Are we viewing Obama through rose tinted glasses?

[Lash444]

You guys read a lot of garbage.

Don't forget that Obama beat Hillary in 2008. You think the reason that Obama won, was because he was black? Clinton was supposed to win then, and slowly looks to be losing ground to Sanders now. By your logic, Clinton should win this election by a landslide. Well she is losing ground, and is going to lose to another old white guy. So what is your excuse going to be then? Last I checked ~50% of the population is female. I don't think people were more excited to vote the first black man into office over a woman, but you keep reading your anti-Muslim propaganda.

Obama gave way to the rise of ISIS? Sorry, but that demon isn't on the back's of Obama supporters. If you put your vote in for G.W., stand up and take partial credit for screwing the rest of the planet over on that one. Way to go, jackasses.

I don't think his foreign policy choices will go down as blunders. Getting involved with a substantial number of boots on the ground in Syria would have been a blunder. If we can dodge that it would be win.

Now on his record of liberties, I am in agreement. But make no mistake that Congress wanted it all as well. All those fools need to have their bags packed.

 

[Lash444]

^ This, very much this.
It's almost guaranteed that the next President is "worse" than Obama could ever hope to be.

Well duh. You know the next President is going to be a Democrat. That is already decided. And when that President is going to be replaced, it is more than likely going to be another Democrat again.

Your propaganda is already written. Every successive President is going to be worse than the previous, provided they are a Democrat. That much we know.

Now ask a Democrat what the likelihood of a Republican being worse than Bush is. Then tell us who you think can't think rationally/level-headed.

 

[HumblePie]

Here is my take on Obama...

He's a lawyer at heart and not a statesman.

Even the laws he helped draft, such as the ACA, had massive holes in it because that is what lawyers do. They draft laws to leave wiggle room on purpose. There are several things I agree with what Obama has done in office and many more I do not when looking objectively. I'll try to compile a short list of the things I personally care about or may affect me.

The Good

1) Had setup the process to improve the VA. Only time will tell if this actually pans out though.

2) Allowed for new stem cell research by repealing Bush's executive order

3) Open dialog back up with Cuba. Yet hasn't actually committed to doing anything stupid with them yet. So for now it's in the good category.

4) Changed some massive credit card laws that allowed some credit card company scams to happen in the past without reprisal.

5) Cash for Clunkers was great while it lasted. It did get some bad shaped cars off the road.

6) Some student loan law changes to make paying back student loans easier

7) Tackled a bit of the Swiss bank offshore tax evasion problem we have. I know it didn't go far enough and it may have been a bit of lip service for how much was actually done to curb offshore tax evasion, but it was a start.

8) Extended COBRA

9) has pardoned several criminals that were wrongfully locked up in federal prisons.

The Bad

1) ACA = good in theory, bad in execution so far. I know many here were really under the assumption that anything, even a bad bill, is better than nothing so long as it can be patched. The problem with that idea is that the problems become ingrained and institutionalized over time and that makes fixing problems with a bill that much harder later. Especially with a dysfunctional government.

2) Promised to end the war in the middle east... but doesn't have the balls to do it the right way. Wars are because diplomacy failed and the person(s) on the other side of the conflict can no longer be reasoned with. When those same person(s) only goal and desire in life is your utter destruction, the only truly humane thing to do in the end is strike hard, strike fast, and utterly destroy the opposition in a war. That is war. It's not fun, it's not pretty, and people are going to die. Innocents will be harmed. Right now ISIS has declared war on the world and their formation was a direct result of the actions of both Bush and Obama in the middle east from Iraq to Afghanistan. Don't seek out war, but if troubles comes to find you then deal with swiftly. In the end it's the most merciful thing to do. Remember the Roman lessons of Carthage. If you let a war like relation with another country fester, they will only continue to attack over and over again until they win.

3) Better environment stewardship lip service. He is trying I think to improve the global environment and business practices I believe. Just hasn't done much and still pays lip service to failed plans such as cap and trade.

4) Pushing for innane gun control laws that he tries to convince others are "common sense" laws.

5) His responses to some of the initial episodes of the BLM movement like calling Trayvon Martin a son he never had. A president shouldn't utter anything like that until they have all the facts, because I do not want any president of mine trying to state he would like to have a son who was a bully, owned illegal weapons, and did drugs. He made similar remarks on other episodes before he finally clammed up. Still I think in his heart of hearts he doesn't believe that what he did was wrong as president in this matter.

