are you for or against the recent government financial bailouts?

[sdifox]

I agree with the (stated) intent of the bailout, but not the execution/method of it.
Are they going to do anything about the subprime? That is what broke the camel's back.

 

[akubi]

Originally posted by: astroidea

Originally posted by: akubi

Originally posted by: waggy
at first i was against it. i really don't want my tax's going to save idiots that got themselves in this mess and giving CEO's billions in bonuses. BUT after reading more and more about it i suspect it has to be done. be cheaper in the long one. BUT i really hope they put more people watching so this does not happen again.


also they are talking on the news about adding more to it. nto just more bailouts but "riders" on the bill. ugh

the amount these guys have been paying in taxes is probably more than what you'll earn in a lifetime. I'm sure everyone knows taxes are paid as a %, not some flat fee. If they get "billions in bonuses" they must be paying millions or billions in taxes. I don't think these individual, "it's my tax money" arguments have any merit.

overall the bailout should be a good thing. as long as people keep paying their mortgages, the government will regain all the money its pumping in. that may be wishful thinking.

Only except these millionaires and billionaires only make up less than 0.1% of the population. The vast majority of the tax money comes from the middle class.
Horrible argument.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=2050

% of US Population % of Wealth Owned
==========================================================
Top 1% 38.1%
Top 96-99% 21.3%
Top 90-95% 11.5%
Top 80-89% 12.5%
Top 60-79% 11.9%
General 40-59% 4.5%
Bottom 40% 0.2%


you can have a million homeless social parasites that just eat up tax money. one wealthy individual paying for those food stamps is a bigger contributor.

 

[Regs]

If they do, they better apoint a receiver or trustee who is qualified and up to the job to straighten these company's out. I would also like to buy a 2 bed room town house for under 200k in the next decade you bastids.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: akubi

Originally posted by: astroidea
Only except these millionaires and billionaires only make up less than 0.1% of the population. The vast majority of the tax money comes from the middle class.
Horrible argument.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=2050

% of US Population % of Wealth Owned
==========================================================
Top 1% 38.1%
Top 96-99% 21.3%
Top 90-95% 11.5%
Top 80-89% 12.5%
Top 60-79% 11.9%
General 40-59% 4.5%
Bottom 40% 0.2%


you can have a million homeless social parasites that just eat up tax money. one wealthy individual paying for those food stamps is a bigger contributor.

interesting, so does that mean the top 96% percentile pays more taxes than the rest of the population combined?

 

[akubi]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

interesting, so does that mean the top 96% percentile pays more taxes than the rest of the population combined?

hmm I thought that was general knowledge. also consider that the bottom % is like NEGATIVE tax since they're just deadweight. Should just be deported to antarctica or something imo.

 

[mugs]

I'm against the actions that caused the bailouts to be necessary in the first place. Those of us who make sensible financial decisions could only sit and watch while a large group of people screwed the rest of us over in search of the quick buck.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Linflas
Hard for a free market to work if the risk piece of the equation is removed. While I understand why they are doing it I don't like it.

I agree to some extent, but one cannot ignore the details about how we got ourselves here in the first place. If you read up on the history of how this problem came to be, it starts back in the early 80s.

Saving and Loan Crisis


...and of course, there are certain people who have done a real bang up job trying to "fix" S&Ls.

Keating Five



I want to go back to what was working. I want proper regulation.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: akubi

Originally posted by: astroidea

Originally posted by: akubi

Originally posted by: waggy
at first i was against it. i really don't want my tax's going to save idiots that got themselves in this mess and giving CEO's billions in bonuses. BUT after reading more and more about it i suspect it has to be done. be cheaper in the long one. BUT i really hope they put more people watching so this does not happen again.


also they are talking on the news about adding more to it. nto just more bailouts but "riders" on the bill. ugh

the amount these guys have been paying in taxes is probably more than what you'll earn in a lifetime. I'm sure everyone knows taxes are paid as a %, not some flat fee. If they get "billions in bonuses" they must be paying millions or billions in taxes. I don't think these individual, "it's my tax money" arguments have any merit.

overall the bailout should be a good thing. as long as people keep paying their mortgages, the government will regain all the money its pumping in. that may be wishful thinking.

Only except these millionaires and billionaires only make up less than 0.1% of the population. The vast majority of the tax money comes from the middle class.
Horrible argument.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=2050

% of US Population % of Wealth Owned
==========================================================
Top 1% 38.1%
Top 96-99% 21.3%
Top 90-95% 11.5%
Top 80-89% 12.5%
Top 60-79% 11.9%
General 40-59% 4.5%
Bottom 40% 0.2%


you can have a million homeless social parasites that just eat up tax money. one wealthy individual paying for those food stamps is a bigger contributor.

Um % of wealth owned =! taxes paid.
You don't exactly get taxed on the money you have in your bank account.

 

[Nitemare]

I'd be or it if they seized the assets of the board members and higher ups and used them to bail out the company.

