Question ARM lawsuit against QCOM/Nuvia !

[Thibsie]

Arm Files Lawsuit Against Qualcomm and Nuvia for Breach of License Agreements and Trademark Infringement

Arm filed a lawsuit against Qualcomm Inc. and two of its subsidiaries (“Qualcomm”) and Nuvia, Inc. (“Nuvia”) in the US District Court for the District of Delaware for breach of certain license agreements with Arm and trademark infringement.

www.arm.com

Yummy, don't you think ?

 

[R81Z3N1]

That was my point, ARM's attorney's did not clarify or take advantage of what could be a great opportunity to put aside the story.

For instance if your a company going to develop a new device and wonder if it would be safe to put your egg's into the ARM basket; after hearing what was said would it give you the warm and fuzzy to invest?

They had an opportunity to really clarify things but instead blame Qualcomm and muddy the waters more. Why do that if they are confident in product stake and business model.

If folks are that confident, you don't make statements like that, you reassure your base and clarify your statements. I wonder just how many future licenses they will loose because of such a stance.

R81Z3N1

 

[A///]

any chance of apple bankrolling this lawsuit on behalf of arm/softbank?

 

[poke01]

any chance of apple bankrolling this lawsuit on behalf of arm/softbank?

Nope. Apple will not get involved.

 

[Roland00Address]

So Qualcomm announced Nuvia in 2023 (if all goes according to plan)

[this was a few hours ago]

 

[Doug S]

any chance of apple bankrolling this lawsuit on behalf of arm/softbank?

Why? How does Apple benefit?

Qualcomm having a core that's competitive with Apple does not hurt Apple. People haven't been switching from Android to iPhone due to performance, there wouldn't be a switch back even if Qualcomm had SoCs that were better.

People also aren't buying Macs because they are ARM, but some (unknown) number of people are NOT buying Macs because they are ARM - the people who need to run Windows stuff. This was feasible with x86 Macs, and while possible with ARM Macs it isn't a smooth process and currently isn't supported by Microsoft so no enterprise licensee would consider it.

Having ARM PCs that were a match for x86 PCs (ignoring the high end stuff like AMD's model X and Intel's model K that people here think matter so much but 95% of the market doesn't care about) would force Microsoft and Windows devs to support Windows/ARM on an equal basis with Windows/x86, which would be a real positive for Apple selling the Mac to the enterprise market.

I agree with poke01 that Apple will not get involved because no possible outcome makes any difference to their perpetual license, but if they did I wouldn't be so sure they'd be rooting against Qualcomm.

 

[DrMrLordX]

So Qualcomm announced Nuvia in 2023 (if all goes according to plan)

That's interesting. You got any links? I can possibly find it myself, but it would be helpful for the forum.

edit: nevermind, found at least one article about it:

Qualcomm dubs Nuvia CPU 'Oryon,' on track for 2023

Qualcomm has named its Nuvia CPU "Oryon," claiming that it will ship next year despite a lawsuit from Arm.

www.pcworld.com

 

[Roland00Address]

Sorry I did not post links last night. I saw it on twitter when they were doing the event live and thus people were tweeting. Articles would come later when writers had time to write them

And I have not had time to look this morning to find the best article.

 

[FlameTail]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...sQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3rR8cNnDi__IS0Sy_qh3vb

[/URL]

So Qualcomm is going ahead full steam, despite the lawsuit?

 

[Thala]

So Qualcomm is going ahead full steam, despite the lawsuit?

Currently the lawsuit has no direct impact to engineering and only limited impact to marketing. Whatever they develop under the Qualcomm ALA, they are allowed to do so. The dispute is about the old Nuvia IP.

 

[Doug S]

Currently the lawsuit has no direct impact to engineering and only limited impact to marketing. Whatever they develop under the Qualcomm ALA, they are allowed to do so. The dispute is about the old Nuvia IP.

That assumes what they plan to release end of next year contains no Nuvia IP. If a court believes it does, ARM could ask for an injunction to prevent them from selling anything containing those cores and a judge may grant it.

 

[BorisTheBlade82]

Putting Oryon to rest would be like a confession. As long as nothing is decided by court, this is a sane way to move forward. A court ruling might take years and they do clearly see their risks and rewards.

 

[Doug S]

Putting Oryon to rest would be like a confession. As long as nothing is decided by court, this is a sane way to move forward. A court ruling might take years and they do clearly see their risks and rewards.

Injunctions are typically handed out prior to a ruling, if the judge believes "the case is likely to succeed on its merits". So Qualcomm better be awfully sure of themselves, or have a backup plan in the form of a ground up design that isn't built upon IP developed at Nuvia in case Oryon can't be sold.

 

[BorisTheBlade82]

@Doug S
Right, they should in any case have a Plan B.

 

[Thala]

So Qualcomm better be awfully sure of themselves, or have a backup plan in the form of a ground up design that isn't built upon IP developed at Nuvia in case Oryon can't be sold.

A backup plan based on a ground up design does not really help. It could be a ground-up design today already. As you correctly are pointing out, the only thing that matters is, what the judge believe it is. The proof needs to be presented by ARM and some evidence is most likely not sufficient.
It is absolutely clear, that the Nuvia team is able to recreate the IP, which they developed at Nuvia - it could as well be a carbon copy of the original. ARMs main argument here is, that it would take more time than 2 years to recreate such IP.

 

[FlameTail]

Dr Ian Cutress!

FINALLY

 

[Shivansps]

This kinda remembers me the Motorala lawsuit against Mos for the 6501 in the end Mos could do nothing as they were unable to paid the lawyers and had to settle.

 

[FlameTail]

What server SoC?

Didn't Qualcomm say they focusing on laptops and phones first?

Source:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/xyur4g

Interesting discussion on reddit about the lawsuit.

 

[DrMrLordX]

What server SoC?

Notice the words in parenthesis:

(started pre-acquisition)

That's likely the core Nuvia had already developed prior to Qualcomm's buyout.

 

[FlameTail]

Notice the words in parenthesis:

(started pre-acquisition)

That's likely the core Nuvia had already developed prior to Qualcomm's buyout.

It says "SoC", not "Core".

We do know they developed the Phoenix core for servers, but did they make an SoC?

Edit: Of course! The Orion SoC!

 

[FlameTail]

Regarding the fifth point: So ARM wanted Nuvia engineers to just sit around for 3 years? Disgraceful.

 

[DrMrLordX]

It says "SoC", not "Core".

We do know they developed the Phoenix core for servers, but did they make an SoC?

They probably had an entire server CPU/SoC designed at Nuvia prior to the acquisition. It might not have been in silicon (honestly I don't know) but it stands to reason.