Are we viewing Obama through rose tinted glasses?

[TheSiege]

As a liberal I find it hard to be truly objective about Obama. I find myself making excuses for him I probably wouldn't for Bush. But I don't see it as excuses, I see it as reasons. i.e. ISIS is so hard to fight because they aren't centralized or a clear identifiable enemy. My healthcare coverage is worse and premium is higher because my employer shifted costs onto me in spite of rising profits. The thing I am most critical about for Obama is foreign policy, but its also the subject I know the least about, I think as a whole, even the entire population cant really grasp. Even current presidential canidates don't know much and I use that as an excuse of why we seem to not be getting any traction on Syria, ISIS, Libya, ect. But it seems like commander in chief is one of the things he can control the most directly so the failures and accomplishments of foreign affairs fall directly on his shoulders.

Is there a real way to measure how well this administration is done? Is there clear cut examples how he directly has helped or hindered the country? And not blame congress?

I have a lot of conservative family members and friends and I see them as being insane for supporting the GOP, but they are probably thinking the same thing of me. And a lot of these people are intelligent people.

TL;DR What are measurable accomplishments and failures directly attributed solely to Obama?

 

[alcoholbob]

I thought the part of where Obama said his administration would be a manufacturing renaissance was interesting since most of his campaign promises involved more regulations, which would obviously have the complete opposite effect.

 

[Moonbeam]

I couldn't give you any better advise that you seem to be giving yourself. The fact that you are not certain what is right and seek to know, but only in a way that is rational to the best of your ability to understand what rational is, would, in my opinion, put you far above the wisdom level of most people.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

As a liberal I find it hard to be truly objective about Obama. I find myself making excuses for him I probably wouldn't for Bush. But I don't see it as excuses, I see it as reasons. i.e. ISIS is so hard to fight because they aren't centralized or a clear identifiable enemy. My healthcare coverage is worse and premium is higher because my employer shifted costs onto me in spite of rising profits. The thing I am most critical about for Obama is foreign policy, but its also the subject I know the least about, I think as a whole, even the entire population cant really grasp. Even current presidential canidates don't know much and I use that as an excuse of why we seem to not be getting any traction on Syria, ISIS, Libya, ect. But it seems like commander in chief is one of the things he can control the most directly so the failures and accomplishments of foreign affairs fall directly on his shoulders.

Is there a real way to measure how well this administration is done? Is there clear cut examples how he directly has helped or hindered the country? And not blame congress?

I have a lot of conservative family members and friends and I see them as being insane for supporting the GOP, but they are probably thinking the same thing of me. And a lot of these people are intelligent people.

TL;DR What are measurable accomplishments and failures directly attributed solely to Obama?

Do you not think that I've asked myself similar questions throughout the two terms? I think I have, but not with so much doubt.

There's no way to measure his effectiveness, since no matter what he's done or tried to do, the 2010 Congress and its successors have stonewalled everything.

I'm coming from a point of view, after a decade and a half of growth in this literature:

http://www.amazon.com/Propaganda-Formation-Attitudes-Jacques-Ellul/dp/0394718747/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

Add to that Noam Chomsky, and various readings and excerpts from Simpson (see 1995 book "Science of Coercion"), Harold Laswell, Goebbels, Herzstein, etc.

There's been a real surge in misleading stories and deliberate subterfuge since before the 2004 election -- the Breitbart frenzies as example, so I call them.

Every thing that comes out of that side of the discussion has been directed at repetitive, frequent disparagement of the administration, and the opposition leadership has been in lockstep to use the media exposure at every turn.

There is an element of racism that has also been consistently obvious, but that's a difficult card. They don't say it, but it has to be part of the logic when you fail to cooperate on anything. If you say " . . . . has been consistently obvious," then you get accused of "playing the race card." But the Birther nonsense is obvious.

In the end, I offer you this consolation, from a screenplay by John Steinbeck for Brando's 3rd film. Steinbeck had gone to what is now Michoacán -- then, Morelos -- for some two years, interviewing people, gathering information:

" About leaders. You've looked for leaders. For strong men without faults. There aren't any. There are only men like yourselves. They change. They desert. They die. There's no leader but yourselves."