They didn't so I'm against it.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: akubi

Originally posted by: astroidea

Originally posted by: akubi

Originally posted by: waggy
at first i was against it. i really don't want my tax's going to save idiots that got themselves in this mess and giving CEO's billions in bonuses. BUT after reading more and more about it i suspect it has to be done. be cheaper in the long one. BUT i really hope they put more people watching so this does not happen again.


also they are talking on the news about adding more to it. nto just more bailouts but "riders" on the bill. ugh

the amount these guys have been paying in taxes is probably more than what you'll earn in a lifetime. I'm sure everyone knows taxes are paid as a %, not some flat fee. If they get "billions in bonuses" they must be paying millions or billions in taxes. I don't think these individual, "it's my tax money" arguments have any merit.

overall the bailout should be a good thing. as long as people keep paying their mortgages, the government will regain all the money its pumping in. that may be wishful thinking.

Only except these millionaires and billionaires only make up less than 0.1% of the population. The vast majority of the tax money comes from the middle class.
Horrible argument.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=2050

% of US Population % of Wealth Owned
==========================================================
Top 1% 38.1%
Top 96-99% 21.3%
Top 90-95% 11.5%
Top 80-89% 12.5%
Top 60-79% 11.9%
General 40-59% 4.5%
Bottom 40% 0.2%


you can have a million homeless social parasites that just eat up tax money. one wealthy individual paying for those food stamps is a bigger contributor.

last i checked wealth and tax's are diffrent.

 

[akubi]

Originally posted by: waggy

last i checked wealth and tax's are diffrent.

i'd say there's at least a strong correlation.

 

[akubi]

Originally posted by: astroidea

Um % of wealth owned =! taxes paid.
You don't exactly get taxed on the money you have in your bank account.

OK, here's another source... sorry it's only wikipedia but i'm sure it has some truth to it.

Tax distribution

As of 2007, there are about 138 million taxpayers in the United States,[8] including many who pay zero income tax,[9] estimated to about a third of all tax filers.[10] The Treasury Department in 2006 reported, based on Internal Revenue Service (IRS) data, the share of federal income taxes paid by taxpayers of various income levels. The data shows the progressive tax structure of the U.S. federal income tax system on individuals that reduces the tax incidence of people with smaller incomes, as they shift the incidence disproportionately to those with higher incomes - the top 0.1% of taxpayers by income pay 17.4% of federal income taxes (earning 9.1% of the income), the top 1% with gross income of $328,049 or more pay 36.9% (earning 19%), the top 5% with gross income of $137,056 or more pay 57.1% (earning 33.4%), and the bottom 50% with gross income of $30,122 or less pay 3.3% (earning 13.4%).[11][12] If the federal taxation rate is compared with the wealth distribution rate, the net wealth (not only income but also including real estate, cars, house, stocks, etc) distribution of the United States does almost coincide with the share of income tax - the top 1% pay 36.9% of federal tax (wealth 32.7%), the top 5% pay 57.1% (wealth 57.2%), top 10% pay 68% (wealth 69.8%), and the bottom 50% pay 3.3% (wealth 2.8%).[13]

Other taxes in the United States with a less progressive structure or a regressive structure, and legal tax avoidance loopholes change the overall tax burden distribution. For example, the payroll tax system (FICA), a 12.4% Social Security tax on wages up to $97,500 and a 2.9% Medicare tax (a 15.3% total tax that is often split between employee and employer) is a regressive tax on income with no standard deduction or personal exemptions. The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities states that three-fourths of U.S. taxpayers pay more in payroll taxes than they do in income taxes.[14] The Tax Foundation has stated that the burden of the corporate income tax (a 15-39% tax) falls on customers and workers of the corporations, who are often not rich.[15]

edit: link is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...n_in_the_United_States

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: astroidea

Originally posted by: akubi

Originally posted by: astroidea

Originally posted by: akubi

Originally posted by: waggy
at first i was against it. i really don't want my tax's going to save idiots that got themselves in this mess and giving CEO's billions in bonuses. BUT after reading more and more about it i suspect it has to be done. be cheaper in the long one. BUT i really hope they put more people watching so this does not happen again.


also they are talking on the news about adding more to it. nto just more bailouts but "riders" on the bill. ugh

the amount these guys have been paying in taxes is probably more than what you'll earn in a lifetime. I'm sure everyone knows taxes are paid as a %, not some flat fee. If they get "billions in bonuses" they must be paying millions or billions in taxes. I don't think these individual, "it's my tax money" arguments have any merit.

overall the bailout should be a good thing. as long as people keep paying their mortgages, the government will regain all the money its pumping in. that may be wishful thinking.

Only except these millionaires and billionaires only make up less than 0.1% of the population. The vast majority of the tax money comes from the middle class.
Horrible argument.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=2050

% of US Population % of Wealth Owned
==========================================================
Top 1% 38.1%
Top 96-99% 21.3%
Top 90-95% 11.5%
Top 80-89% 12.5%
Top 60-79% 11.9%
General 40-59% 4.5%
Bottom 40% 0.2%


you can have a million homeless social parasites that just eat up tax money. one wealthy individual paying for those food stamps is a bigger contributor.

