Armed officer at Florida school sheltered in place instead of confronting shooter

[Maxima1]

I'm just saying the poor fool is there by himself probably no body armor with a crappy 9mm and he has no idea how many shooters there are and where they are and you expect him to go charging into a building. That's a bunch of TV malarkey.

But of course the aashole elected sherrif has to blames someone not him of course. He needs to worry about getting elected.

It's protocol to engage the shooter. Why do you act as if he's the under dog here? You realize that they are sworn officers? If they're not fulfilling the primary objective of safety for the kids, then they deserve the same wage & benefits as a Wally world security guard.

 

[Subyman]

Fox News is calling him a coward. Wonder how many tough guy gun totters would actually run into a building that sounds like a warzone with only a dinky pistol or shotgun? Not sure what the police policy is in that situation. Probably not to run in by yourself, probably to wait for backup.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Listen asshole, I can admit I don't have the stones to run into a shootout unless a loved one's life is at stake. We all know you are a big hero. Now unless you are going to do that job go fuck yourself.

The sheer numbers of police it would take to properly secure schools isn't feasible.

Giving faculty and administrators the opportunity to arm themselves and get the training is feasible though and it's going to be done.

 

[Thebobo]

[QUOTE="Maxima1, post: 39320239, member: 321295"]It's protocol to engage the shooter. Why do you act as if he's the under dog here? You realize that they are sworn officers? If they're not fulfilling the primary objective of safety for the kids, then they deserve the same wage & benefits as a Wally world security guard.[/QUOTE]

And you know this for a fact, have a link?

You don't know how many there are, where they are, are they barricaded, do they have hostages. You have no clue.

 

[Mxylplyx]

I think it's quite obvious that not all cops, probably only a minority, can live up to the hero label that is constantly foisted upon them. The word "hero" is thrown around in this country in an incredibly irresponsible manner, often ascribed to people that have done nothing heroic. Cops, and soldiers, dont sign on the dotted line and suddenly become a hero. Few are ever presented with situations as stark as the one this resourced officer faced, with a decision on whether to confront the better armed shooter ALONE with no backup. Cops dont sign up for that shit, despite people thinking they do. I would guess that a good number of them, perhaps even most would have done the same thing. This guy will have to live with his decision to do nothing when he could have done something, and it might even drive him to suicide, and we should all be thankful that we will likely never have to face a situation where we are forced to reveal what we are really made of, because most of us would probably be disappointed.

 

[Thebobo]

Giving faculty and administrators the opportunity to arm themselves and get the training is feasible though and it's going to be done.

Its Stephen Miller!

 

[Jaskalas]

If he's to wait for backup, then there's not really much of a point to having him there. Should have been his duty to go in, but it was at least within his discretion.

If the shooter would have walked into his LOS then I'm somewhat confident he would have confronted him. If for no one reason than an attempt at self preservation. The issue is he's just one guy who was clearly not looking to get into a gunfight VS an AR-15. Wrong guy for the job? Probably. There are many other cops in this nation who would have run into the line of fire.

It's a shame, but not everyone is willing to risk their life for others.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

That Sheriff is an asshole, he is in an elected office and as such he acted just like a politician, blame someone else because he wants to be reelected.
As for the "guard," I am no expert but when have they ever taught you to go willy nilly running into a building by yourself where you have no clue how many or where the shooters are. One person vs unknown?

Don't they tell you to wait for backup in cases like this?

I've no idea. If you hear children getting shot, and you have a gun, do you feel obligated to try to stop the shooter?

Back during the Columbine School shooting deputies under Sheriff Stone assembled and waited 45 minutes before entering the school. They waited for the full assembly of SWAT teams. They waited while the 2 shooters continued to kill and in some cases assassinate children. Later during the investigation Sheriff Stone destroyed files, tapes and documents to cover up some of the inaction by police. Not only were the majority of kids killed while the police sat around outside while it was going on, but a teachers slowly bled to death waiting hours for help. Since then the policy has been for armed officers to engage with the shooter as soon as possible.

 

[Maxima1]

And you know this for a fact, have a link?

You don't know how many there are, where they are, are they barricaded, do they have hostages. You have no clue.

It's just common sense.