We got the ACA -- and it will be fixed and tuned. There's no solution without something like it, and it was a Republican idea anyway -- to merge subsidies with market processes.

You won't be able to measure anything because you're watching somebody who's been fighting uphill to do the job in every way.

As to a historical legacy, we'll just have to wait and see. But if you really believe Obama is the cause of the division we've experienced, you're weaseling out or not seeing clearly what has happened.

It's no less about "better or worse," or anything else. It's about power and the desire to achieve it.

 

[trenchfoot]

I view Obama not so much in what he's done by measure, I view him more as a successful post-apocalyptic steward of the disastrous Bush/Cheney 8 year raid on the treasury and their idiotic neocon inspired calls to war.

Considering what a horrific state of affairs the Bush/Cheney admin. left the nation in as they left office in disgusting fashion with their tails between their legs, Obama has, no matter how aggressively the Repubs have tried to obstruct and stifle the policies he is pursuing and has pursued in the past, managed to both encourage and stay out of the way of the nation healing itself.

For the fact that Obama has accomplished what he's done so far with the Repubs doing their utmost best to deny him anything and everything they possibly could is noteworthy in and of itself.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I view Obama not so much in what he's done by measure, I view him more as a successful post-apocalyptic steward of the disastrous Bush/Cheney 8 year raid on the treasury and their idiotic neocon inspired calls to war.

Considering what a horrific state of affairs the Bush/Cheney admin. left the nation in as they left office in disgusting fashion with their tails between their legs, Obama has, no matter how aggressively the Repubs have tried to obstruct and stifle the policies he is pursuing and has pursued in the past, managed to both encourage and stay out of the way of the nation healing itself.

For the fact that Obama has accomplished what he's done so far with the Repubs doing their utmost best to deny him anything and everything they possibly could is noteworthy in and of itself.

That, too. You remember the expression "No drama Obama?" I think he's been really cool-headed.

Who are the so-called experts on the other side? McCain and Graham. But, for all their honored service, their expertise is limited. The reports we'd heard from within the JCS supports the caution the administration continues to exercise.

The other side is using the current rash of attacks to call for "drastic action," bash the administration's performance, and whip up a fevered base of frightened people.

And it's interesting. THEIR Secretary of State became an Obama supporter. Of the whole lot, Powell was the most reasonable man. He had character. And he knew a lot more about "the business" than the two Senators.

I'd bet that people from the Trump crowd will flip that card on Powell if you ask about his epiphany.

 

[MongGrel]

I view Obama not so much in what he's done by measure, I view him more as a successful post-apocalyptic steward of the disastrous Bush/Cheney 8 year raid on the treasury and their idiotic neocon inspired calls to war.

Considering what a horrific state of affairs the Bush/Cheney admin. left the nation in as they left office in disgusting fashion with their tails between their legs, Obama has, no matter how aggressively the Repubs have tried to obstruct and stifle the policies he is pursuing and has pursued in the past, managed to both encourage and stay out of the way of the nation healing itself.

For the fact that Obama has accomplished what he's done so far with the Repubs doing their utmost best to deny him anything and everything they possibly could is noteworthy in and of itself.

You pretty much stated what I was going to.

+1

 

[BonzaiDuck]

You pretty much stated what I was going to.

+1

When I was shifting Right in my callow youth, I got to sit maybe 30 feet from Ronald Reagan at Fort Worth's Bronco Bowl. It was late 1975 or around January, '76.

It was all the kind of palaver designed to raise an applause. But it had no substance. I kept nodding off.

And when I was back in Virginia in '76 and ready for that election -- I felt compelled to give JC the vote.

This one? I've heard none of that type of drivel. He always has a clear message. When he jokes, he's funny. Between 2001 and 2008, there were times I was tempted to break my TV set.

Ha! you should've seen the 4-page letter -- signed with an auto-pen, so nothing to cherish -- from McCain. I'd written in December 2002, urging him to stop Bush. It was a long line of bullshit about all the WMDs in Saddam's possession. I got that letter response around January 14. And I was rolling on the floor with laughter, even as we were heading toward the Iraq War in March. I had no doubt that it was delusional bullshit. A year later, Kennedy was lambasting the administration over the deceit from the National Press Club. FOX cut him off, offering a 5-minute clip. I had to find CSPAN to hear the whole thing, but I think the other news channels -- one or more -- gave it more time.

