Armed officer at Florida school sheltered in place instead of confronting shooter

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pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,139
5,074
136
When Coral Springs police officers arrived at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on February 14 in the midst of the school shooting crisis, many officers were surprised to find not only that Broward County Sheriff's Deputy Scot Peterson, the armed school resource officer, had not entered the building, but that three other Broward County Sheriff's deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school.
...
With direction from the Broward deputies who were outside, Coral Springs police soon entered the building where the shooter was. New Broward County Sheriff's deputies arrived on the scene, and two of those deputies and an officer from Sunrise, Florida, joined the Coral Springs police as they went into the building.
Some Coral Springs police were stunned and upset that the four original Broward County Sheriff's deputies who were first on the scene did not appear to join them as they entered the school, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. It's unclear whether the shooter was still in the building when they arrived.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkland-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,059
38,568
136
Oh woops, it's called a AWM now. It used to be called AWP iirc

Technically the .338 versions are super mags, so AWSM. It comes in .308 and .300 Win Mag flavors too though.

I thought the AWP term was a slur, from the Counterstrike days, used by people who hated getting popped from afar. "%$!@%! you Arctic Warfare Pussy!'
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,059
38,568
136
Guy should be ashamed of himself. How do you call this anything other than cowardice?

You have a gun, you hear gunshots and screams, you know kids are being murdered. And, as one of the few armed people in the place, you don't try to intervene.

God help this guy.

All those guys. You and I don't really agree on much, but FWIW I want you to know we are in full agreement here.

I'm sure they could tell it was a single shooter. Being a LEO is being keenly aware of the relationship between time, distance and death during shootings, it's kind of a big deal. Fear prevented them from acknowledging that math though. I refuse to believe a desire to follow regs outweighed the lives of those they could hear being shot. They should have had the resolve to end with it with an ambush from behind, preferably mag dumps at close range. When the enemy is busy, you maneuver then you kill him. You don't demand disarmament when outgunned (assuming they all had pistols and maybe shotguns)

At the rate these tragedies have been happening, I'm appalled at the lack of action. At the very least they could have occupied the shooter with an exchange, get the shooter's attention off the kids.
 
Last edited:
Jul 9, 2009
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When seconds count the police are only minutes away. or maybe just standing around drinking coffee and waiting for back up.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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Who? Billy badass? Or grandpa, here is a gun to play with so you will stay away from my guns?
Look at the failure of the damn government officials that are paid to keep schools, students and citizens safe.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-tip-line-caller-said-nikolas-cruz-is-going-to-explode-1519415442


"....................
The transcript, reviewed by The Wall Street Journal, provides chilling detail about the woman’s efforts on Jan. 5 to warn authorities about Nikolas Cruz’s propensity for violence and his troubled past. The caller’s identification was redacted from the transcript, but the tip-line operator called her “ma’am.” (Read the transcript; redactions by FBI.)

“You know, it’s just so much,” she said on the call. “I know he’s—he’s going to explode.” She said she was making the call because she wanted a “clear conscience if he takes off and, and just starts shooting places up.”

The FBI last week acknowledged receiving such a call, which it said was from a person close to Mr. Cruz. But the transcript and the stark nature of the caller’s precise warnings about Mr. Cruz’s disturbing actions and volatile temperament, previously hasn’t been made public.

The caller began by saying Mr. Cruz had the mental capacity of a 12- or 14-year-old. She said he had started posting messages on his Instagram account that he wanted to kill himself and she’d alerted police to that threat, but wasn’t sure what happened in that investigation.

More recently, Mr. Cruz “switched it to he wants to kill people,” the unidentified woman told the operator in a somewhat rambling conversation."


Yeah, but so what. It's just another failure by the bureaucrat government clowns you trust to keep you and yours safe.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
1. The fact is none of us really know how we would react to these situations until we are put to the test. Will we run toward the gunfire, into the burning building, etc? Unless you've been there, done that, I wouldn't judge this guy too harshly. Obviously, this guys in the wrong profession and he's going to his grave wondering if he could've made a difference.

I agree that no body knows what they would do in that situation, unless they were there. But cops should be trained enough to know they will respond, especially one near retirement. My guess is he has probably had a lot of incidents in the past were he acted as a coward and it never caught up to him.

I personally think he should be charged. I know if a life guard refuses to attempt a rescue or perform CPR they can be charged (can't remember the specific law ATM), the same should apply to a cop. They should be compelled to respond and if they fail to do so, be punished.

3. I'm not a fan of forcing teachers to carry guns. If we want armed guards in our schools then we should pony up for it. I know schools are already underfunded. If a teacher wants to carry a gun in school then I think we should make sure they have training and have a good way to secure it if it's not being carried. I've read that there's quite a few teachers in Utah who are (legally) armed in the classroom but the school is not allowed to ask them if they are carrying. I think parents have the right to know if there's a gun in their children's classroom.

IMHO, the only way a teacher should ever have a gun in a classroom is if it is a smart gun that can only be fired by them. But for some reason the NRA hates smart guns. Overall, I think the risk/benefit equation on armed teachers is much more tilted to the risk side, though.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
What deserves the blame is the shooter, as well as all adults for creating such a dangerous situation where a disturbed individual could easily lay hands on highly lethal weaponry, and the only hope of limiting the count of dead children is the thin shield of an untested and outgunned single man.

Why we trust such an obviously flawed system to protect our children from being slaughtered is beyond my comprehension.
 
Reactions: Thebobo

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,337
15,133
136
No, instead you try to call me and others out.