At Arapahoe High School, where senior Claire Davis, 17, was critically injured before the shooter turned the gun on himself,

law enforcement officers responded within minutes and immediately entered the school to confront the gunman rather than

surrounding the building, authorities said. As the sound of shots reverberated through the corridors, teachers immediately

followed procedures put in place after Columbine, locking the doors and moving students to the rear of classrooms.


"That's straight out of Columbine," Kenneth Trump, president of National School Safety and Security Services, a Cleveland-

based consulting firm, told CNN Saturday. "The goal is to proceed and neutralize the shooter. Columbine really

revolutionized the way law enforcement responds to active shooters." Arapahoe County Sheriff Grayson Robinson credited

the quick police response time for the fact that student Karl Pierson, the gunman, stopped firing on others and turned his

weapon on himself

 

[Thebobo]

Maybe it's because he had no idea where the shooter was.

 

[Thebobo]

It's just common sense.

law enforcement officers responded within minutes and immediately entered the school to confront the gunman rather than

Notice the plural, ie more than one.

 

[OutHouse]

Same thing happened at Columbine in Colorado. They had 2 cops on campus.

"But by the time the first SWAT team was assembled and geared up to enter the building, it was 12:06 - 47 minutes after the shooting had begun. "
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-really-happened-at-columbine/

More would be known about how badly the police screwed up, but Sheriff Stone destroyed evidence to hide how bad it really was.

I watched that live on the local stations. i was screaming at the TV. WTF are you doing!!! stop standing around being gear queens and get your asses in that school.

 

[Maxima1]

Notice the plural, ie more than one.

And we have cases of one. Stop acting as if an officer is somehow some big under dog vs. a broken teen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granite_Hills_High_School_(El_Cajon,_California)#Shooting

"During fifth period, minutes after lunch period had ended on March 22, 2001, 18-year-old Former GHHS Student, Jason Hoffman arrived on campus and opened fire on the attendance office, which also houses the principal and vice principals' offices, from the outside. Five people were either injured by shrapnel or suffered severe symptoms from the traumatic experience but few victims incurred bullet wounds. Hoffman was shot in the buttocks and jaw. He was arrested by police officer Rich Agundez, who had been on campus during school hours since the shooting two weeks earlier at a high school within the same district, Santana High School.[5] Hoffman would later commit suicide by hanging himself from bedsheets in his prison cell in November 2002."

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Maybe it's because he had no idea where the shooter was.

Pity the shooter wasn't announcing his location in any way, perhaps by way of a flashing light or a loud noise or something.

Oh wait.

If the local officer isn't going to even attempt to engage an active shooter until backup arrives, what's the point of him being paid to be there? You had unarmed, untrained civilians protecting each other like rock stars. As far as I'm concerned, this guy is a coward. Now, nothing specifically wrong with that, not everyone's gonna pull out their 9mm and go headlong into a fight with an AR, but don't sign up to be a fucking defender of citizens unless you intend to defend citizens.

And every fucking person calling for guards and guns in schools need to keep this shit in mind, it is NOT necessarily going to protect against an active shooter. You CANNOT list that as a guarantee in the 'pro' column.

 

[Thebobo]

And we have cases of one. Stop acting as if an officer is somehow some big under dog vs. a broken teen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granite_Hills_High_School_(El_Cajon,_California)#Shooting

"During fifth period, minutes after lunch period had ended on March 22, 2001, 18-year-old Former GHHS Student, Jason Hoffman arrived on campus and opened fire on the attendance office, which also houses the principal and vice principals' offices, from the outside. Five people were either injured by shrapnel or suffered severe symptoms from the traumatic experience but few victims incurred bullet wounds. Hoffman was shot in the buttocks and jaw. He was arrested by police officer Rich Agundez, who had been on campus during school hours since the shooting two weeks earlier at a high school within the same district, Santana High School.[5] Hoffman would later commit suicide by hanging himself from bedsheets in his prison cell in November 2002."

Well he didn't know it was a broken teen

 

[Maxima1]

Well he didn't know it was a broken teen

Yeah, it's so likely he's some Navy SEAL something something. Why do you keep coming up with these asinine excuses? The fact is that it makes much more sense for the protocol to be to engage the shooter. Anything else is just self-serving BS and exposes SROs as just a gravy train position.

