Are we in seriously deep doo doo?

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drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
OK, have you found something for them to do? How are you going to pay for them to do that without stimulus?

They can build the wall between Mexico and the US.

They're a labor source we're already paying, and according to you they actually really truely do want to work. Win-win for everyone involved.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
They can build the wall between Mexico and the US.

They're a labor source we're already paying, and according to you they actually really truely do want to work. Win-win for everyone involved.

Broken record?
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
Republicans want to take money OUT of stimulus to pay for unemployment. That's why they are blocking the unemployment bill.

No, Republicans don't want to authorize any more spending, past the ridiculous amounts of spending that have already been authorized. Stimulus has not worked the way it's been done, so why waste the money twice when you can just use the already wasted money.

Small businesses drive the economy and employ the majority of domestic workers. For stimulus to have worked, it needed to target small businesses. It didn't. As such, it failed to do anything constructive and unemployment is still rising. Paying people to continue to sit on their asses isn't going to fix that under any circumstances.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
Broken record?

You asked them what we could have them do. I gave a perfectly reasonable and appropriate solution.

Of course, you are morally against reasonable solutions so I should have expected this as the response.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
So you would rather use the money for stimulus to hire people to do infrastructure projects instead of paying them unemployment?
That is the opposite of what Republicans want to do, which is take money out of stimulus to pay for unemployment.

Ok, I'm pretty exhausted, so maybe I'm not understanding you here. I'm not a Republican. I don't know why you keep bringing that into the conversation.

I'm not for hiring these people to do infrastructure projects. Don't need to. We've got tons of people collecting unemployment. We're paying them to do nothing.

If we're going to continue paying Unemployment for so long, I'd rather pay them to do whatever it is we need to do and have them do it, than pay them to sit at home and do nothing.

Does what I'm saying make or not make sense to you?

Chuck
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
No, Republicans don't want to authorize any more spending, past the ridiculous amounts of spending that have already been authorized. Stimulus has not worked the way it's been done, so why waste the money twice when you can just use the already wasted money.

Small businesses drive the economy and employ the majority of domestic workers. For stimulus to have worked, it needed to target small businesses. It didn't. As such, it failed to do anything constructive and unemployment is still rising. Paying people to continue to sit on their asses isn't going to fix that under any circumstances.

They want to pay for unemployment by taking money out of stimulus. So basically they will create more unemployed to pay for unemployment. That is their brilliant plan.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Ok, I'm pretty exhausted, so maybe I'm not understanding you here. I'm not a Republican. I don't know why you keep bringing that into the conversation.

I'm not for hiring these people to do infrastructure projects. Don't need to. We've got tons of people collecting unemployment. We're paying them to do nothing.

If we're going to continue paying Unemployment for so long, I'd rather pay them to do whatever it is we need to do and have them do it, than pay them to sit at home and do nothing.

Does what I'm saying make or not make sense to you?

Chuck

Does it make sense to you is a better question.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
They want to pay for unemployment by taking money out of stimulus. So basically they will create more unemployed to pay for unemployment. That is their brilliant plan.

Stimulus isn't keeping people employed. So...no, they don't. They want to use already authorized money to pay for people to sit on their asses and do nothing, rather than authorize new money to pay for people to sit on their asses and do nothing.

Stimulus is doing one thing and one thing only: keeping Washington's cronies' pockets full. If stimulus had been designed to work, it would have targeted small businesses with loans and contracts to encourage growth in the sector that employs the largest majority of US workers.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
All of this is really besides the point, anyway. The money has to come from somewhere, and it's going to come from the middle class. If you take money from the middle class and give it to the lower class, are you really accomplishing anything? Incremental purchases the middle class might make are far larger (thus more money moves through the economy) than anything the lower class is buying with their unemployment. And, after administration costs, you're running a net negative anyway.

