Are you kidding??? Early School Start Times are bad for students

[Moonbeam]

Let me try and lay this out for you imbeciles, but first let me say that I use that term, 'imbeciles' here only to describe the usual gas bags filled with politically derivel who can't hear facts without their knees jerking wildly with every bit of garbage that has ever been dumped in their heads. Here we drown immediately in the horse shit of parental responsibilities lacking in left wing families, the lack of discipline, the rejection of competition, the hate of modern kids, the smarmy self worship of academic success in a sick school system based on the destruction of ones true self nature, the endless deflection and rationalizations that change is evil because the early bird catches the worm and piles of other glop thrown in to endlessly to mention.

So what are the actual facts you horse shit armchair theorists can't deny, one simple one indeed, that schools that adopt later hours turn out students with better academic test scores. The simple reality is that for kids in their teens, a later school starting time produces better learning in them, period, full stop, so shut your stupid asses and try to get more sleep so you can better take in your next science lesson instead of walking around like a pack of opinion drooling idiots. I don't want to have to get nasty about this. I had a rough night and just woke up.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I am all in favor of whatever produces better test scores and a better learning environment@!!!

 

[HumblePie]

To make this a true scientific experiment, try going to bed at 12AM and waking up at 5. Maybe your body needs exactly 5 hours of sleep and the extra sleep you get by going to bed early is detrimental.

Done that. Doesn't matter how much sleep I get, so long as I sleep in until 9am as long as the minimum sleep is 4 hours. It can be 4-12 hours total sleep. If I wake up before 9am it doesn't matter how much sleep I get from 4-12 hours I am still sleepy all day long. It's been that way since I was 2 years old according to my parents when I discussed this with them previously.

 

[chubbyfatazn]

Meh. We started at 9am in high school, I remember getting 5-7 hours of sleep most nights and feeling like crap when I woke up at around 8.

Then around 11th/12th grade I stopped eating shit and started running every night. Changed my daily routine to a banana and cup of coffee for breakfast, and two handfuls of spinach and a slice of turkey titty for lunch. Felt fully charged on the same 5-7 hours of sleep and started doing better in school.

I find that if I stop that routine I start performing worse, both physically and cognitively.

I wonder how many kids can't be half-assed to put down their phones and go outside and run around for an hour every day...

 

[DrPizza]

For one of my courses, I teach a section 1st period, and one after lunch. I'd have to go back at least 10 years to find a time when the afternoon class did better than the morning class. And, it seems reasonable to assume that my instruction was even better for the afternoon class than it was for the morning class, as I've had one more "practice" of teaching that content. Give me the tired kids - I'll keep them awake, and they're not distracting each other. At 8:20am, they're too tired to get on social media during class.

 

[HumblePie]

Meh. We started at 9am in high school, I remember getting 5-7 hours of sleep most nights and feeling like crap when I woke up at around 8.

Then around 11th/12th grade I stopped eating shit and started running every night. Changed my daily routine to a banana and cup of coffee for breakfast, and two handfuls of spinach and a slice of turkey titty for lunch. Felt fully charged on the same 5-7 hours of sleep and started doing better in school.

I find that if I stop that routine I start performing worse, both physically and cognitively.

I wonder how many kids can't be half-assed to put down their phones and go outside and run around for an hour every day...

In high school I was in shape. I swam for 3-5 miles a day, ran for at least that much, and did a lot of weight training. I did this every day. I ate good foods, nothing junk at all. If I ate the wrong foods I'd puke during my workout sessions so I was keenly aware of what I was doing.

Still didn't matter as to how it affected me. I was up at 4am every morning getting ready for swim practice and sleepy the entire time. I get to practice in the morning swim for a few hours then go to class. I'd was on both swim and soccer teams and alternated afternoon practices between them. A couple days I'd do both. Come home to nice cooked meal and hit the sack by 9pm usually if I got all my schoolwork done. Which usually was the case unless I was up a bit late doing some of my AP art stuff which took more time for me when I had a bigger project to do than my other schoolwork usually.

Didn't matter that I was getting a good 7ish hours a night most of the time. Heck I would sleep through the entire extra "study" period which was first period most of the time too. I just couldn't ever get going until after 9am. Still the same way for me. My body really doesn't like being awake between then hours of 3am and 9am.

I know this from when I used to do night shifts and third shifts. Soon as 3am hit I effing hurting to stay awake. Doesn't matter what I tried to do to change my sleep schedule. My body has mostly been the same 3am latest time I have before my body tells me SLEEP, and 9am is when my body is ready to wake up.

 

[Stewox]

The CIA news network cares about the children, who would have thought.

Thank god I never saw the light of college, and never will.

I have one regular friend who is not such a sheeple but goes to college, the stories he tells me, total insanity, no wonder everybody toddles around like a zombie around there.

 

[quikah]

Man you guys are nuts, I pray they do this, I dread having to get up at 6:30 to get my kids to school by 8 (youngest is 4, have another year yet). I will probably go take a nap after I drop him off. Like 90% of the office doesn't roll in until about 10.

these early morning school times are pointless.