 

[Sonikku]

I'm disappointed in him personally. He's basically gone back on his defending freedom and privacy against so called government protection for the inverse, becoming the NSA's biggest advocate. He kept the Patriot act law when he could have just let it fizzle. (True to form, Republicans, unable to criticize him for it being a Republican idea, criticize instead the way in which he signed it. The way he used the fucking pen to sign the damn thing...ugh.)

He's basically supported many of the failed policies of his predecessor, policies that should have died with his departure. Even Prescription Part D, a disaster in screwing over the tax payer for big pharm, seems like a mentality seeing more of the same. Hamstringing Medicare from negotiating drug prices. Banning the importation of drugs. Thus ensuring Americans will pay through the nose for drugs the rest of the world pays a fraction for, all for the sake of corporate profit.

I was hoping for an imperfect but good president. It seems like what we got is a guy better than Bush, but that's a pretty low bar.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I'm disappointed in him personally. He's basically gone back on his defending freedom and privacy against so called government protection for the inverse, becoming the NSA's biggest advocate. He kept the Patriot act law when he could have just let it fizzle. (True to form, Republicans, unable to criticize him for it being a Republican idea, criticize instead the way in which he signed it. The way he used the fucking pen to sign the damn thing...ugh.)

He's basically supported many of the failed policies of his predecessor, policies that should have died with his departure. Even Prescription Part D, a disaster in screwing over the tax payer for big pharm, seems like a mentality seeing more of the same. Hamstringing Medicare from negotiating drug prices. Banning the importation of drugs. Thus ensuring Americans will pay through the nose for drugs the rest of the world pays a fraction for, all for the sake of corporate profit.

I was hoping for an imperfect but good president. It seems like what we got is a guy better than Bush, but that's a pretty low bar.

This is another type of fallacy that I hear. "He's spent us into oblivion." [But Congress won't cooperate on the budget.] What do you suppose he's to do? Ask CONGRESS to throw out Part D?

On the NSA thing, when that finally burst open, I was sitting there asking "Well, what did you expect?" NSA's abilities were revealed in a 1999 BBC documentary on ECHELON. Bamford's revision to "The Puzzle Palace" was also published about that year. I had friends or acquaintances in Europe, insisting that I encrypt my e-mails with PGP. And I think I understood their paranoia.

I don't think that the meta-data access started with the Patriot Act. The whole telecommunications industry grew up around NSA since 1953.

 

[unokitty]

Are we viewing Obama through rose tinted glasses?

American Middle Class Is Losing Ground

... middle-income Americans have fallen further behind financially in the new century. In 2014, the median income of these households was 4% less than in 2000. Moreover, because of the housing market crisis and the Great Recession of 2007-09, their median wealth (assets minus debts) fell by 28% from 2001 to 2013.

Meanwhile, the far edges of the income spectrum have shown the most growth. In 2015, 20% of American adults were in the lowest-income tier, up from 16% in 1971. On the opposite side, 9% are in the highest-income tier, more than double the 4% share in 1971.

Wouldn't that depend on which we is doing the viewing?

Middle class shrinking. Income/wealth inequality growing -- not trends that Obama started -- not trends that Obama changed...

Not a problem for the highest-income tier that continues to grow... Though, the youngest adults, ages 18 to 29, that Pew Research cites as notable losers with a significant rise in their share in the lower-income tiers may not share the same perspective.

Uno

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

As a liberal I find it hard to be truly objective about Obama. I find myself making excuses for him I probably wouldn't for Bush. But I don't see it as excuses, I see it as reasons. i.e. ISIS is so hard to fight because they aren't centralized or a clear identifiable enemy. My healthcare coverage is worse and premium is higher because my employer shifted costs onto me in spite of rising profits.

Your employer did not shift healthcare costs to you. They had a certain amount in mind, and it's very normal for the inflation rate amount to increase your yearly premiums. The amount in which costs have increased has been way more than normal, and in order to keep up with their budgeting they have to transition the costs to you.

