Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl
Is the cupboard really that bare??? Eh, ironic what the ski resorts use them for at the least.
Remember, if it were up to John Kerry's voting record, we wouldn't have even had the Patriot missile...talk about bare!
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl
Is the cupboard really that bare??? Eh, ironic what the ski resorts use them for at the least.
I guess so???
Remember, if it were up to John Kerry's voting record, we wouldn't have even had the Patriot missile...talk about bare!
Originally posted by: Ronstang
Why is this sad? Those damn resorts need to pony up the $$$ for their own safety equipment instead of getting a ride off of Uncle Sam. Last time I checked you will have to pay big $$$ to go to a ski resort so I think they can afford a few older decomissioned 105s....it's not like they need the latest and greatest artillery equipment because I'm sure that mountains don't move, or shoot back.
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl
Is the cupboard really that bare??? Eh, ironic what the ski resorts use them for at the least.
I guess so???
Remember, if it were up to John Kerry's voting record, we wouldn't have even had the Patriot missile...talk about bare!
Originally posted by: Bleep
Remember, if it were up to John Kerry's voting record, we wouldn't have even had the Patriot missile...talk about bare!
Prove this statement!!!!!!
Bleep
Kerry also supported canceling and cutting funds for the B-2 Stealth Bomber, the B-1B, the F-15, the F-16, the M1 Abrams, the Patriot Missile, the AH-64 Apache Helicopter, the Tomahawk Cruise Missile, and the Aegis Air-Defense Cruiser, according to a Boston Globe report from June 19, 2003.
Yeah the Iraqi insurgents are firing hundreds of Scud missiles at our troops every day :roll:Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl
Is the cupboard really that bare??? Eh, ironic what the ski resorts use them for at the least.
I guess so???
Remember, if it were up to John Kerry's voting record, we wouldn't have even had the Patriot missile...talk about bare!
Originally posted by: Horus
That's fvcking disgraceful....I though the americans were supposed to have GOOD arty? What the hell do you need 105MM's for, when you've got the 155 towed, 155 SPH, and those MLRS launchers?!?
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: Bleep
Remember, if it were up to John Kerry's voting record, we wouldn't have even had the Patriot missile...talk about bare!
Prove this statement!!!!!!
Bleep
Kerry opposed key weapons
Bush Campaign Says Kerry's Voting Record Is Fair Game
Kerry also supported canceling and cutting funds for the B-2 Stealth Bomber, the B-1B, the F-15, the F-16, the M1 Abrams, the Patriot Missile, the AH-64 Apache Helicopter, the Tomahawk Cruise Missile, and the Aegis Air-Defense Cruiser, according to a Boston Globe report from June 19, 2003.
On March 23, a British Tornado fighter jet with two men aboard took off from Kuwait. It was the third day of the war, and there was no Iraqi opposition flying.
Their flight should have gone off without a hitch, according to retired Air Vice Marshall Tony Mason, who is advising a British Parliamentary inquiry into what happened next: ?They had fulfilled their mission and they were returning without weapons back to base.?
Mason says the aircraft was in friendly airspace when it was destroyed by a Patriot missile.
. . .
On March 25, a U.S. Air Force pilot flying an F-16 fighter jet got a signal that he was being targeted by radar he believed was coming from an enemy missile system. He fired one of his own missiles in self-defense and hit the system that was tracking him -- not an enemy, but the Patriot battery where Riggs was reporting.
. . .
On April 2, U.S. Navy Pilot Lt. Nathan White took on his 14th mission of the war. It had been 11 days since the Patriot had shot down a British Tornado fighter jet, and nine days since it had threatened an F-16.
Lt. White took off from the deck of the U.S.S. Kitty Hawk into skies being scanned by Patriots. Navy officials told his father, Dennis White, what happened that night. ...
Lt. White?s mission was finished and he was on the way home when a Patriot system, on the ground below, identified his plane as an enemy missile and fired two missiles. ?He radioed the lead that he saw them. And as he turned he said they're tracking,? recalls White. ?He turned. They turned. They followed him ? They told me it was probably within four seconds when it was all over with.?
?A lot of money started flowing into the Patriot right after the Gulf War, because everybody thought it was a success,? says Cirincione.
But it turns out, that wasn?t true. Almost none of the Patriots had worked. Some of them had failed to hit the incoming Scuds. Some had shot at missiles that didn't even exist. But most of them still exploded in the sky, leading everyone to believe they'd scored a kill, when in fact they hadn?t.
?The best evidence that we found supports between two and four intercepts out of 44,? says Cirincione. ?About a 10 percent success rate.?
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Too bad the Patriot is killing our allied pilots in Gulf War II:
CBS - 60 Minutes
On March 23, a British Tornado fighter jet with two men aboard took off from Kuwait. It was the third day of the war, and there was no Iraqi opposition flying.
Their flight should have gone off without a hitch, according to retired Air Vice Marshall Tony Mason, who is advising a British Parliamentary inquiry into what happened next: ?They had fulfilled their mission and they were returning without weapons back to base.?
Mason says the aircraft was in friendly airspace when it was destroyed by a Patriot missile.
. . .
On March 25, a U.S. Air Force pilot flying an F-16 fighter jet got a signal that he was being targeted by radar he believed was coming from an enemy missile system. He fired one of his own missiles in self-defense and hit the system that was tracking him -- not an enemy, but the Patriot battery where Riggs was reporting.
. . .
On April 2, U.S. Navy Pilot Lt. Nathan White took on his 14th mission of the war. It had been 11 days since the Patriot had shot down a British Tornado fighter jet, and nine days since it had threatened an F-16.
Lt. White took off from the deck of the U.S.S. Kitty Hawk into skies being scanned by Patriots. Navy officials told his father, Dennis White, what happened that night. ...
Lt. White?s mission was finished and he was on the way home when a Patriot system, on the ground below, identified his plane as an enemy missile and fired two missiles. ?He radioed the lead that he saw them. And as he turned he said they're tracking,? recalls White. ?He turned. They turned. They followed him ? They told me it was probably within four seconds when it was all over with.?
And when it isn't busy killing our pilots, it's failing to actually stop incoming missiles 90 - 95% of the time:
?A lot of money started flowing into the Patriot right after the Gulf War, because everybody thought it was a success,? says Cirincione.
But it turns out, that wasn?t true. Almost none of the Patriots had worked. Some of them had failed to hit the incoming Scuds. Some had shot at missiles that didn't even exist. But most of them still exploded in the sky, leading everyone to believe they'd scored a kill, when in fact they hadn?t.
?The best evidence that we found supports between two and four intercepts out of 44,? says Cirincione. ?About a 10 percent success rate.?
Originally posted by: Yossarian
I don't think it's appropriate that they had them in the first place.
Originally posted by: SETiCruncherXy
"I need to have them back in the troops' hands within 60 to 90 days," said Don Bowen, the Army command's team leader in charge of the howitzers.
funny... they didnt need them today to bomb Fallujah... whats 90 days difference going to make?
If you read the 60 Minutes story, the friendly fire problem / IFF failure seems prevasive, in tests as recent as 2002, as well as in the field.Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Too bad the Patriot is killing our allied pilots in Gulf War II:
CBS - 60 Minutes
The first section you're posting has to do with IFF, or Identification Friend or Foe, problems. Possibly human error, possibly not, but not necessarily a fault of the missile system itself. Based on the information you have provided, it's not possible to accurately make that judgement.
The second point you post on is with regard to the Patriot missiles used in the FIRST gulf war, which indeed had issues with accuracy and performance. The missiles in the SECOND gulf war appear to have worked much better, with the exceptions listed above.
Rebuttal?