Gotta love authoritarians.

How did I call you out? Did I say you were wrong to feel the way you did? Did I tell you that you aren't allowed to feel angry at the guy? Did I say that anyone that doesn't think like I do is wrong?
Look at the failure of the damn government officials that are paid to keep schools, students and citizens safe.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-tip-line-caller-said-nikolas-cruz-is-going-to-explode-1519415442


"....................
The transcript, reviewed by The Wall Street Journal, provides chilling detail about the woman’s efforts on Jan. 5 to warn authorities about Nikolas Cruz’s propensity for violence and his troubled past. The caller’s identification was redacted from the transcript, but the tip-line operator called her “ma’am.” (Read the transcript; redactions by FBI.)

“You know, it’s just so much,” she said on the call. “I know he’s—he’s going to explode.” She said she was making the call because she wanted a “clear conscience if he takes off and, and just starts shooting places up.”

The FBI last week acknowledged receiving such a call, which it said was from a person close to Mr. Cruz. But the transcript and the stark nature of the caller’s precise warnings about Mr. Cruz’s disturbing actions and volatile temperament, previously hasn’t been made public.

The caller began by saying Mr. Cruz had the mental capacity of a 12- or 14-year-old. She said he had started posting messages on his Instagram account that he wanted to kill himself and she’d alerted police to that threat, but wasn’t sure what happened in that investigation.

More recently, Mr. Cruz “switched it to he wants to kill people,” the unidentified woman told the operator in a somewhat rambling conversation."


Yeah, but so what. It's just another failure by the bureaucrat government clowns you trust to keep you and yours safe.


Lol! You just highlighted multiple levels of incompetence for people who are paid to do a certain job and now you want to give people a gun as a secondary duty and you think there won't be even more incompetence? You gun nutters are dumber than rocks!
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,682
7,181
136
Some info on what the LEO Community have been discussing in regards to preventing and responding to active shooter incidences: http://www.policeforum.org/assets/docs/Critical_Issues_Series/the police response to active shooter incidents 2014.pdf

"Police also are changing their policies, increasing training, and working with their communities to reduce the number of victims when mass shootings do occur. The most sweeping changes in this area are the new policies and practices about what officers do when they arrive at an active shooting scene. Today’s police departments focus on stopping the shooter as quickly as possible, with fast action by the officers who arrive first, rather than waiting for SWAT teams to arrive. Speeding the response by even a minute or two can result in many lives being saved."

A step in the right direction but there's still one issue that any amount of training/prep won't prepare a LEO for: It's that instant in time where a LEO has to deal with their own fight or flight instinct, especially when they are faced with this issue alone and on their own and they are forced to rely on their own judgement to decide.

We can say that the LEO didn't have enough training or didn't have what it takes to get the job done because we have the luxury of looking at the situation from the outside in with 20/20 hindsight.

All I can say about that is that any given LEO will never really know how they're going to react in any given situation until it actually happens, especially so when things around them are happening way too fast for them to keep up with. The panic/flee button then becomes a really nice option to default to. Training kicks in a whole lot better when there's someone else a guy can rely on to take action. The bravery factor takes a nice big leap in the right direction then, especially so when they're not in the immediate line of fire and are given the luxury of deciding to commit their lives to the situation or not.

The LEO had his trial by fire where his survival instinct had a really intense and very brief discussion with his job description. His compromise was to hunker down and not flee. As a personal choice for survival in a situation that is overwhelming to most folks, well, it comes down to making an on the spot decision and then living or dying with the consequences.

I think he was of the opinion that the specific job he signed up for didn't include having to risk his life as he would have if he were working the streets. As a result, when imminent risk of life presented itself to him he was totally unprepared for it and reacted accordingly.

Not looking to excuse his behavior, just saying it's human nature to have a mindset for any given situation and when that mindset is instantly and unexpectedly shattered in such horrific fashion, well, who knows how any single person on their own will react to that kind of scenario.
 
Reactions: ivwshane

a777pilot

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2011
4,261
21
81
Well, it looks like there were at least four that did not do there job that day. They just hid till more firepower arrived. I wonder how many of the beautiful children would be alive today if just one of them had charged in to find the shooter and kill him. From reading recent history most school shooters will kill themselves the moment they are confronted by an armed person.

Let those teachers that wish to be armed to be armed. They are the first line of defense. They have a right to protect themselves and those they are responsible to protect.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,819
1,126
126
Well it looks like the marching orders have been put out there by the NRA. Expect more socks to tag in and spew the sell more guns at all costs bullshit...

Some cops can't bring themselves to engage an active shooter but your want Miss Wagner who teaches 1st grade to... Plus you'll pay her extra to carry but you won't fund her students education enough for them to have textbooks and pencils. You pukes don't even pretend to care about our children any longer... You've been emboldened... To put others in harms way... How brave.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,000
18,346
146
Well it looks like the marching orders have been put out there by the NRA. Expect more socks to tag in and spew the sell more guns at all costs bullshit...

Some cops can't bring themselves to engage an active shooter but your want Miss Wagner who teaches 1st grade to... Plus you'll pay her extra to carry but you won't fund her students education enough for them to have textbooks and pencils. You pukes don't even pretend to care about our children any longer... You've been emboldened... To put others in harms way... How brave.
Or properly fund schools to adequately and adeptly manage the mental health of their students.
 
Jul 9, 2009
10,723
2,064
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The only ones who did the job they were hired to do exactly as they were supposed to do it was the National Rifle Association.
 
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