 

[Triumph]

I have no problem with this. It has nothing to do with modern spoiled kids - teenagers have been sleeping in late for generations. I don't know how many times I flat out skipped school just to sleep in. Stop trying to force teens' square physiology into a round hole.

 

[Stewox]

Man you guys are nuts, I pray they do this, I dread having to get up at 6:30 to get my kids to school by 8 (youngest is 4, have another year yet). I will probably go take a nap after I drop him off. Like 90% of the office doesn't roll in until about 10.

these early morning school times are pointless.

http://www.ronpaulcurriculum.com/
http://www.homeschoolpatriot.com/curriculum.html
http://www.khanacademy.org
https://www.facebook.com/TheLibertarianHomeschooler

Problem solved. 2 flies with one stone.

 

[who?]

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/the-case-against-high-school-sports/309447/
http://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...school-sports-arent-killing-academics/280155/

 

[Stewox]

teenagers have been sleeping in late for generations.

I don't remember that being the norm around here, it happened, it wasn't

Plus I had no problems in elementary school so it was doing it with excellence, one math teacher for example once put out a bonus task for a whole score, so I got the 10 which is a fancy 5 or A+, just doing some task that took whole 10 minutes, we were segregated into 3 classes for select subjects like math and language (part of the new law) so i was in the middle one, and while the others had no morale, even tho I was the biggest guy joking around, i just took the challenge and actually did it, to my own amazement made it through to a correct result, the whole class had wide eyes LIKE WTF, i pretty much joked around (telling jokes, writting nonsense in texbook etc, not crazy stuff) the rest of the hour

Everything changed in high school.


I only started skipping school when I got into severe depression and life-changes, took a few years for me to stabilise and school was going nowhere I was basically there 20% most of the time walking like a zombie around the city, when i fixed most of my problems outside school I found out the skipping of school was also causing me a side-effect which demoralized and made me weaker, it's the quilt feeling, the last thing holding me back, because I was indoctrinated and teached strictly not to miss a day of it, because it was "only path to successful life" so I decided to quit completely after I acquired enough wisdom and knowledge about the whole system being a piece of garbage that it is, after which I immediately recovered in matter of weeks, I have broken the ice set in stone in my mind, now my mind is free as it never was.


Then when finally in college, the guy with glasses half empty over there ... ehr im just joking, never been there never will be, bonvoyage skippers!

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/the-case-against-high-school-sports/309447/
http://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...school-sports-arent-killing-academics/280155/

(that's funny what they did there tho)

A: Common Core Public School > Mindless Sports
B: Mindless Sports > Common Core Public School

A - Result: An Idiot.
B - Result: An Idiot.

 

[Triumph]

I don't remember that being the norm around here, it happened, it wasn't

Plus I had no problems in elementary school so it was doing it with excellence, one math teacher for example once put out a bonus task for a whole score, so I got the 10 which is a fancy 5 or A+, just doing some task that took whole 10 minutes, we were segregated into 3 classes for select subjects like math and language (part of the new law) so i was in the middle one, and while the others had no morale, even tho I was the biggest guy joking around, i just took the challenge and actually did it, to my own amazement made it through to a correct result, the whole class had wide eyes LIKE WTF, i pretty much joked around (telling jokes, writting nonsense in texbook etc, not crazy stuff) the rest of the hour

Everything changed in high school.


I only started skipping school when I got into severe depression and life-changes, took a few years for me to stabilise and school was going nowhere I was basically there 20% most of the time walking like a zombie around the city, when i fixed most of my problems outside school I found out the skipping of school was also causing me a side-effect which demoralized and made me weaker, it's the quilt feeling, the last thing holding me back, because I was indoctrinated and teached strictly not to miss a day of it, because it was "only path to successful life" so I decided to quit completely after I acquired enough wisdom and knowledge about the whole system being a piece of garbage that it is, after which I immediately recovered in matter of weeks, I have broken the ice set in stone in my mind, now my mind is free as it never was.


Then when finally in college, the guy with glasses half empty over there ... ehr im just joking, never been there never will be, bonvoyage skippers!






(that's funny what they did there tho)

A: Common Core Public School > Mindless Sports
B: Mindless Sports > Common Core Public School

A - Result: An Idiot.
B - Result: An Idiot.

Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

[Mai72]

So you're telling me that Korean kids spend 18 hours in school? Let's assume another hour to get there and back, plus an hour of extra time, that means they get what, 4hrs of sleep per morning?

Yeah, sure.

Yes, High school kids do. They go to school early, and they normally finish very, very late.

 

[Imp]

Articles linked in OP missed this tidbit, but it's from the NPR:

But this is one area of health where the evidence is unequivocal, the pediatricians say. As children become teenagers, their sleep-wake cycle shifts two hours later, so it's difficult, if not impossible, for them to go to sleep before 10:30 p.m.

...