Ask someone that has vouched for this, I believe it was EagleKeeper that worked directly with the benefits department of his company. Why do you think over half of the companies that went into the Obamacare exchange have already bowed out?

 

[boomerang]

It was amazing to me that so many were so enamored of Obama. But, many were all caught up in the historic "first" of a black President. His winning a second term was flabbergasting but not unexpected. By every metric the man is a failure. That was obvious in his first term. But, he got elected again. Conjecturing on why is not worthy of the time it would take to type it out.

Next November, should Hillary survive until then, the same people that gave Obama two terms will vote for another historic first, the first female President. Two terms of an incompetent stoner with no accomplishments solely because of the color of his skin and then a vote for an incompetent criminal with no accomplishments whose only claim to fame is that she has managed to escape being brought up on charges.

And should she finally get tangled up in the web she's woven prior to the election, the vote will be for a communist that has convinced many people he's not one, that would then experience not being able to get anything through a Congress of any political flavor should he win.

The analytical ability of the populace is dropping but I'm sure we've probably changed the way we measure it to make everyone feel they're smarter. We're experiencing the fallout from that.

 

[werepossum]

As a liberal I find it hard to be truly objective about Obama. I find myself making excuses for him I probably wouldn't for Bush. But I don't see it as excuses, I see it as reasons. i.e. ISIS is so hard to fight because they aren't centralized or a clear identifiable enemy. My healthcare coverage is worse and premium is higher because my employer shifted costs onto me in spite of rising profits. The thing I am most critical about for Obama is foreign policy, but its also the subject I know the least about, I think as a whole, even the entire population cant really grasp. Even current presidential canidates don't know much and I use that as an excuse of why we seem to not be getting any traction on Syria, ISIS, Libya, ect. But it seems like commander in chief is one of the things he can control the most directly so the failures and accomplishments of foreign affairs fall directly on his shoulders.

Is there a real way to measure how well this administration is done? Is there clear cut examples how he directly has helped or hindered the country? And not blame congress?

I have a lot of conservative family members and friends and I see them as being insane for supporting the GOP, but they are probably thinking the same thing of me. And a lot of these people are intelligent people.

TL;DR What are measurable accomplishments and failures directly attributed solely to Obama?

Interesting introspective. A few points:
Even though foreign policy is the main area where a President has the most discretion and the fewest limits, it's also the least predictable since it directly involves the whole world.

No one's Middle East policy works. It's a region full of insane and barely civilized people.

The economy is cyclic, and it's where a President has the very least control.

The best measures of a President are how he or she reacts to crisis and what they do with their Executive Orders and agencies. Even with the latter, a President has limited control, so Obama didn't necessarily order arming Mexican drug cartels or IRS discrimination against conservative groups. Even though he did provide cover for both, he also knows that they will be used against him if he admits they were bad things.

Obama's terrible record on privacy is his own, but also should be evaluated as being in line with every other likely President.

In the end, Obama was elected solely for his skin color and his ability to read a TelePrompTer. He had zero life accomplishments beyond getting himself elected and becoming reasonably wealthy despite relatively low paid public service jobs (which is the rule rather than the exception.) By that standard, he's been a pretty decent President, becoming much more in the office than when he entered it.

 

[werepossum]

Are we viewing Obama through rose tinted glasses?

American Middle Class Is Losing Ground
Wouldn't that depend on which we is doing the viewing?

Middle class shrinking. Income/wealth inequality growing -- not trends that Obama started -- not trends that Obama changed...

Not a problem for the highest-income tier that continues to grow... Though, the youngest adults, ages 18 to 29, that Pew Research cites as notable losers with a significant rise in their share in the lower-income tiers may not share the same perspective.

Uno

I'm not an Obama fan and never voted for him, but I don't think this necessarily has much to do with Obama. Both parties have embraced the concept of a two-tiered society of a small ruling upper class and a huge, flat ruled class. Probably because we as a society have demanded that kind of world.

