 3090 @ $800.

Since I'm in this market right now, yeah I will wait and see how it develops. 3900s go for around 750-800 here used while cheapest 4070 TI are $950. The core difference is the vram which makes the 4070 TI as seen in reviews already partially obsolete on arrival. only 12 Gb fpr $950 is tough to swallow.

 

[mastertech01]

As the 40 series slowly come aboard they are looking like better buys than used 3080 and 3090. Maybe I will just let those greedy 30 series owners eat them after all.

 

[dlerious]

Not American but from what I gather housing costs and healthcare are a huge issue as well. So form that view point for many yes the monthly expenses will be so high it would not matter that much. But given the average savings is like 5k, for just as many it will never be possible. Upper-middle class: yes, lower: no.

42% of Americans have less than $1000 according to the article below. It also says 49% couldn't handle $400 hospital bill.

20+ Shocking American Savings Statistics [2023]: Average Personal Savings Accounts, Demographics, And Facts - Zippia

Research Summary: Whether you’re a home-owner, renting, or living with family members, nearly every American struggles with saving their hard-earned cash. In fact, debt has become a way of life for most of us, ensuring that our savings are eaten away by monthly payments. But, what is the average...

www.zippia.com

 

[igor_kavinski]

Maybe I will just let those greedy 30 series owners eat them after all.

Yeah. 4060 Ti 12 or 16GB from a decent AIB should be a good long term investment for someone with moderate gaming needs. It would also consume less power and get supported the longest by Nvidia.

 

[VirtualLarry]

NotAnAppleFan suspects price-fixing.

 

[Aapje]

NotAnAppleFan suspects price-fixing.

At the very least this is a non-functional market right now where margins are way too high.

 

[beginner99]

Do we have any timelines of further releases eg 4070, 4060 (Ti) and 7800 (XT) and 7700 (XT)? At least for AMD i think nothing is known, more like H2 2023, what about Nvidia?

 

[Aapje]

In Nvidia's case it depends on how the 3000-stock is going, which we don't know. For AMD, we may need to wait until they fix N31, but we don't know either.

 

[jpiniero]

Do we have any timelines of further releases eg 4070, 4060 (Ti) and 7800 (XT) and 7700 (XT)? At least for AMD i think nothing is known, more like H2 2023, what about Nvidia?

Recent rumors suggest that the 4070 will be some time in Q2 but not definitive. The 4060 Ti maybe a month or two after the 4070.

Anything else on desktop, who knows or even might be cancelled.

Edit: Oh and the 4070 has the same core count as the 3070 (5888) and the 4060 Ti less than the 3060 Ti (4864 vs 4352). Both will still be faster I imagine.

 

[fleshconsumed]

NotAnAppleFan suspects price-fixing.

I don't think there is intentional price fixing between nvidia and AMD in the true sense of the word, but nvidia definitely priced 40 series to sell the 30. AMD responded in kind because why wouldn't they? I thought there would be a flood of videocards just like in 18, but I was wrong. Nvidia played this "beautifully" by hiking up 40 series prices to the tilt.

Sad situation for pc enthusiasts all around. I used to upgrade more often at the sweet $300 price point as that used to be the midrange sweet spot that had the highest perf/$ metric and was still fast enough to play newest games if you toned down the settings a bit. At that point it was more like a hobby, I'd get a shiny new toy to play with every so often just for the fun of it, I don't do that anymore, as of late it's become a strategic decision of how reasonable the pricing is based on mm^2 (4080/4070ti is downright horrid) and do I need to upgrade or does my current card handle everything I play? I got 3070fe at the height of the pandemic 2 years ago because that's the only thing I could get and because I could offset the cost by mining, 8GB is definitely a problem, but 40 series/N3x value proposition is total crap so I'll try to hold out till nvidia/amd brings something reasonable to the market, or till my 3070 can't play what I want.

The nvidia 20 series was also a stinker, but 30 was alright, relatively speaking (ot at least it would have been if not for the mining boom). Hopefully history repeats itself and 50 series/N4x will be more reasonably priced with mining solidly out of the picture.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I don't think there is intentional price fixing between nvidia and AMD in the true sense of the word, but nvidia definitely priced 40 series to sell the 30. AMD responded in kind because why wouldn't they? I thought there would be a flood of videocards just like in 18, but I was wrong. Nvidia played this "beautifully" by hiking up 40 series prices to the tilt.

I disagree. 40 Series wasn't priced to sell 30 series. NVidia priced 40 series to generate the margins they wanted. AMD likes healthy margins too so they matched pricing more or less like they always do. Both AMD and NVidia likely feel a bit burned by smaller margins on previous generation, only to see Scalpers get rich during the mining boom.

Higher end 30 series was cleared with big price cuts (up to $1000 off back in early August), long before 40 series was announced.

 

[CP5670]

I think the reason the high end prices have gone up so much is that the desktop PC has become a luxury product, like luxury cars. It's not about production costs or inflation. The desktop PC itself is now a niche luxury good for gamers and content creators. Most people now only use phones and laptops, which are now the utility goods that everyone "needs." Luxury goods are always expensive and never "necessary," and that has never been the point of them. PC hardware is still way cheaper than all kinds of other luxury goods out there.

Even for gamers, you can get a used 1080ti for $200-ish that is still a perfectly good card at lower resolutions/medium settings. As long as there are still good choices in this price range, I don't see any problem.

 

[fleshconsumed]

I disagree. 40 Series wasn't priced to sell 30 series. NVidia priced 40 series to generate the margins they wanted. AMD likes healthy margins too so they matched pricing more or less like they always do. Both AMD and NVidia likely feel a bit burned by smaller margins on previous generation, only to see Scalpers get rich during the mining boom.