6) Has kept and even strengthened federal policies that allow for the "war" on marijuana. Despite claiming he used the stuff himself in his past.

7) Bungled the enforcement of the cleanup of the BP oil spill.

8) Allowed the NSA to keep spying on Americans with shady practices. Then his handling of the Snowden whistleblowing was atrocious.

9) Caved in to terrorists demands by releasing 5 taliban terrorist prisoners in exchange for Bowe Bergdhal. Who is now standing trial for treason by the military for his desertion during war time. For which Obama has tried to block since he was dumb enough to the exchange and then initially celebrate his return like a returning hero.

10) Has yet to reign Hillary Clinton in on her lying and shady crap she has recently pulled in regards to benghazi and her use of a private email server for official government work.

11) Refuses to do his job in regards to immigration control per the laws on the books. As the executive wing of the government, his main function is execution of those laws. Not to do as he pleases because he disagrees with the laws as they are currently written. I have no problem with him to push for changes to the laws, but his refusal to do his job properly as it stands is wrong.

 

[HumblePie]

Interesting introspective. A few points:
Even though foreign policy is the main area where a President has the most discretion and the fewest limits, it's also the least predictable since it directly involves the whole world.

No one's Middle East policy works. It's a region full of insane and barely civilized people.

The economy is cyclic, and it's where a President has the very least control.

The best measures of a President are how he or she reacts to crisis and what they do with their Executive Orders and agencies. Even with the latter, a President has limited control, so Obama didn't necessarily order arming Mexican drug cartels or IRS discrimination against conservative groups. Even though he did provide cover for both, he also knows that they will be used against him if he admits they were bad things.

Obama's terrible record on privacy is his own, but also should be evaluated as being in line with every other likely President.

In the end, Obama was elected solely for his skin color and his ability to read a TelePrompTer. He had zero life accomplishments beyond getting himself elected and becoming reasonably wealthy despite relatively low paid public service jobs (which is the rule rather than the exception.) By that standard, he's been a pretty decent President, becoming much more in the office than when he entered it.

Agreed, but I did a list of actual actions he was directly responsible for while in office myself for both good and bad.

 

[Jaskalas]

Well duh. You know the next President is going to be a Democrat. That is already decided. And when that President is going to be replaced, it is more than likely going to be another Democrat again.

Your propaganda is already written. Every successive President is going to be worse than the previous, provided they are a Democrat. That much we know.

Now ask a Democrat what the likelihood of a Republican being worse than Bush is. Then tell us who you think can't think rationally/level-headed.

Your partisan drivel doesn't hold a candle to Genx87's substantive post.
If you gave a damn about forum participation you would have read his condemnation of the Presidential candidates, to which I gave my nod.

 

[werepossum]

I'm disappointed in him personally. He's basically gone back on his defending freedom and privacy against so called government protection for the inverse, becoming the NSA's biggest advocate. He kept the Patriot act law when he could have just let it fizzle. (True to form, Republicans, unable to criticize him for it being a Republican idea, criticize instead the way in which he signed it. The way he used the fucking pen to sign the damn thing...ugh.)

SNIP

That's the one area where Obama absolutely could have shone, had he been willing to pay the political price. But let's be realistic, any President willing to stop the surveillance programs will be slammed as being soft on terror. It will cost political capital, and likely not survive past his or her term in office. That's no excuse, but it is valuable context.

More trends that Obama didn't start and didn't change.

After being swept into office promising "Hope and Change" and an end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Obama has morphed into a just another helpless White House occupant.

You are welcome to your opinion. I just find it distasteful for the most powerful man in the world to embrace victimhood.

Uno

I don't think Obama has embraced victimhood at all. To the contrary, it seems to me that he has a vastly overrated opinion of himself, even declaring that he rates himself the fourth best President ever. (Although to be fair, he might have misspoken and meant to say fourth rate.) But as Spungo so well pointed out, we tend to have a vastly overstated idea of a President's power. Changing our entire society is beyond the power of any President. Even Reagan, who had a talent for going directly to the American people, could not engineer such a change. It can only come from the people. If and when we decide that good jobs are more desirable than cheap Chinese imported consumer goods, we'll have a President who makes that happen and the middle class will again broaden. When the people lead, the leaders follow.