 

[Genx87]

Obama has set new low bars when it comes to liberty. The president can now declare a US citizen abroad an enemy of the state and have them killed without trial. He passed a healthcare bill that requires citizens to purchase private insurance. The NSA and security agencies have run rampant over our privacy. And now he wants to deny constitutional rights based on a secretive list his govt creates.

On the foreign policy side he has managed to create chaos in Libya and contributing to it in Syria. Ukraine happened under his nose. Though I give him credit for taking action against Putin in the only way he could. Right now through a poorly planned idea to equip so called moderate rebels in Syria. And continue to arm a pathetic Iraqi army. We are in a sad bit of irony ISIS biggest supplier of arms.

Anyways here comes the sad part. In 2008 I had hope in Obama. A changing of the guard. New ideas. In 2016 I am looking at Hillary Clinton or whatever dumpster fire candidate comes from the Republican side. There is no feeling of hope in this coming election like there has in the past. All I see is more war, more destruction of personal liberty under the WoT, and less economic expansion and more central control.

 

[QuantumPion]

For all of the partisanship and complaining coming from both sides, Obama hasn't actually done much of anything. He blew all his political capital on Obamacare in his first 2 years and hasn't done much else at all domestically, good or bad. Even Obamacare hasn't turned out to do that much in the big scheme of things. Sure it made healthcare more expensive and the regulations are a huge pain and expense for health care providers and insurance companies, but that's about it. I predict Obama's main legacy will be his disastrous foreign policy blunders - the rise of ISIS and radical islam and a nuclear Iran.

 

[Spungo]

As a liberal I find it hard to be truly objective about Obama. I find myself making excuses for him I probably wouldn't for Bush.

Most liberals I know, myself included, are disgusted by a lot of the things Obama has done. That said, he's probably the best option on the table. I voted for him over McCain, and I still stand by that decision. Obama gets a bit of a pass because it at least looks like he's trying to make things better, and he tries to stay in touch with the American people. He's failing, but I respect the effort.

I'm not an Obama fan and never voted for him, but I don't think this necessarily has much to do with Obama.

:thumbsup:
I really wish people would stop attributing godlike powers to politicians. During Canada's last election, the ultra left wing candidate was indirectly accusing the prime minister of controlling China's fiscal and monetary policy. Complete collapse in global copper prices since 2011? That was all Canada's fault, apparently. Collapse of oil prices? Canada's fault. Collapse of coal prices? Canada's fault. I didn't know the leader of Canada had so much control over world commodity prices. They must have one hell of a strong military up there if they can exert so much control on a global scale.

 

[Jhhnn]

The best measures of a President are how he or she reacts to crisis and what they do with their Executive Orders and agencies. Even with the latter, a President has limited control, so Obama didn't necessarily order arming Mexican drug cartels or IRS discrimination against conservative groups. Even though he did provide cover for both, he also knows that they will be used against him if he admits they were bad things.

Stilll no shame. "didn't necessarily order arming Mexican drug cartels" is pure bullshit.

 

[Jhhnn]

I view Obama not so much in what he's done by measure, I view him more as a successful post-apocalyptic steward of the disastrous Bush/Cheney 8 year raid on the treasury and their idiotic neocon inspired calls to war.

Considering what a horrific state of affairs the Bush/Cheney admin. left the nation in as they left office in disgusting fashion with their tails between their legs, Obama has, no matter how aggressively the Repubs have tried to obstruct and stifle the policies he is pursuing and has pursued in the past, managed to both encourage and stay out of the way of the nation healing itself.

For the fact that Obama has accomplished what he's done so far with the Repubs doing their utmost best to deny him anything and everything they possibly could is noteworthy in and of itself.

It wasn't just a raid on the treasury but rather a top down looting spree of the whole economy. Maintenance of right wing ideology depends entirely on denial of the simple truths you offer. It remains unchanged, other than the figureheads.

 

[unokitty]

I'm not an Obama fan and never voted for him, but I don't think this necessarily has much to do with Obama. Both parties have embraced the concept of a two-tiered society of a small ruling upper class and a huge, flat ruled class. Probably because we as a society have demanded that kind of world.

More trends that Obama didn't start and didn't change.

After being swept into office promising "Hope and Change" and an end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Obama has morphed into a just another helpless White House occupant.

