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Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
I believe it did. Am I going to give evidence and make arguments in this forum about that, no.

Very curious why you need overwhelming evidence in perfect form and exact, proper grammar to accept scientific assertions, but you don't need the same for how you believe the Earth and we were created as read from an ancient text. Why is this?
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
The Christian God does not exist so he obviously does not fiddle with earth.
Please provide your evidence. Leave your emotions out of your presentation.
The question is why did he change the earth to conflict with his written word? The answer is to get as many smart people into hell as possible.
I don't accept the premise of your question. You shouldn't ask loaded questions.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
Very curious why you need overwhelming evidence in perfect form and exact, proper grammar to accept scientific assertions, but you don't need the same for how you believe the Earth and we were created as read from an ancient text. Why is this?
I don't need overwhelming evidence to believe scientific ideas. I need some kind of decent evidence that a microbe could turn into pine trees, aardvarks, and people. I find the evidence presented as story telling.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
I don't need overwhelming evidence to believe scientific ideas. I need some kind of decent evidence that a microbe could turn into pine trees, aardvarks, and people. I find the evidence presented as story telling.

And why then do you believe in actual storytelling (the bible)?
 

Cr0nJ0b

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2004
1,141
29
91
meettomy.site
I'm shocked they have dinosaurs. I just really don't get it. What is the timeframe that they think noah existed? Do they NOT believe in carbon dating? really? no...this isn't something that educated people really believe is it?
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,974
8,693
136
So did we find out how the kangaroos built their little rafts?

Do they keep their tools in their pouches?
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
The statements are rock solid taken as a whole. All the fluff you've said about them means nothing. Keep on making personal comments though, you're doing swell.

I'll quote the post again for posterity:

Who cares? 100k is the limit. Accuracy is unverifiable at those ranges.

Platinum alpha decays and has a half life of 1000 trillion years. Does that mean the universe must be older than that? Your logic doesn't hold up.

Rubidium has a half life of 49,000,000,000 years so it can theoretically test ages much older than you believe the universe to be. According to your logic the earth is older than 4.5 billion years. Is it?

If you or anyone can make sense of any logical connections between the individual simple statements or any surrounding context, then please elaborate. Surely it's easy enough for your own comment.

The factual reality is there's a huge miscommunication gap between you and others, where they assume you're drawing logical conclusions between sentences/statements when no such attempt was made in the first place.

This results in you denying such conclusions they try to falsify, which is fair enough because you never made them, and them getting annoying at the apparent weaseling.

--
Even worse, when they try to falsify the simple statements which are wrong, nothing substantial can possibly happen because you're largely parroting those "facts" from memory rather than any sort of mental synthesis. The 10^9 number/fact is something you read somewhere, so any questions regarding numerator/denominator/unit is frankly just gibberish to you.

Again, most people involved with science to some degree understand how such statements are derived, and they're simply unprepared to deal with this level of "understanding". It might look like you're conveying meaning because the mimicry is decent enough, but people are reading into it things you simply do not know.

The point here is to break down the situation at hand because the current miscommunication ensures that no progress can ever be made for obvious reasons.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,974
8,693
136
It's weird.

Either he really doesn't understand what people are saying. Which is moderately worrying as people have really dumbed it down for him.

Or he does understand what people are saying. Which is really tragic. Because he's in a place where he has to belive in something that he knows isn't true or possible.

I actually feel genuinely sorry for him.

Admittedly he's a pain in the arse so that makes it easier but still it's no way to see someone live their life.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
No one in this thread.


You however have insinuated we don't understand how to use radioactive decay to date things. Or that you maynot believe in radiometric dating. Whatever that means.

As one easy example, buckshot simply does not know how something trivial as radiodecay works. I mean, he's read the sentences about half-life and the word ratio used in there somewhere, but the mathematical concept behind decay isn't the kind of process that can be done in his head.

You can ask him how it might work with a certain (whatever hypothetical) element/isotope on a span of let's say a billion years, and it would just be a nonsense question to him. Unfortunately people talking about radioactive dating/timing will assume this background as a given, and naturally move onto subsequent logical connections/conclusion where he really has no idea what's going on.

Now imagine you're at a party with actual nuclear scientists conversing about details of a new plant type, and you've been just faking it all along throwing out keywords often enough. Then they turn to you and ask something which might as well be in klingon, and your "reputation" so to speak is on the line. I imagine the deflections and diversions might end up looking a bit like buckshot.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Just for fun I took your 4,525,000,000,000 km^3 of water number and used Wolfram Alpha to convert it to a rain rate.

