Are you a Hillary supporter? Why?

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TheGardener

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2014
1,945
33
56
Here's the problem with Sanders. He was elected in 2006, meaning he was in the Senate when Obamacare was passed. But why isn't Obamacare Medicare for all, or doesn't even have a public option? Sanders was not even able to sway the Senate Democrats to his way of thinking, so he has no chance of getting his policies passed.
Your point is taken, but it is just one issue. So alone that does not prove very much. Anyway whoever is elected president can take Executive Orders to a new level, just like the incumbent.
 

mysticjbyrd

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2015
1,363
3
0
Clinton will win no matter how Sanders performs in the primaries. The main stream Democrats and the limousine liberals (i.e. big money, including the evil money bank people) are all backing Clinton. The fix is in. While she will probably win it in the primaries, she'll certainly get almost all of the super delegate votes. Sanders is making it interesting, but he can't create any of the backroom deals like Obama. This old saying is true today, as it was a hundred years ago. "In the Halls of Justice, the only justice is in the halls."

I was watching Meet The Press for a few minutes this weekend. Chuck Todd asked Sanders twice about why no Democratic Senator or Governor is openly supporting him. Sanders answered in round about ways to not answer the question. That hit home. It means, Clinton has already won the nomination.

The only problem with that notion is that Obama didn't get anything progressive passed. If there were any backroom deals, it was a discussion on how to pass things like the TPP without people even getting to read it. How to abandon healthcare, and use a republican plan that strokes the insurance company. How to continue endless wars, so corporations could continue to suckle at the govt tit. How no one would be held accountable for the fraud that crashed the economy. etc... Yah there were some backdoor deals going on alright...
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
The only problem with that notion is that Obama didn't get anything progressive passed. If there were any backroom deals, it was a discussion on how to pass things like the TPP without people even getting to read it. How to abandon healthcare, and use a republican plan that strokes the insurance company. How to continue endless wars, so corporations could continue to suckle at the govt tit. How no one would be held accountable for the fraud that crashed the economy. etc... Yah there were some backdoor deals going on alright...

What did Bernie get passed in the Senate?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
The only problem with that notion is that Obama didn't get anything progressive passed. If there were any backroom deals, it was a discussion on how to pass things like the TPP without people even getting to read it. How to abandon healthcare, and use a republican plan that strokes the insurance company. How to continue endless wars, so corporations could continue to suckle at the govt tit. How no one would be held accountable for the fraud that crashed the economy. etc... Yah there were some backdoor deals going on alright...

To say the ACA wasn't progressive would be nuts. It provided health care (which is functionally money) for poor people by taxing investment income and high income tax brackets. That's basically the dictionary definition of progressive legislation.

Don't try to pull the same nonsense that conservatives do where you continually redefine 'progressiveness' as whatever the furthest left ideology is. That's the same thing conservatives do for conservatism and look where it got them - the loony bin.
 

mysticjbyrd

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2015
1,363
3
0
To say the ACA wasn't progressive would be nuts. It provided health care (which is functionally money) for poor people by taxing investment income and high income tax brackets. That's basically the dictionary definition of progressive legislation.

Don't try to pull the same nonsense that conservatives do where you continually redefine 'progressiveness' as whatever the furthest left ideology is. That's the same thing conservatives do for conservatism and look where it got them - the loony bin.

No, it's not progressive. The public option is progressive, Healthcare for all is progressive.

ACA is basically the status quo. One step forward, two steps back.
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Are you high? One senator has absolutely no power! He is one vote...

He did help pass some legislation, a lot more than Shillary.

He is promising Medicare for all. For that he will need to convince a Senate to pass it. I am just wondering, does he have any demonstrated ability to do so while serving in the Senate? No need to be disrespectful, it's a legitimate concern related to his effectiveness.
 

mysticjbyrd

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2015
1,363
3
0
Define progressive then.
The ACA is one step forward, one step back. That's the status quo of nothing happening.

He is promising Medicare for all. For that he will need to convince a Senate to pass it. I am just wondering, does he have any demonstrated ability to do so while serving in the Senate? No need to be disrespectful, it's a legitimate concern related to his effectiveness.
Two HUGE flaws with this.
#1 Shillary won't pass anything progressive, even if she had unanimous support.
#2 Bernie has help get votes to pass more legislation than Hillary.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Clinton will win no matter how Sanders performs in the primaries. The main stream Democrats and the limousine liberals (i.e. big money, including the evil money bank people) are all backing Clinton. The fix is in. While she will probably win it in the primaries, she'll certainly get almost all of the super delegate votes. Sanders is making it interesting, but he can't create any of the backroom deals like Obama. This old saying is true today, as it was a hundred years ago. "In the Halls of Justice, the only justice is in the halls."

I was watching Meet The Press for a few minutes this weekend. Chuck Todd asked Sanders twice about why no Democratic Senator or Governor is openly supporting him. Sanders answered in round about ways to not answer the question. That hit home. It means, Clinton has already won the nomination.

Yeh, Repubs are trollin' hard for Bernie, no doubt, tearing down Hillary & the Democratic party at the same time, as usual. He's the guy they want to run against, no doubt.