Higher end 30 series was cleared with big price cuts (up to $1000 off back in early August), long before 40 series was announced.

I think it's both, to sell remaining 30 stock and to keep margins by avoiding price spiral. Nvidia pricing 40 series the way they did was the only way to avoid price spiral they saw in 18. If they priced 40 series any lower it would instantly create used card "flood" from both miners and gamers alike making existing 30 series stock unsellable and putting even more downward pressure on 40 series pricing. This way nvidia gets to keep their margins on the 40 series and gets to sell remaining 30 series stock. Yes, the 40 series sales suffer due to high price, but it's the best worst option nvidia had to avoid '18 repeat and it looks like it worked.

At this point in time I think 40 series/N3x are a bust so to say, they're priced way too high, and I don't see that changing anytime in the near future. Nvidia cannot afford to lower the price too soon if they want to avoid the price spiral. In 2 years the mining should be well behind us and nvidia could bring the price of the 50 series down to a more reasonable level. Whether or not they choose to do so is up to anyone's guess.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Nvidia pricing 40 series the way they did was the only way to avoid price spiral they saw in 18.

What pricing spiral? 40 series, is almost a carbon copy of 20 series release. Both released right after a mining bust.

There was no spiral. 20 Series prices came in high, and stayed high.

 

[jpiniero]

as of late it's become a strategic decision of how reasonable the pricing is based on mm^2 (4080/4070ti is downright horrid)

Can't really do that when the wafers are likely double or more the price.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

The cheap stuff is better now than ever.

Not sure if srs. The $180 RX 6500 XT is literally worse than the RX 570 that was $120 three years ago if you're on Intel 10th gen or older or Ryzen 2000 series or older, and it's only around 10% better at 50% higher price than that RX 570 if you do have PCIE-4.0. Meanwhile the budget gpu on the Nvidia side is the $160 GTX 1650 that is worse than the RX 570. Or the somehow still a thing $155 GTX 1050 Ti that's even worse.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Even for gamers, you can get a used 1080ti for $200-ish that is still a perfectly good card at lower resolutions/medium settings.

You'd be buying a six year old card that has gone through two mining booms and they're more like $230 and up (not counting tax) on ebay.

 

[gdansk]

Seems like new GPU prices bottomed out in late November. And have been on the rise since then.

 

[DooKey]

Not sure if srs. The $180 RX 6500 XT is literally worse than the RX 570 that was $120 three years ago if you're on Intel 10th gen or older or Ryzen 2000 series or older, and it's only around 10% better at 50% higher price than that RX 570 if you do have PCIE-4.0. Meanwhile the budget gpu on the Nvidia side is the $160 GTX 1650 that is worse than the RX 570. Or the somehow still a thing $155 GTX 1050 Ti that's even worse.

It depends on your definition of cheap. I consider anything under $350 or so cheap.

 

[amenx]

Bit surprised many ppl still dont make the connection between supply and demand. Ada and RDNA 3 inventory has been abysmal since they were launched. Purposely so to clear out old stocks. In weeks or a few months, there will be tons of cards pouring in that will depress prices significantly. Almost certain of it.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Not sure if srs. The $180 RX 6500 XT is literally worse than the RX 570 that was $120 three years ago if you're on Intel 10th gen or older or Ryzen 2000 series or older, and it's only around 10% better at 50% higher price than that RX 570 if you do have PCIE-4.0. Meanwhile the budget gpu on the Nvidia side is the $160 GTX 1650 that is worse than the RX 570. Or the somehow still a thing $155 GTX 1050 Ti that's even worse.

As someone looking at cards near the bottom, it's very grim at $200 or less ($300 CDN or less). Things really haven't improved since the RX 480, from 2016, from 6 years, and several GPU generations ago.

Which is why I laugh when people complain like it's the end of PC gaming when higher end cards only get a small perf/$ upgrade in one generation

Try no upgrade at all for 3+ generations.

 

[gdansk]

Bit surprised many ppl still dont make the connection between supply and demand. Ada and RDNA 3 inventory has been abysmal since they were launched. Purposely so to clear out old stocks. In weeks or a few months, there will be tons of cards pouring in that will depress prices significantly. Almost certain of it.

You're saying Ada and RDNA 3 will drop in price? Because the inventory of the old cards seems to be cleared up now.

 

[gdansk]

As someone looking at cards near the bottom, it's very grim at $200 or less ($300 CDN or less). Things really haven't improved since the RX 480, from 2016, from 6 years, and several GPU generations ago.

Which is why I laugh when people complain like it's the end of PC gaming when higher end cards only get a small perf/$ upgrade in one generation

Try no upgrade at all for 3+ generations.

Just another symptom of PC gaming's murder. Pascal and Polaris were the last time it was alive.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Bit surprised many ppl still dont make the connection between supply and demand. Ada and RDNA 3 inventory has been abysmal since they were launched. Purposely so to clear out old stocks. In weeks or a few months, there will be tons of cards pouring in that will depress prices significantly. Almost certain of it.

Not sure where you get that idea of limited stock. 4080, 7900 XT have more or less been in stock continuously. 4070 Ti shipped in mass quantities. Individual stores report having hundreds of 70 Ti cards in stock.

4090, 7900XTX sold out, that was still over a hundred thousand cards. Wealthy people just want Halo cards.

 

[CP5670]

You'd be buying a six year old card that has gone through two mining booms and they're more like $230 and up (not counting tax) on ebay.

You're right that they are more like $230, but it's still a lot of power at that price. That six year old card can still handle most games fine as long as you don't turn up all the settings and resolution. Game graphics haven't improved much in that period except for things like RT.

It looks like a used 5700XT is even less at $160-ish and generally similar in performance, although it has less memory.