I came up with 40 days of 2.5 M/s of rain across the entire earth. Or in inches per hour 364,000 in/hr. :O

If we take the biblical size of the ark and multiply the rain rate by the area of the ark we get a flow rate equal to 85% of the Mississippi River over the top of the ark for 40 days straight. Pretty good roof!


Well I'm convinced now.

LOL, I love the additional information. Since the specs of the ark are fairly specific I bet we could find out it's buoyancy and see if it could float with all of that constant water flow (water weighs a lot), especially with 2 of every animal on board. Assuming the Ark that was built with modern technology and materials is accurate, the roof doesn't have that much of a slope so the water isn't going to shed very quickly (I'm a roofing consultant/professional) and tons of water is going to get onto the top deck where the roof ends short. Normally I'd add in wind blown rain getting in that huge gap too but with the torrential waterfall coming off the roof it would take quite a bit of wind. Basically the top deck has to be watertight as well and be able to hold it's volume in water. I'm going to make an assumption that since it has a raised edge that appears to be a railing that it was meant to be accessed which means watertight doors that can withstand a whole lot of weight.


Edit: Screw the evolution argument guys. I want to see them defend this!
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
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Straw man much?

The OP is about an Ark attraction being open because obviously there are people that believe in the biblical flood story and Noah's ark. This is very relevant data pertaining to that and the feasibility of the story.

Yall are the ones that went off on a tangent about evolution and stuff, we are staying on topic.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Yes, that would be absolutely ridiculous levels of rain fall. Too bad that isn't what anybody thinks happened.

Wait, the bible said it rained for 40 days and then gave us a pretty specific point at which the water went up to. Are you saying the rain isn't what raised the water levels? If not then the amount of water required to reach the levels in the bible must have came from the rain and we can mathematically figure out how much rainfall that would require.

What does everyone think happened if not for whats it in the bible? If the water didn't come from rain why even mention the rain at all and exactly where did all that water come from, at least in the thinking of whoever you are talking about?
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
Very curious why you need overwhelming evidence in perfect form and exact, proper grammar to accept scientific assertions, but you don't need the same for how you believe the Earth and we were created as read from an ancient text. Why is this?

Because he just likes trolling.

It's obvious to begin with, but he has a pass on it for some reason.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
Wait, the bible said it rained for 40 days and then gave us a pretty specific point at which the water went up to. Are you saying the rain isn't what raised the water levels? If not then the amount of water required to reach the levels in the bible must have came from the rain and we can mathematically figure out how much rainfall that would require.

What does everyone think happened if not for whats it in the bible? If the water didn't come from rain why even mention the rain at all and exactly where did all that water come from, at least in the thinking of whoever you are talking about?

Nope, not just rain. Natural springs as well, buckshot made this known.
 
Feb 16, 2005
14,035
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Because he just likes trolling.

It's obvious to begin with, but he has a pass on it for some reason.

I was just thinking, bucky is nothing more than a troll, maybe it's time to just ignore the fool. Let him spin in his own world, and we can attempt to have a decent debate on topics.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Quantify this "huge difference". Why couldn't there be water under the earth? Why must it be an entire layer? How is it scientifically impossible? Saying things doesn't make them so.

Well there is water under the earth but for the most part we have to pump it up via some sort of mechanical means. I'm no geologist but I'm pretty sure that having more water hidden beneath the crust of the earth than in the oceans many many times over would have been known by now. The immense pressure alone of all that water turning to steam as it got closer to the earths core.

And we have a pretty good idea of the Earths mass, if that much water was present all of our calculations would be way off, I assume.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
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I was just thinking, bucky is nothing more than a troll, maybe it's time to just ignore the fool. Let him spin in his own world, and we can attempt to have a decent debate on topics.

It's not like he is ever going to actually be persuaded of anything/change his mind. He's here to disrupt and he's pretty good at it. Mind you, the crowd here makes it pretty easy for him most of the time by actually trying to debate him.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Physical reality is that water can and is trapped underneath the earth. You make up strawmen and argue against them as if they are the only possible way things could be. You don't have the emotional capacity to be anything but a hack on these subjects.

Oooh, another question! How did said water get up from inside the Earth and then back down into the earth in relatively the same salinity?
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
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This is where he is getting this from.

https://holysmoke.org/cretins/fludmath.html

He has the number wrong by a factor of 1000 for starters.