You might vote for him if there was a gun to your head, right?

Hillary has huge support among rank & file Dems, the mainstream of the Party. You know, people who aren't out to implement a radical agenda but rather to extend a streak of decent govt despite Repub efforts to the contrary. If she takes the nomination, it'll be those people voting for her in the primaries & the caucuses who hand it to her & none other.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
The ACA is one step forward, one step back. That's the status quo of nothing happening.

That's not a definition of progressive.

You said it's not progressive so tell me what the standard is that you're using to determine that? Be as specific as you can be.
 

TheGardener

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2014
1,945
33
56
I love it when progressives call one another "loonies". Can "idiot" or "moron" or "extreme" be around the corner?

Here are some bills that Sanders has sponsored.

S.2391 — 114th Congress (2015-2016)

American Clean Energy Investment Act of 2015

Only introduced.

S.2398 — 114th Congress (2015-2016)

Clean Energy Worker Just Transition Act

Only introduced.

S.2399 — 114th Congress (2015-2016)

Climate Protection and Justice Act of 2015

Only introduced.

Seems like these recently sponsored bills are part of his campaign effort.
 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
16,284
3,905
75
The main thing about Bernie Sanders that worries me is that he's more professorial than the current President. I don't think Sanders passes the commander-in-chief test very well.

But that doesn't make me a "Hillary supporter" either.

Neither candidate excites me enough at this point to go out and caucus for them - because that's what you have to do in Colorado. :\ Unlike Obama, who I did caucus for.

I'll likely vote for whichever Democrat wins, in the general election.
 

TheGardener

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2014
1,945
33
56
Yeh, Repubs are trollin' hard for Bernie, no doubt, tearing down Hillary & the Democratic party at the same time, as usual. He's the guy they want to run against, no doubt.

You might vote for him if there was a gun to your head, right?

Hillary has huge support among rank & file Dems, the mainstream of the Party. You know, people who aren't out to implement a radical agenda but rather to extend a streak of decent govt despite Repub efforts to the contrary. If she takes the nomination, it'll be those people voting for her in the primaries & the caucuses who hand it to her & none other.
Trolling? If you could get your "troll'in" head out of Hillary's humongous rear, maybe you could see that I'm adding to the conversation. I am quite able to independently analyze what is going on with the Democratic contest. I've done a much better job than you. Nice try by throwing the race card out there. Yes, sarcasm.
 

FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
4,670
271
126
I'm sure by now you guys realize that the Republicans in congress will not work with ANY Democratic president. Any. Who it is is irrelevant as Republicans have no electoral incentive to compromise. (They fear primary challenges more than general election losses)

Wow! I thought I was on your ignore list! You still love me! <3

Ok, all teasing aside, I honestly don't think there's little, if any, chance of the two parties working together. Remember, when Obama won in 2008 and the dems had both houses, Obama's statement to the 'stupid party' was, 'we won'; no olive branch offered. And as others have pointed out, Hillary has already stated the 'the stupid party' is the real enemy; not exactly verbiage that will foster a bipartisan love fest.

I have no faith in either establishment political party. They're both wholly owned by the donor class and will do whatever they are told by said donor class. I've lost what little faith I had in our political system.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
Wow! I thought I was on your ignore list! You still love me! <3

Ok, all teasing aside, I honestly don't think there's little, if any, chance of the two parties working together. Remember, when Obama won in 2008 and the dems had both houses, Obama's statement to the 'stupid party' was, 'we won'; no olive branch offered. And as others have pointed out, Hillary has already stated the 'the stupid party' is the real enemy; not exactly verbiage that will foster a bipartisan love fest.

I have no faith in either establishment political party. They're both wholly owned by the donor class and will do whatever they are told by said donor class. I've lost what little faith I had in our political system.

I don't have anyone on my ignore list, haha.

Obama actually offered major olive branches to the Republican Party, it's all right there in the record. They were all rebuffed. Eventually (and intelligently) he stopped trying to negotiate with people who clearly weren't interested in negotiating with him.

I agree that Hillary isn't exactly inspiring a bipartisan love fest, but to me that seems to be a rational response to Obama's presidency. I mean he eventually learned from his mistaken attempts so why shouldn't she?

This isn't even an attempt to assign blame, it's a simple acknowledgment of political reality. The Republican primaries are dominated by people who are very, very, very conservative. They view making deals with Democrats to be a really bad thing. Republicans are mostly in safe districts and states, which means they don't need to worry about centrist credentials in order to stay in office. They DO have to worry about a primary challenge. Therefore, it makes sense not to deal with Democrats.

Like it or not, Democrats don't have the same culture of primary-ing out people to anywhere near the same extent.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
The ACA is one step forward, one step back. That's the status quo of nothing happening.


Two HUGE flaws with this.
#1 Shillary won't pass anything progressive, even if she had unanimous support.
#2 Bernie has help get votes to pass more legislation than Hillary.

The "one step forward" for ACA added millions of working poor Americans to the single payer Medicaid system.