I wish I had more time...the first failure that comes to mind is his failed "reset" strategy with Russia which effectively exposed his naivete when he unilaterally threw a NATO ally under the bus without getting anything in return except Putin's ever growing disrespect. Also, Libya was a huge failure using most any metric you care to use...our actions have significantly destabilized the region which resulted in massive human suffering and provided a new safe haven for terrorists. I hear that ISIS is now training pilots there as well...he has consistently underestimated ISIS despite all the evidence. His plan to deal with ISIS has not and will not accomplish his stated goals. He appears to view the world rather simplistically, rather than how it actually is. These and many other missteps such as the red line, failing to leave an Iraq residual presence, failed Syria strategy, his highly questionable Iran nuclear negotiations, and the Afghanistan surge debacle all demonstrate his naivete and profound lack of competence. As if this isn't enough, his lack of leadership on the world stage reflects poorly on his presidency and our country. The next President of this country will inherent a mess that rivals the one Obama himself inherited.

With all that except failing to leave an Iraq residual presence, I agree. The Iraqi government insisted that any American forces left must be under Iraqi law and authority. No President could or should agree to that. It's the same deal that was made to Bush. Certainly we had the power to ignore their demands, but to do so would have made liberating them a sham. Same applies to arming ISIS; we HAD to arm the Iraqi army, but we have no way to make them fight. To a great extent this is an extension of the damage done by Bush and Bremer when they disbanded the Iraqi army - the heart of any army is its non-coms, and you just cannot produce good non-coms quickly from whole cloth. It's difficult enough within an existing system. Shit, it's difficult enough just keeping up with turn-over.

For the other, I think the next President of this country will make the same dog's breakfast that Obama made, and pretty much Bush before him. Obama broke two nations and Bush built two nations, but in the end Iraq is not recognizably different from Syria today in spite of us spending hundreds of billions building it. It's inherent to the region.

 

[Jhhnn]

I wish I had more time...the first failure that comes to mind is his failed "reset" strategy with Russia which effectively exposed his naivete when he unilaterally threw a NATO ally under the bus without getting anything in return except Putin's ever growing disrespect.

"Nato ally" is pure bullshit. If that's what happened in Ukraine, then the same thing happened in Georgia in 2008.

Oh, I forgot. Facts don't matter. Only spin matters.

 

[Moonbeam]

TheSiege........ As you can see people have a multitude of opinions about Obama. I look at them in a state of good cheer. People want Obama to be this or that, to solve this or that problem, to tackle this or that issue in this or that manner.

But I say the war is within, and Obama has nothing at all to do with anything. All of my desires dreams and hopes are internally generated and thus the solution is also within. This is what Jihad really means, the war to extinguish the self. If you look to the external world to solve your problems, you will find nothing but misery. Pease can only be had by surrender to what is. Unless the dreamer awakens, the world is but a machine and all that occurs happens like tick tock. Relax and be happy.

 

[OverVolt]

Whenever I hear Obama speak I agree with him 100%. He is very intelligent and has great ideas.

I can't decide if its one of two things:

- He says one thing and does another.

OR

- Due to the nature of politics by the time he gets what he wants passed into law its so full of compromises it practically does the opposite of what he intended.

 

[werepossum]

Here is my take on Obama...

He's a lawyer at heart and not a statesman.

Even the laws he helped draft, such as the ACA, had massive holes in it because that is what lawyers do. They draft laws to leave wiggle room on purpose. There are several things I agree with what Obama has done in office and many more I do not when looking objectively. I'll try to compile a short list of the things I personally care about or may affect me.

The Good

1) Had setup the process to improve the VA. Only time will tell if this actually pans out though.

2) Allowed for new stem cell research by repealing Bush's executive order

3) Open dialog back up with Cuba. Yet hasn't actually committed to doing anything stupid with them yet. So for now it's in the good category.

4) Changed some massive credit card laws that allowed some credit card company scams to happen in the past without reprisal.

5) Cash for Clunkers was great while it lasted. And did some bad shaped cars off the road.

6) Some student loan law changes to make paying back student loans easier

7) Tackled a bit of the Swiss bank offshore tax evasion problem we have. I know it didn't go far enough and it may have been a bit of lip service for how much was actually done to curb offshore tax evasion, but it was a start.

8) Extended COBRA

9) has pardoned several criminals that were wrongfully locked up in federal prisons.