Yes that is where I got the number, first link I found and he seemed to have put a good bit of thought behind it. Please correct me where I am wrong and show the correct math, I would truly appreciate it.

Found something about the water coming from the ground:

Hydroplate. Walt Brown's model proposes that the Flood waters came from a layer of water about ten miles underground, which was released by a catastrophic rupture of the earth's crust, shot above the atmosphere, and fell as rain.

How was the water contained? Rock, at least the rock which makes up the earth's crust, doesn't float. The water would have been forced to the surface long before Noah's time, or Adam's time for that matter.

Even a mile deep, the earth is boiling hot, and thus the reservoir of water would be superheated. Further heat would be added by the energy of the water falling from above the atmosphere. As with the vapor canopy model, Noah would have been poached.

Where is the evidence? The escaping waters would have eroded the sides of the fissures, producing poorly sorted basaltic erosional deposits. These would be concentrated mainly near the fissures, but some would be shot thousands of miles along with the water. (Noah would have had to worry about falling rocks along with the rain.) Such deposits would be quite noticeable but have never been seen.
 
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bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
God destroyed the earth to get rid of wickedness. What a clever clever God he was. It almost worked too! I am curious to know if he was surprised to discover that this plan didn't work. Kind of weird to find out that an all-knowing God did not know apriori that a global flood wouldn't end wickedness. Also weird to know that an all-powerful God did his level best to end wickedness and failed. We have the Barney Fife of Gods I think.

What I really really love is that the civilization of Egypt existed before the flood, during the flood and after the flood. We have precise dating on this. Either God protected Egypt during the flood to such an extent as they did not even know it occurred or God when in after and faked a thousand or so years of Egyptian archaeology.

Last note, according to the Bible, Ham had some weird sex interaction with a passed out drunk Noah. It strikes me as odd that God would see Noah and his family as righteous.

Let's get the whole quote. We take it from the NKJV:

'And Noah began to be a farmer, and he planted a vineyard. Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. But Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and went backward and covered the nakedness of their father. Their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father's nakedness. So Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him. Then he said: "Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants he shall be to his brethren." And he said: "Blessed be the LORD, the God of Shem, and may Canaan be his servant. May God enlarge Japheth, and may he dwell in the tents of Shem; and may Canaan be his servant."'

Genesis 9:20-27.


At first sight this does not seem such a serious incident and many have wondered why the punishment for a young man seeing his father in a naked condition was so serious, after all they were both men. Also, this Scripture seems especially odd since the punishment seems to have been passed directly on to Noah's grandson (rather than his son). We must note that the text of Genesis here is less clear than one might wish so we have to work with various clues, including from other sections of Scripture. Overall, most Bible commentators (not all) feel that something else occurred which the text never specifically spells out.

So there might be much more to this text than immediately meets the eye!

Okay, let us consider this in more detail.

Much of the explanation may be found in the meaning of the Hebrew phrase, 'to look upon his/her nakedness.' Look up Leviticus 18:6-18 and 20:17. It is very clear that this phrase was used by the Hebrews to describe the sexual sin which occurred following seeing the nakedness of another. In this case, the sin of incest seems to be the problem. Here Noah apparently carelessly left himself uncovered in his tent (v. 21), whereupon his son Ham saw his 'nakedness' [Heb. 'erwa' = 'his genitals'] (v. 22); and then apparently performed a sexual act, probably masturbation, upon his weakened father (however, since the curse was pronounced on Canaan rather than upon Ham, some believe that Ham employed his son to perform the act upon Noah - v. 24). So, almost certainly, and in a completely depraved manner, Noah was probably masturbated (there is another explanation which we will consider later). Presumably Noah was drunk and did not react, and in his weakened state, might even have disgracefully enjoyed the act. But when he became sober, Noah was both ashamed and furious at what had happened. The text strongly suggests that whereas Shem and Japheth were horrified at noting Noah's careless nakedness, Ham exploited the situation. So Ham 'saw the nakedness of his father,' and seems to have been wholly responsible (although, as already alluded to, some think that the actual sexual act was performed by Canaan). This caused Ham to be removed from receiving any blessing from Noah, and Canaan, his son, was pronounced to be the future father of servants. Putting it all together, it seems most likely that Canaan, Ham's son, was not involved in the act but the curse was placed upon him possibly because he was Ham's favourite son.

It is surely interesting that a state of drunkeness leads to another act of incest in Genesis. This was when Lot's daughters deliberately got their father drunk in order to have sex with him. It is recounted in Genesis 19:30-35. So this was paternal incest.
 
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