You are welcome to your opinion. I just find it distasteful for the most powerful man in the world to embrace victimhood.

Uno

 

[Exterous]

I'm disappointed in him personally. He's basically gone back on his defending freedom and privacy against so called government protection for the inverse, becoming the NSA's biggest advocate. He kept the Patriot act law when he could have just let it fizzle.

:thumbsup:

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I wish I had more time...the first failure that comes to mind is his failed "reset" strategy with Russia which effectively exposed his naivete when he unilaterally threw a NATO ally under the bus without getting anything in return except Putin's ever growing disrespect. Also, Libya was a huge failure using most any metric you care to use...our actions have significantly destabilized the region which resulted in massive human suffering and provided a new safe haven for terrorists. I hear that ISIS is now training pilots there as well...he has consistently underestimated ISIS despite all the evidence. His plan to deal with ISIS has not and will not accomplish his stated goals. He appears to view the world rather simplistically, rather than how it actually is. These and many other missteps such as the red line, failing to leave an Iraq residual presence, failed Syria strategy, his highly questionable Iran nuclear negotiations, and the Afghanistan surge debacle all demonstrate his naivete and profound lack of competence. As if this isn't enough, his lack of leadership on the world stage reflects poorly on his presidency and our country. The next President of this country will inherent a mess that rivals the one Obama himself inherited.

 

[Jhhnn]

For all of the partisanship and complaining coming from both sides, Obama hasn't actually done much of anything. He blew all his political capital on Obamacare in his first 2 years and hasn't done much else at all domestically, good or bad. Even Obamacare hasn't turned out to do that much in the big scheme of things. Sure it made healthcare more expensive and the regulations are a huge pain and expense for health care providers and insurance companies, but that's about it. I predict Obama's main legacy will be his disastrous foreign policy blunders - the rise of ISIS and radical islam and a nuclear Iran.

Repubs set out to obstruct in the wake of the 2008 election & parlayed that into the electoral backlash of 2010, then used every means at their disposal to pursue those ends.

If Dodd-Frank was nothing, Repubs wouldn't be working hard to circumvent it.

If the ACA was as you claim, millions of Americans wouldn't have gained access to health insurance & care.

If Obama had chosen to defend DOMA then gay marriage rights would not exist.

If Obama had knuckled under to Repub threats to destroy the full faith & credit of the govt or cut benefits that offset the depredations of the financial elite we'd have even greater inequality.

If Obama hadn't championed sentencing reform we wouldn't have it.

If he hadn't defended women's constitutional right to abortion it would have effectively ceased to exist.

If he hadn't gone along with cannabis legalization we wouldn't be tearing down half the WoD & granting cannabis users the respect they deserve. We'd have turned away from a major healing event in our society.

If the Bushistas hadn't invaded Iraq then ISIS wouldn't exist.

If they hadn't used 9/11 as an excuse to demonize Iran then their nuclear program might well have unfolded entirely differently. If Obama & the West hadn't offered them sufficient incentives they'd still be poised on a very short breakout time to weaponization.

 

[Jaskalas]

Obama has set new low bars when it comes to liberty. The president can now declare a US citizen abroad an enemy of the state and have them killed without trial. He passed a healthcare bill that requires citizens to purchase private insurance. The NSA and security agencies have run rampant over our privacy. And now he wants to deny constitutional rights based on a secretive list his govt creates.

On the foreign policy side he has managed to create chaos in Libya and contributing to it in Syria. Ukraine happened under his nose. Though I give him credit for taking action against Putin in the only way he could. Right now through a poorly planned idea to equip so called moderate rebels in Syria. And continue to arm a pathetic Iraqi army. We are in a sad bit of irony ISIS biggest supplier of arms.

Anyways here comes the sad part. In 2008 I had hope in Obama. A changing of the guard. New ideas. In 2016 I am looking at Hillary Clinton or whatever dumpster fire candidate comes from the Republican side. There is no feeling of hope in this coming election like there has in the past. All I see is more war, more destruction of personal liberty under the WoT, and less economic expansion and more central control.

^ This, very much this.
It's almost guaranteed that the next President is "worse" than Obama could ever hope to be.