 

[Thebobo]

Pity the shooter wasn't announcing his location in any way, perhaps by way of a flashing light or a loud noise or something.

Oh wait.

If the local officer isn't going to even attempt to engage an active shooter until backup arrives, what's the point of him being paid to be there? You had unarmed, untrained civilians protecting each other like rock stars. As far as I'm concerned, this guy is a coward. Now, nothing specifically wrong with that, not everyone's gonna pull out their 9mm and go headlong into a fight with an AR, but don't sign up to be a fucking defender of citizens unless you intend to defend citizens.

And every fucking person calling for guards and guns in schools need to keep this shit in mind, it is NOT necessarily going to protect against an active shooter. You CANNOT list that as a guarantee in the 'pro' column.

Look we agree on arming schools it's probably not a good thing I am just saying this guy should not be the scapegoat for their deaths.

 

[Thebobo]

Yeah, it's so likely he's some Navy SEAL something something. Why do you keep coming up with these asinine excuses? The fact is that it makes much more sense for the protocol to be to engage the shooter. Anything else is just self-serving BS and exposes SROs as just a gravy train position.

You're the one making assumptions.

 

[HomerJS]

Fox News is calling him a coward. Wonder how many tough guy gun totters would actually run into a building that sounds like a warzone with only a dinky pistol or shotgun? Not sure what the police policy is in that situation. Probably not to run in by yourself, probably to wait for backup.

Same Fox News chicken hawks were so gung-ho to go into Iraq

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Look we agree on arming schools it's probably a good thing I am just saying this guy should not be the scapegoat for their deaths.

I'm not, I'm just stating that he could have performed an action, and didn't due to cowardice. Should he be scarlet letter'd for that? Nah, most folks are cowards. I just want others to bear that in mind when they suggest that arming random-ass teachers and stuff is going to make this 'problem' go away.

 

[Thebobo]

I'm not, I'm just stating that he could have performed an action, and didn't due to cowardice. Should he be scarlet letter'd for that? Nah, most folks are cowards. I just want others to bear that in mind when they suggest that arming random-ass teachers and stuff is going to make this 'problem' go away.

Ops I meat not a good thing

 

[pauldun170]

It doesn't feel right attacking this officer for not rushing in. It doesn't feel right tossing the officers name up in the headlines next to "coward".

 

[Maxima1]

You're the one making assumptions.

I was right about the protocol. You keep trying to argue against it, despite the protocol being common sense.

I just want others to bear that in mind when they suggest that arming random-ass teachers and stuff is going to make this 'problem' go away.

How are they "random ***"? They have to get concealed carry permit, and teachers need to jump through hoops themselves in many states to get hired.

It doesn't feel right attacking this officer for not rushing in. It doesn't feel right tossing the officers name up in the headlines next to "coward".

I would agree if he had the same responsibilities (note: he's trained to confront active shooters) and pay as a Wally world security guard, but he's not. He gets more than double and a pension that beats most of the private sector. The public should be angry over this guy's inaction

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

How are they "random ***"? They have to get concealed carry permit, and teachers need to jump through hoops themselves in many states to get hired.

Because this is an individual who was trained, hired, and paid, to intervene in an active shooter situation. Even in that most specific, narrow scope of responsibility, he failed. How the hell can you expect someone who takes this duty up as a secondary/tertiary role to hop up and skip down the hallway toward a long gun, and be in any way effective?

 

[FIVR]

We can't expect police officers to do the jobs we hire them for because those jobs are very hard. It is very hard to protect kids from a shooter and we as a society all knew that when we hired this cop to protect these kids. We knew this officer couldn't do the job, but we gave it to him anyway. He is actually a victim.


If you consider that the stated job of police is to protect society, then 95% of US Police are basically on welfare anyway. They are superfluous municipal revenue generation workers with firearms who are not actually expected to stop crimes or protect anybody. We hire completely untrained high school graduates with no skills besides maybe some experiences shooting Iraqi or Afghani civilians and put them to work harassing minorities and homeless people then when a shooter comes around we all throw up our hands and say "why didn't the brave officer save us??". What do we expect?