Um % of wealth owned =! taxes paid.
You don't exactly get taxed on the money you have in your bank account.

http://www.american.com/archiv...-really-pays-the-taxes

You:

he vast majority of the tax money comes from the middle class.
Horrible argument.

Fact: Unless middle class includes top 5%, the majority of income taxes are paid by the rich.

 

[God Mode]

I'm just fucking pissed that no one is going to jail. Sometimes china has it right when they execute the people behind huge clusterfucks.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: akubi

Originally posted by: waggy

last i checked wealth and tax's are diffrent.

i'd say there's at least a strong correlation.

sure there is a correlation. but using wealth as a statement about what they pay in tax's is not going to work.

but i will concede those with more wealth usually make more income which pay more tax. but not all.

 

[yhelothar]

Alright, so the top 5% pays the majority of the taxes.
Regardless, taxes isn't a security fund for the rich so they can carelessly fuck up businesses and banks.

 

[Acanthus]

What everyone doesnt know is that Bernake worked at Bear Stearns, and lobbied for the current mess we are in. He personally made $600mil when he sold his stock, (and of course he sold all of it knowing the current mess was coming) and paid $0 in taxes on it because he became a public official. He ignored dialogue with experts and stayed the course until the banking system was on the verge of collapse, and is now power grabbing for the financial market to decide who will die and who will live by the wave of his hand.

And the $700bil price tag IS NOT THE PRICE TAG. Its how much debt they can allocate on the books at one time. So you can cycle through that 700bln 2-3 times in the 2 year period and cost us multiple trillions of dollars in the long run.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: akubi

Originally posted by: waggy

last i checked wealth and tax's are diffrent.

i'd say there's at least a strong correlation.

Do you have any idea how incredibly complex the tax codes are? Furthermore, do you have any idea how tons of rich people avoid paying ridiculous amounts of taxes by hiring the right people that are very familiar with these tax codes?

Let me just give you one small example to wet your appetite. I know a guy who plays WoW in my guild and he recently bought an expensive Alienware gaming laptop mostly to play WoW. He was able to write that off on his taxes. Why? Because there is some sort of tax code hidden amongst the monstrosity that is compilation of all our tax codes which states something about being able to write off stuff which is used for a "hobby". I know there are more details involved which I do not recall, but the bottom line is that he did it and he doesn't even own a business. He is just your average Joe attending college that works a register at a Cigar shop iirc.

The point here is that while everyone likes to debate what we should or shouldn't do when it comes to our system of taxes, what we really need to do first is bite the bullet and revise the tax code in its current form because it is a fucking mess. Hardly anyone truly understands it including the professionals who are paid to understand it. Once we tackle that monster and let it fly for a little while, then we can start talking about to change things.

 

[oddyager]

It depends? yeah it certainly could set a bad precedence that the government is the ultimate safety net for the greedy and the incompetent but in AIG's situation I don't think we had much of a choice unfortunately. The alternative would have screwed us ten times over.

 

[Gibson486]

Against. If I did that to a company, my reputation would be ruined and I would probably not even get severence. I'd end up with nothing in the end. These guys did it and will come out without harm and they will still get there bonuses, which will be paid by the american citizen. It's already estimated that we are gonna need more than 20 billion to do this. That's 20 billion plus money we keep throwing at war.

It's unfortunate that this decision is actually the lesser of two evils....it's a very sad time.

 

[ggnl]

I for it as long as the gov't follows up with effective regulation to keep it from happening again. If we're just going to go back to status quo, however, then fuck it, let them fail.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
as much as i hate it, i'm for it.
the alternative could end up being a lot worse.

I'm 70/30 against.

I don't like being held accountable for these worthless dipshits. I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for education or whatever, but not so that some greedy motherfucker can get a handout after gambling away the retirement of hundreds of thousands of people.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: akubi

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

interesting, so does that mean the top 96% percentile pays more taxes than the rest of the population combined?

hmm I thought that was general knowledge. also consider that the bottom % is like NEGATIVE tax since they're just deadweight. Should just be deported to antarctica or something imo.

i wouldn't say that it's general knowledge.
taxes are complicated, with lots of laws and loopholes. i would say that there are plenty of loopholes to avoid taxes, like offshore accounts and whatnot.

 

[FoBoT]

the fact that there was the beginning of a run on money market accounts points to the seriousness of the problem

i don't like the bailout, but i see the alternative being financial chaos and the collapse of the world economy. if people are moving money from money market accounts to T-Bills, the confidence in the system is at an all time low

 

[jonks]

Against. I'd rather the entire US economy and banking system fail subjecting us to a depression to make the 30s look like a street fair sending crime and unemployment spiraling up than bailing out these companies as that would have an undesireable effect on my tax rate.

Hm, maybe I'd better think about this some more.