Caffeinating to get through the day or sleeping more on weekends doesn't make up for the sleep deficits, the doctors note. "It's not simply about getting teenagers to go to bed early or removing electronics from the bedroom," Owens says. "Those are important things, but the biology trumps a lot of these environmental factors. The average teenager can't fall asleep at 11."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/201...ay-school-should-start-later-for-teens-health

This CNN article does, but it's an "opinion" piece:

The root of the problem is that in puberty, a shift in circadian rhythms, or "body clocks," pushes optimal sleep time forward. Most teenagers simply can't fall asleep before 11 p.m. even if they're lying in bed for hours. When dawn rolls around, they haven't gotten close to the 8½ to 9½ hours of sleep their still-growing brains and bodies need.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/28/opinion/snider-school-later-start-times/

 

[Slew Foot]

So you're telling me that Korean kids spend 18 hours in school? Let's assume another hour to get there and back, plus an hour of extra time, that means they get what, 4hrs of sleep per morning?

Yeah, sure.

Sleep? Thats Starcraft time

 

[who?]

I wonder if this has anything to do with puberty and reproduction.

 

[sandorski]

I doubt schools are going to change their hours en masse based upon 1 study. However, if further study did produce similar results, then the question would be:

"Coddle" the students or coddle the OP and the others outraged by this?

 

[Bitek]

So you're telling me that Korean kids spend 18 hours in school? Let's assume another hour to get there and back, plus an hour of extra time, that means they get what, 4hrs of sleep per morning?

Yeah, sure.

Sleep? Who said anything about sleep? That's when they are doing homework.

 

[Bitek]

Man you guys are nuts, I pray they do this, I dread having to get up at 6:30 to get my kids to school by 8 (youngest is 4, have another year yet). I will probably go take a nap after I drop him off. Like 90% of the office doesn't roll in until about 10.

these early morning school times are pointless.

So true. Just wait until you get homework/activities on top.

Wife and I both work, so it's a struggle to get out of work, pick up kids (aftercare/whatever) get home, cook dinner, do homework (a lot more than when I was in school) and get them ready for bed and next day any time before 10.

That's not really even having any family time. My kids are still in elementary school even.

No point to having such absurdly early school times these days. Kids are not coming home to work in the fields, and the majority of adults don't get to work that early left on their own, so what are we preparing them for?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I doubt schools are going to change their hours en masse based upon 1 study. However, if further study did produce similar results, then the question would be:

"Coddle" the students or coddle the OP and the others outraged by this?

Our school is changing starting this year. This is something which has been obvious for some time so the study is confirmation more than anything else. Screwed up sleep is a serious health problem, but like the factors behind obesity, of which this is one, there will be deniers. Well we are a dysfunctional society from a biological perspective. Our god is a clock.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I wonder if this has anything to do with puberty and reproduction.

Probably.

Younger kids here will be going earlier and the older ones later.

 

[OverVolt]

The scientists are giving you the data, you can decide what to do with it, don't be all mad that they gave you data. Data doesn't coddle anyone or make anyone late for work.

To be fair the scientists are giving you the conclusion and you never see the data in a news article like this. Has that ever dawned on you or no?

Thats why correlation food studies say XYZ is bad for you one day and good for you the next. Eggs are bad for you. Eggs are also correlated with eating bacon, whod'a thought the average person who eats more eggs also eats more bacon. Eggs are also correlated with higher red meat consumption and smoking. Of course if you eat eggs and do none of those other things the study is useless.

They're basically taking a SWAG (Scientific wild ass guess) beyond anything other than "Evidence of short sleep duration, daytime sleepiness and excessive caffeine use indicate adolescents are sleeping fewer hours than needed." Cited in the actual abstract. That CNN article is one giant SWAG. You think citing a CNN article is acceptable as a footnote in a real scientific study? Its just a media angle. Such hook line and sinker. The video, is also pure SWAG. I know a lawyer who doesn't know what an electron is. Its like having a lawyer read you a science article. You can trust me, I went to graduate school I'm a lawyer! That CNN article is like nails on a chalkboard as far as science goes. It probably spreads more misinformation under the guise of science than if you had just looked at the actual freaking study.

 

[dainthomas]

I don't really see an issue. If you move the time to 9-10am, then they will just stay up until 3-4am instead of 1-2am. Who is going to take their kids to school at 9-10am? Most people are at work. That's why the times are early, so parents can get their kids to school as they go to work.

The issue with this is a lot of schools then let out at 2-230 to account for the earlier start. Most statistics show kids get into more trouble during the 2-3 hours until the parents get home from work than they do at other times.

Seems like 830-330 or 4 would be better.

 

[brycejones]

Our school is changing starting this year. This is something which has been obvious for some time so the study is confirmation more than anything else. Screwed up sleep is a serious health problem, but like the factors behind obesity, of which this is one, there will be deniers. Well we are a dysfunctional society from a biological perspective. Our god is a clock.

I really don't get the outrage from the OP or even the kooky shit from Stew over this. This is more biology related than some sign of bad parenting or the sign of demonic dehumanization of our bodily fluids.

Oh well I guess some folks just have trouble handling information that for some reason conflicts with their view of how the world should work.