The Bad

1) ACA = good in theory, bad in execution so far. I know many here were really under the assumption that anything, even a bad bill, is better than nothing so long as it can be patched. The problem with that idea is that the problems become ingrained and institutionalized over time and that makes fixing problems with a bill that much harder later. Especially with a dysfunctional government.

2) Promised to end the war in the middle east... but doesn't have the balls to do it the right way. Wars are because diplomacy failed and the person(s) on the other side of the conflict can no longer be reasoned with. When those same person(s) only goal and desire in life is your utter destruction, the only truly humane thing to do in the end is strike hard, strike fast, and utterly destroy the opposition in a war. That is war. It's not fun, it's not pretty, and people are going to die. Innocents will be harmed. Right now ISIS has declared war on the world and their formation was a direct result of the actions of both Bush and Obama in the middle east from Iraq to Afghanistan. Don't seek out war, but if troubles comes to find you then deal with swiftly. In the end it's the most merciful thing to do. Remember the Roman lessons of Carthage. If you let a war like relation with another country fester, they will only continue to attack over and over again until they win.

3) Better environment stewardship lip service. He is trying I think to improve the global environment and business practices I believe. Just hasn't done much and still pays lip service to failed plans such as cap and trade.

4) Pushing for innane gun control laws that he tries to convince others are "common sense" laws.

5) His responses to some of the initial episodes of the BLM movement like calling Trayvon Martin a son he never had. A president shouldn't utter anything like that until they have all the facts, because I do not want any president of mine trying to state he would like to have a son who was a bully, owned illegal weapons, and did drugs. He made similar remarks on other episodes before he finally clammed up. Still I think in his heart of hearts he doesn't believe that what he did was wrong as president in this matter.

6) Has kept and even strengthened federal policies that allow for the "war" on marijuana. Despite claiming he used the stuff himself in his past.

7) Bungled the enforcement of the cleanup of the BP oil spill.

8) Allowed the NSA to keep spying on Americans with shady practices. Then his handling of the Snowden whistleblowing was atrocious.

9) Caved in to terrorists demands by releasing 5 taliban terrorist prisoners in exchange for Bowe Bergdhal. Who is now standing trial for treason by the military for his desertion during war time. For which Obama has tried to block since he was dumb enough to the exchange and then initially celebrate his return like a returning hero.

10) Has yet to reign Hillary Clinton in on her lying and shady crap she has recently pulled in regards to benghazi and her use of a private email server for official government work.

11) Refuses to do his job in regards to immigration control per the laws on the books. As the executive wing of the government, his main function is execution of those laws. Not to do as he pleases because he disagrees with the laws as they are currently written. I have no problem with him to push for changes to the laws, but his refusal to do his job properly as it stands is wrong.

Excellent post, and I largely agree. With your good list, I'll just say that on balance I dislike what he has done with student loans. With the bad, I'll just say that I think the ACA is on balance a good thing. Even though its roll-out was horribly bungled, it raised my costs, and it's not at all the way I would prefer it to be done, it's provided health insurance (and therefore health care) to many Americans at what I consider to be an acceptable cost. For #3, he did pretty much kill coal. I don't think he bungled the BP affair any worse than would a Republican, and I too would have traded for Bergdahl - he might be an insane leftist traitor, but he's our insane leftist traitor. And for Benghazi, I can't stand the Hildabeast but I don't see pretending that she's any worse than (or even as bad as) the Republicans on the issue. Kudos though for providing a coherent, well-reasoned list of pros and cons.

 

[HumblePie]

Excellent post, and I largely agree. With your good list, I'll just say that on balance I dislike what he has done with student loans. With the bad, I'll just say that I think the ACA is on balance a good thing. Even though its roll-out was horribly bungled, it raised my costs, and it's not at all the way I would prefer it to be done, it's provided health insurance (and therefore health care) to many Americans at what I consider to be an acceptable cost. For #3, he did pretty much kill coal. I don't think he bungled the BP affair any worse than would a Republican, and I too would have traded for Bergdahl - he might be an insane leftist traitor, but he's our insane leftist traitor. And for Benghazi, I can't stand the Hildabeast but I don't see pretending that she's any worse than (or even as bad as) the Republicans on the issue. Kudos though for providing a coherent, well-reasoned list of pros and cons.