The economy would be more stimulated by letting the middle class keep their money and make bigger purchases.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Stimulus isn't keeping people employed. So...no, they don't.
Yes it is actually keeping people employed. When you see a sign that says "funded by American Recovery and Reinvestment Act" all those jobs are paid for by the stimulus. Even got a letter from my college engineering dept saying they were able to keep more researches employed when private funding fell due to this act. So inform yourself before you make baseless claims.
They want to use already authorized money to pay for people to sit on their asses and do nothing, rather than authorize new money to pay for people to sit on their asses and do nothing.
Stimulus is doing one thing and one thing only: keeping Washington's cronies' pockets full. If stimulus had been designed to work, it would have targeted small businesses with loans and contracts to encourage growth in the sector that employs the largest majority of US workers.
No, they want to use money that is authorized to pay for people to do work and use it to pay for people to sit on their asses and do nothing. I am sure all those people whose jobs were saved by stimulus money don't appreciate being called Washington's cronies.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
Yes it is actually keeping people employed. When you see a sign that says "funded by American Recovery and Reinvestment Act" all those jobs are paid for by the stimulus. Even got a letter from my college engineering dept saying they were able to keep more researches employed when private funding fell due to this act. So inform yourself before you make baseless claims.

No, they want to use money that is authorized to pay for people to do work and use it to pay for people to sit on their asses and do nothing. I am sure all those people whose jobs were saved by stimulus money don't appreciate being called Washington's cronies.

I guess if Obama says it enough, it must be true.

I conceed to your (absolutely proofless and baseless) assertion that $1T in government money and taxes on the middle class did more good than harm.

(Isn't this what the sheeple are saying now-adays? Personally, I think that letting the middle class keep that $1T would have been way more useful to the economy...but...that's just me, I guess.)
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
I guess if Obama says it enough, it must be true.

I conceed to your (absolutely proofless and baseless) assertion that $1T in government money and taxes on the middle class did more good than harm.

(Isn't this what the sheeple are saying now-adays? Personally, I think that letting the middle class keep that $1T would have been way more useful to the economy...but...that's just me, I guess.)

Not much I can do about your willful ignorance.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Republicans will do anything, screw how ever many people it takes to avoid doing the obvious, which is to raise taxes, particularly on the financial elite.

The weirdest thing abut the current situation is that we're borrowing money to do what needs to be done, and the reason we're doing that is because the people who are supposed to be investing in the economy aren't- they're buying govt bonds instead.

The guys at the top really are in the catbird seat at this point, quite by design. They have no incentive to invest when their money gains value stuffed into their mattresses, which is what a deflationary spiral achieves. Income and wealth have become so concentrated that the investor class suffers no personal hardship at all if their incomes drop substantially. They can afford to let it all fall down, then drive very hard bargains for distressed assets.

They're in no mood to take risks, and the govt borrowing from them disincentivizes them even further.

The only way to break that cycle is to raise taxes at the top while creating tax incentives for honest job creation.

It's not like they'll starve, obviously, or that the kids won't go to Harvard, either. If we accounted for inflation and raised tax rates to the level they were in 1980, pre-Reagan, we'd go a long way to solving our fiscal problems.

The financial elite won't have as much to invest? They're not investing in America, anyway, so the point is moot...
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,956
137
106
the US is experiencing a structural break in the jobs market. 8 million jobs have been lost and won't return according to bidden. (obama's purposeful leak) I don't know what you's guys are going to do. the 99'ers are about to exhaust their unemployment which will add to the wandering hopeless looking for a job.
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
4,868
1
0
Stimulus isn't keeping people employed. So...no, they don't. They want to use already authorized money to pay for people to sit on their asses and do nothing, rather than authorize new money to pay for people to sit on their asses and do nothing.

Stimulus is doing one thing and one thing only: keeping Washington's cronies' pockets full. If stimulus had been designed to work, it would have targeted small businesses with loans and contracts to encourage growth in the sector that employs the largest majority of US workers.

I disagree, I have been involved in many construction projects the last 18 mths or so that are stimulus funded.

All gov't projects that take federal money to improve or create state, federal and county buildings.

This keeps workers employed, improves infastructure, and gives private small business their piece of the pie.

You want to take my money and hand it to a private business on the chance that they will find a customer rather than take a vacation.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Republicans will do anything, screw how ever many people it takes to avoid doing the obvious, which is to raise taxes, particularly on the financial elite.