Calling Hillary lame names doesn't strengthen your argument or add to Bernie's list of accomplishments or effectiveness. He has zero chance of getting anything passed in Congress.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
The "one step forward" for ACA added millions of working poor Americans to the single payer Medicaid system.

Calling Hillary lame names doesn't strengthen your argument or add to Bernie's list of accomplishments or effectiveness. He has zero chance of getting anything passed in Congress.

I'm still waiting for him to define 'progressive'. If you don't make people define terms they can make it mean anything they want. It's a weird world where helping millions of poor people get health insurance primarily paid for through taxing the rich is not 'progressive', but here we are.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Yep, Republicans are fighting tooth in nail to not expand Medicaid to their states, obviously because it's not progressive.
 

TheGardener

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2014
1,945
33
56
Obama hasn't weighed in on who he will support. He knows that Sanders is a long shot. But let's face it, the Obama's hate the Clinton's. Ya, that is an opinion, but a lot of people share it. I figure that he will hold out for some jobs for his people. The way that Clinton held out, until she got the Cabinet position she wanted.

Obama did speak to Politico. He thinks that Sanders is a one issue candidate, and that Clinton is a more well rounded. (Sorry for the pun... )

But he still resents the 2008 primary. That comment about will Obama answer the phone at 3AM, still sticks in his craw. He offers his own retort.

In fact, he said, Clinton &#8220;had a tougher job throughout that primary than I did. She had to do everything that I had to do, except, like Ginger Rogers, backwards in heels. She had to wake up earlier than I did because she had to get her hair done.&#8221;

Jhhnn, time for charges of a war against women. Or is it just a micro aggression? Let Obama know!

Linking the NY Post, not Politico. Because that is what I read.

http://nypost.com/2016/01/25/i-had-an-unfair-advantage-over-hillary-in-2008-obama/

Obama is officially neutral in the presidential race, but the commander-in-chief didn&#8217;t dispute the notion Clinton&#8217;s chief competitor Sen. Bernie Sanders is a one-issue candidate, whereas Clinton understands the real demands of the job.
&#8220;One thing everybody understands is that this job right here, you don&#8217;t have the luxury of just focusing on one thing,&#8221; Obama said.

As soon as Clinton settles on compensation with Obama, he'll endorse her. Obama believes he knows why Clinton.

Pay attention Jhhnn. Keep on topic! Maybe too much to expect from you. Of course. You just troll these forums!
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Ok, all teasing aside, I honestly don't think there's little, if any, chance of the two parties working together.

Sure there is. Boehner's resignation broke the Teahad's procedural leverage in the HOR & we got a budget including continued funding for PP instead of another govt shutdown snit.

Repubs are capable of reason when they put their own right wing on the sidelines.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Trolling? If you could get your "troll'in" head out of Hillary's humongous rear, maybe you could see that I'm adding to the conversation. I am quite able to independently analyze what is going on with the Democratic contest. I've done a much better job than you. Nice try by throwing the race card out there. Yes, sarcasm.

Obama hasn't weighed in on who he will support. He knows that Sanders is a long shot. But let's face it, the Obama's hate the Clinton's. Ya, that is an opinion, but a lot of people share it. I figure that he will hold out for some jobs for his people. The way that Clinton held out, until she got the Cabinet position she wanted.

Obama did speak to Politico. He thinks that Sanders is a one issue candidate, and that Clinton is a more well rounded. (Sorry for the pun... )

But he still resents the 2008 primary. That comment about will Obama answer the phone at 3AM, still sticks in his craw. He offers his own retort.



Jhhnn, time for charges of a war against women. Or is it just a micro aggression? Let Obama know!

Linking the NY Post, not Politico. Because that is what I read.

http://nypost.com/2016/01/25/i-had-an-unfair-advantage-over-hillary-in-2008-obama/



As soon as Clinton settles on compensation with Obama, he'll endorse her. Obama believes he knows why Clinton.

Pay attention Jhhnn. Keep on topic! Maybe too much to expect from you. Of course. You just troll these forums!

Called for trolling, puffing up a candidate you'd never vote for, you double down & troll harder.

Obama is staying above the fray. He'll endorse the Party's candidate & avoid creating any bitterness that wading into the Primary might create. Real Dems, not internet trolls, will put up a united front against the Repub pick.

I support Hillary because America isn't really ready for Bernie. His healthcare plan sounds great, but it won't happen & there's no point in pretending that it might. There's no point in pretending that his tax plan would fare any better, nor his plan to break up the big banks overnight. Not that you actually favor any of that, anyway.

Race? War on women? Microaggressions? Like you said, try to stay on topic, OK?
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Yeh, Repubs are trollin' hard for Bernie, no doubt, tearing down Hillary & the Democratic party at the same time, as usual. He's the guy they want to run against, no doubt.

You might vote for him if there was a gun to your head, right?

Hillary has huge support among rank & file Dems, the mainstream of the Party. You know, people who aren't out to implement a radical agenda but rather to extend a streak of decent govt despite Repub efforts to the contrary. If she takes the nomination, it'll be those people voting for her in the primaries & the caucuses who hand it to her & none other.

LOL, the vast right wing conspiracy. You're a loon.
 
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