I like that the ACA brought healthcare services to people that would otherwise not have it, but I hate the inherent mechanism behind it which is massively flawed to begin with. That being the usage of the private insurance sector. Just UGH! He was the one responsible for drafting the original bill and trying to push congress to pass it. Thus all the flaws and bad design are directly attributable to him.

He killed coal to a degree, but offered no real substitute yet. So hence the lip service.

Agree to disagree with student loan changes. I think they were the right step in the right direction for the laws, but they again didn't hit the mark exactly as I would have liked either.

As far as Bergdhal, no we are a country that doesn't give into terrorist demands. Not unless we as a country agree to it by which then he executes his role in that regard. Instead he jumped the gun and did it under the noses of everyone else in the government. A really big no-no to me and many others. I don't disagree with attempting to get Bergdhal back. I would rather have sent special forces (even if it endangered their lives) to bring him back than to give into terrorist demands. The later is WHY ISIS and other terrorist organizations are as strong as they are in the world today. They receive almost all their funding through kidnapping and ransoms that other countries idiotically pay out.

As far a Hildabeast goes, I rather him no poke the subject than to lend what aid he has already to her. Either come down on her, or distance himself politically from her and the mess. Don't support her in anyway as he has done. Again, those are his actions for that support.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

I thought the part of where Obama said his administration would be a manufacturing renaissance was interesting since most of his campaign promises involved more regulations, which would obviously have the complete opposite effect.

It's kind of funny how the conservatards hate Obama, when in fact he is nothing more than a corporate whore, like all the Republicans. Ohh wait, no, it's no funny, it's sad and pathetic. Of course the same could be said about the libtards that think he was this great progressive champion too.

Bernie Sanders is a progressive. Obama, Hilary, and just about all the rest, D or R doesn't matter, are little more than corporate puppets.

 

[bradly1101]

I however have frustrations too. By requiring people to sign up with health insurance companies, and removing the no-profit alternative, for-profit greed will rule the system, and ruin it. That was his biggest failure to me.

Continuing many policies like privacy invasion, drone strikes (which often kill civilians and only exacerbate the difficulty of our mission in the Middle East) are other examples. And what exactly is our overall mission? If it's to "destroy" ISIS/terrorists... we will only make it bigger with our current tactics. As long as there are weapons available (we've all made sure of that) then hate = fight. Can we get them to stop hating us? Maybe if we can leave their holy lands alone, maybe if we rise above our own fear and loathing of Muslims that keep bubbling to the surface. Does Obama not think that attacks on Muslims and their ideals aren't news in the Middle East? He could say more to condemn that kind of thing.

I wish things were better with Obama, but I understand that it's complicated.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Between what I've seen here about "Libya," "underestimation of ISIS," and the rest of it, let me offer some more in the way of observation.

I've lived through ten presidencies, and eleven if you count Obama. I've "served" through six of them.

What I see with Obama is "character" with a capital-C. He stands up. Where are the scandals and trouble that plagued other presidencies? Specifically, I discount what seems to be "manufactured" -- specifically, Benghazi.

The rest is either a matter of "relative" differences with W., or the mistake of hindsight clarity. Countries like Libya, Syria, Saddam and post-Saddam IRaq were like black boxes: nobody could tell precisely what terrorist elements had morphed or infected them. With Libya, we were dealing with a moderate government in Benghazi, while crazies ascended in Tripoli and the country-side. Casualties? O and Hillary count 4. Shall I enumerate the carnage wrought by the previous crew?

The ACA may have been passed under Obama, but a faction of the party has a footprint on it going back to Hillary as First Lady. Or do you even remember? I have no doubt that the impetus came as much from Hillary and her supporters after the Dem Primary outcome of 2008.

If John McCain can argue that Vietnam was a noble cause, you can't argue any less for Hillary's advocacy of health reform. But by contrast, it seems to be working.

When it comes to the President, I've restrained myself in letters to the local newspaper editor in voicing a "defense." "He doesn't need it." So I'll use an Al Pacino script excerpt here:

COLONEL SLADE: You don't know what 'out of order' is! I'd show you out of order, but I'm too old, too tired and too blind! If I were half the man I was five years ago, I'd put a flame thrower to this place! I've been aroun', you know, there was time when I could see, and I've seen arms torn out and legs ripped off but there's nothing like the sight of an amputated spirit -- no prosthetic for that. You think you're mere sending this splendid soldier back to Oregon with this tail between his legs? I say you're executing his soul! . . . Baird men? You'll all be Baird bums. The whole bunch of you. And Harry -- Trent -- Jimmy -- wherever you are out there -- f*** you too!