The weirdest thing abut the current situation is that we're borrowing money to do what needs to be done, and the reason we're doing that is because the people who are supposed to be investing in the economy aren't- they're buying govt bonds instead.

The guys at the top really are in the catbird seat at this point, quite by design. They have no incentive to invest when their money gains value stuffed into their mattresses, which is what a deflationary spiral achieves. Income and wealth have become so concentrated that the investor class suffers no personal hardship at all if their incomes drop substantially. They can afford to let it all fall down, then drive very hard bargains for distressed assets.

They're in no mood to take risks, and the govt borrowing from them disincentivizes them even further.

The only way to break that cycle is to raise taxes at the top while creating tax incentives for honest job creation.

It's not like they'll starve, obviously, or that the kids won't go to Harvard, either. If we accounted for inflation and raised tax rates to the level they were in 1980, pre-Reagan, we'd go a long way to solving our fiscal problems.

The financial elite won't have as much to invest? They're not investing in America, anyway, so the point is moot...

So......

Your answer to the wealthy saving their money in mattresses instead of investing is to tax them at HIGHER rates when they do invest?

Do you think before you speak?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
So......

Your answer to the wealthy saving their money in mattresses instead of investing is to tax them at HIGHER rates when they do invest?

Do you think before you speak?

Oh, please. It's not like they can dis-invest en masse- whatever one sells another will buy.

And that's only half of what I offered, anyway...

Perhaps you could take off the ideological blinders, actually read everything that's offered before you post...
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
Watch the show "Wind at your Back". It is based on survival during the depression.

You can not kill american ingenuity. During the depression banks failed and people did not get loans, because they could not. So they just did without. It is a trip down memory lane. Start paying off your debts.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Watch the show "Wind at your Back". It is based on survival during the depression.

You can not kill american ingenuity. During the depression banks failed and people did not get loans, because they could not. So they just did without. It is a trip down memory lane. Start paying off your debts.

Waxing nostalgic about misery?
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
Does it make sense to you is a better question.

Yes, it makes sense, because if I pay an unemployed person to do something I'm paying far less than had I hired them to do it. Plus I'm not reinforcing them sitting around just getting paid, they're out there having to sweat to make their buck.

If I'm going to go into massive debt, at least getting something for my money rather than absolutely nothing can happen.

Isn't this Commom Sense?

Chuck
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,505
27,801
136
I guess if Obama says it enough, it must be true.

I conceed to your (absolutely proofless and baseless) assertion that $1T in government money and taxes on the middle class did more good than harm.

(Isn't this what the sheeple are saying now-adays? Personally, I think that letting the middle class keep that $1T would have been way more useful to the economy...but...that's just me, I guess.)

An important point here: The $1T didn't come from the middle class (not yet anyway), it came from borrowing and money printing. Print money=> loan to banks at 0%=> banks loan money back to gov at 3%=> gov spends on stimulus. This method of money laundering creates the perception that there is no funding crisis at the treasury. Should the banks stop buying treasuries with their cheap government furnished money you can bet the 0% loans will end quickly. So as long as the print/handout/loan/stimulate cycle continues, the stimulus really is pumping new money into the economy, not simply diverted funds.

Whether the middle class ends up paying the bill when it comes due is up to the middle class. We can vote for politicians who will treat capital gains as regular income, re-instate the inheritance tax, and re-instate a more progressive tax structure if we wish to avoid paying this bill.
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Yes, it makes sense, because if I pay an unemployed person to do something I'm paying far less than had I hired them to do it. Plus I'm not reinforcing them sitting around just getting paid, they're out there having to sweat to make their buck.

If I'm going to go into massive debt, at least getting something for my money rather than absolutely nothing can happen.

Isn't this Commom Sense?

Chuck

Are you not familiar with what "unemployment" is? The "un" part, FYI, indicates absence of "employment."
Do you not understand that unemployment is money that is paid someone to just sit around, while stimulus money is used to hire them to do a job? Moving funds from stimulus to unemployment is going to result with more people sitting around and fewer working.
 
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