And nobody . . . nobody! . . . has "amputated Obama's spirit. If they had, he doesn't show it. Not since day one, and no time to the present.

 

[Vic]

Meh. I expected more leadership and statesmanship from Obama, but I think overall it's been a successful Presidency.

 

[woolfe9998]

As a liberal I find it hard to be truly objective about Obama. I find myself making excuses for him I probably wouldn't for Bush. But I don't see it as excuses, I see it as reasons. i.e. ISIS is so hard to fight because they aren't centralized or a clear identifiable enemy. My healthcare coverage is worse and premium is higher because my employer shifted costs onto me in spite of rising profits. The thing I am most critical about for Obama is foreign policy, but its also the subject I know the least about, I think as a whole, even the entire population cant really grasp. Even current presidential canidates don't know much and I use that as an excuse of why we seem to not be getting any traction on Syria, ISIS, Libya, ect. But it seems like commander in chief is one of the things he can control the most directly so the failures and accomplishments of foreign affairs fall directly on his shoulders.

Is there a real way to measure how well this administration is done? Is there clear cut examples how he directly has helped or hindered the country? And not blame congress?

I have a lot of conservative family members and friends and I see them as being insane for supporting the GOP, but they are probably thinking the same thing of me. And a lot of these people are intelligent people.

TL;DR What are measurable accomplishments and failures directly attributed solely to Obama?

This is as good a start as any:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

However, be aware that if you're talking to conservatives about Obama, what you as a liberal consider to be positive accomplishments will not be considered as such by them. Meaning the conservation will likely not go anywhere that is satisfying to either you or whomever you're talking to.

 

[woolfe9998]

For #3, he did pretty much kill coal.

How did he kill coal? I wish its demise was hastened, but the fact is even liberal commentators are saying coal is here to stay for at least several more decades and we need to work on making it cleaner.

I rate energy as an accomplishment of the administration because the investments in the renewables sector from the stimulus have helped to yield a near exponential expansion of solar and wind.

Cap and trade was never going to fly with the GOP in Congress. Obama could have gotten it early on instead of the ACA. It was one or the other but it could never have been both.

 

[HumblePie]

This is as good a start as any:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

However, be aware that if you're talking to conservatives about Obama, what you as a liberal consider to be positive accomplishments will not be considered as such by them. Meaning the conservation will likely not go anywhere that is satisfying to either you or whomever you're talking to.

I find that link funny in regards to some things. Like supporting the repeal of DOMA. Obama couldn't repeal DOMA nor even really introduce new laws to change it. That is not what the executive branch nor the president does. Good for him that he supported the repeal of the law. Even if DOMA wasn't repealed that is not a reflection on him as an accomplishment. So having it as a "promise kept" is a bit silly to use as an example of his accomplishments in the office. Now I guess if he promised to support the repeal and then said things against the repeal... then that is being two faced I guess. Either way it wouldn't matter.

 

[shortylickens]

I dont.
But I wasnt in love with him from the start, so perhaps I dont have the nostalgia.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I dont.
But I wasnt in love with him from the start, so perhaps I dont have the nostalgia.

Well, I'm not directing this at you. But the old saying, "What's good for the goose, is sauce for the gander." Or some variant of it.

One Trump supporter, featured in a news-link I'd used to start another thread, talked about "sizing people up" when it came to his business -- a tow-truck driver who repossessed cars.

We only get so much time to "size up" candidates with only fresh exposure. I've been "sizing up" Trump since he first appeared on the political stage a decade ago, or whenever it was. I could've said then, and I say now after a lot more examination -- "No cigar!"

Obama first caught my attention just when he announced his candidacy around middle of 2007. In my mind, it was a good bet. From the standpoint of some "game," I was blindsided by the heat he's taken since then. But I didn't vote for a presidential candidate anticipating whether he'd have trouble with an opposition in a Tea Party Congress.

Did I "love" him? It was never about that sort of affinity. It was more about what sort of person I wanted to see in the White House, after a lifetime of seeing these other Chuckleheads we've had -- varying in the degree of their chuckle-headed-ness.

 

[werepossum]

Well, I'm not directing this at you. But the old saying, "What's good for the goose, is sauce for the gander." Or some variant of it.

One Trump supporter, featured in a news-link I'd used to start another thread, talked about "sizing people up" when it came to his business -- a tow-truck driver who repossessed cars.

We only get so much time to "size up" candidates with only fresh exposure. I've been "sizing up" Trump since he first appeared on the political stage a decade ago, or whenever it was. I could've said then, and I say now after a lot more examination -- "No cigar!"

Obama first caught my attention just when he announced his candidacy around middle of 2007. In my mind, it was a good bet. From the standpoint of some "game," I was blindsided by the heat he's taken since then. But I didn't vote for a presidential candidate anticipating whether he'd have trouble with an opposition in a Tea Party Congress.

Did I "love" him? It was never about that sort of affinity. It was more about what sort of person I wanted to see in the White House, after a lifetime of seeing these other Chuckleheads we've had -- varying in the degree of their chuckle-headed-ness.

The only possible reasons you could have had for that "good bet" feeling are the color of his skin and his party affiliation. As a Senator he did nothing of note in the months before he began to run for President. As a state senator he did nothing of note except vote present an astounding number of times. Even his most ardent supporters could find nothing to laud except his supposed importance in passing one bill expanding free health insurance for poor children which expanded a previous Republican bill's coverage. As that was a bill written and submitted by Republicans in a Republican-dominated state government which passed with overwhelming support, I think we can safely assume that Mister Obama was inconsequential in that endeavor as well. The other part of his resume was his part-time teaching of Constitutional law (despite not actually practicing Constitutional or appellate law) and his university record - which we were informed was exemplary though not something he'd suffer people actually looking at.

I don't think he's been a bad President - although obviously I wouldn't rank him as number four as he ranks himself - but he had extremely little to recommend him at the time, even to people like myself who despise McCain. He was the ultimate back bencher.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

The only possible reasons you could have had for that "good bet" feeling are the color of his skin and his party affiliation. As a Senator he did nothing of note in the months before he began to run for President. As a state senator he did nothing of note except vote present an astounding number of times. Even his most ardent supporters could find nothing to laud except his supposed importance in passing one bill expanding free health insurance for poor children which expanded a previous Republican bill's coverage. As that was a bill written and submitted by Republicans in a Republican-dominated state government which passed with overwhelming support, I think we can safely assume that Mister Obama was inconsequential in that endeavor as well. The other part of his resume was his part-time teaching of Constitutional law (despite not actually practicing Constitutional or appellate law) and his university record - which we were informed was exemplary though not something he'd suffer people actually looking at.

I don't think he's been a bad President - although obviously I wouldn't rank him as number four as he ranks himself - but he had extremely little to recommend him at the time, even to people like myself who despise McCain. He was the ultimate back bencher.

Party affiliation -- pretty much. REmember I'm looking back over several GOP presidencies, and I've been able to develop my perspectives from being "inside" as well as outside. Whether or not you like those perspective, I'm more than comfortable with them.

Race? No. I'd have to write 20 or 40 pages to explain "where I'm comin' from." What disgusted me about some Democrats I knew in 2008: They said "Oh, No! Not the black guy! The black guy can't win!"

 

[werepossum]

How did he kill coal? I wish its demise was hastened, but the fact is even liberal commentators are saying coal is here to stay for at least several more decades and we need to work on making it cleaner.

I rate energy as an accomplishment of the administration because the investments in the renewables sector from the stimulus have helped to yield a near exponential expansion of solar and wind.

Cap and trade was never going to fly with the GOP in Congress. Obama could have gotten it early on instead of the ACA. It was one or the other but it could never have been both.

Sorry, I wasn't aware this was even controversial.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/03/investing/coal-obama-climate-change/
https://shimkus.house.gov/media-center/opeds/obamas-epa-trying-to-kill-coal-raise-your-electric-bill
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/mar/29/obama-kills-coal-as-promised/
http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2015/05/inside-war-on-coal-000002
http://www.politico.com/story/2012/04/uttered-in-2008-still-haunting-obama-in-2012-074892

Here’s one line that President Barack Obama might want to rewind: “Under my plan … electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket.”
That quip from a January 2008 interview with the San Francisco Chronicle editorial board is making the rounds in conservative circles — even Mitt Romney referred to it last month – and it likely won’t go away anytime soon.
Story Continued Below

“If somebody wants to build a coal-fired power plant, they can. It’s just that it will bankrupt them,” Obama said, responding to a question about his cap-and-trade plan. He later added, “Under my plan … electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket.”
Of course, cap and trade is long dead. But coal-fired power plants are powering down nationwide, and they are blaming the Obama Environmental Protection Agency. The president’s critics say proposed greenhouse gas regulations for future power plants are designed to cripple the coal industry.
And just like with another 2008 quote — Energy Secretary Steven Chu’s famed call to “figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe” — Republicans say the Chronicle clip shows what’s really in the president’s heart, that high electricity prices and the death of coal have always been Obama’s goal.
“There’s one promise he’s kept. One promise he’s kept,” Mitt Romney said on the campaign trail in Illinois last month. “When he campaigned, he said he wanted to raise the price of gasoline. He said that under him, energy costs would skyrocket. And then he brought in a trio of people to help him implement those policies,” Romney said, according to several news outlets .
Cap and trade died in the Senate two years ago, leaving the EPA to take on greenhouse gas emissions on its own — all stick, no carrot — much to the consternation of industry and GOP lawmakers.
“This administration promised before the election that they were going to bankrupt coal,” Rep. John Shimkus (R-Ill.) said at a House Subcommittee on Energy and Power hearing, before twice running a YouTube clip of the Chronicle interview.
“When the president has a little more flexibility, when we get past November,” wouldn’t he extend greenhouse gas regulations to current power plants? asked Rep. Morgan Griffith (R-Va.).
If “we believe his words, and we believe the words from his last campaign, don’t you anticipate he’s going to make the cost rise on the use of coal and even natural gas, because they’re both fossil fuels?” Griffith said. “‘All of the above’ doesn’t include coal — that’s a four letter word, isn’t it?” Griffith said.

Remember too, I didn't use that statement as a slam - I used it as an example of something positive he did for the environment. Coming perhaps coincidentally along with a glut of natural gas, killing coal replaces the dirtiest, most environmentally destructive fossil fuel with a much cleaner, much more environmentally friendly fossil fuel without the necessarily skyrocket[ing] energy costs Obama promised. That's a win-win.

 

[werepossum]

Party affiliation -- pretty much. REmember I'm looking back over several GOP presidencies, and I've been able to develop my perspectives from being "inside" as well as outside. Whether or not you like those perspective, I'm more than comfortable with them.

Race? No. I'd have to write 20 or 40 pages to explain "where I'm comin' from." What disgusted me about some Democrats I knew in 2008: They said "Oh, No! Not the black guy! The black guy can't win!"

Interesting. I can count on one hand the number of long term servicemen I know who would vote for any Democrat fro President. (Of course, I AM in Tennessee.)

 

[sportage]

Being president now a day is pretty much a lose lose situation.
Ok. So Obama can't do anything right.
You think Trump or Jeb or Cruz, or even Hillary will be any different?
You don't think Trump will have his Benghazi's to deal with?
His 911's to deal with?
His mass shootings to deal with?

I say lets keep it simple.
Take gasoline. Gas is under $2 for most of the country.
E-85 is down under $1.50.
Obama has his short comings, and thus democrats as well.
BuT... Do you REALLY want to risk the good times with voting republicans back in?
When what it all boils down, isn't the price of gasoline the bottom line?
Isn't THAT the way to go? Keep the presidency under democratic control?

ISIS, Muslim's, climate change, gay marriage, does any of that really matter in your daily life?
Doesn't the real issue come down to the price of gasoline?
And... keeping that price under $2 a gallon?
Lets not become distracted by nonsense or fail to see the forest for the trees.
There is a huge difference between filling your SUV gas tank for $30 as opposed to $80.
And a democrat is most likely to keep that gas prices under $2, regardless of that being a fluke or hands on management.

Where as, a republican is doomed to screw up a good thing. Especially with their trend in profiteering off gas prices and the American people. And Im not just referring to the Bush family. Donald and Ted Cruz are also knee deep in oil profiteering.
Lets keep it simple. Put Hillary in there, and gasoline will be the last thing you need worry about. And the only thing that matters in your daily life, frankly....

ISIS isn't going to get you. Nor gays getting married. But gas prices will bite you in the butt under a republican president. That has always been the case.
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