I think the Steyr AUG looks very fancy to me, and wasn't it developed ten years ago? (read that from my very reputable Rainbow 6: Black Thorn's weapon commentary. )
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
I think I still have the article around somewhere, I seem to recall clipping it out of the paper. They were funky looking weapons, not something you would expect from the likes of H&K or Steyr.
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
They were test-firing some ACRs up here at the local army post about fifteen years ago, to see how well they worked in artic conditions. The weapons were pretty interested, but nothing like the current batch. I'm not even sure which company made them, the main thing I remember was transparent magazines so you could see how much ammunition you had left, the fact that the ammunition was caseless, and the "bullets" were basically fin-stabilized nails.
Styer and HK were the main contenders, IIRC
HK's system evolved into the HK G11, which I really like.
I think I still have the article around somewhere, I seem to recall clipping it out of the paper. They were funky looking weapons, not something you would expect from the likes of H&K or Steyr.
The Styer.
The HK G11.
Either of those look familiar?
Originally posted by: Shockwave
My .02 cents..
No Picatanny rails. Well, so much for the Aimpoints, EOtechs and other sites. SO much for pistol grips on the front end. That alone will take ALOT of new cash to re-equip everything with new sights and add ons.
No M16 magazine's. As I recall, the XM8 doesnt accept M16 mags. Well, more cash for new mags.
Dual training. Have to train the armorers for both the outgoing M16 AND the incoming XM8.
Same old 5.56. Thats the low down. All it is is a hopped up G36. Why not USE the G36?! This is just another combat rifle on the 5.56 platform. We dont need ANOTHER 5.56 chambered rifle, we need a NEW rifle with a NEW caliber and a NEW design that gets the job DONE!
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
They were test-firing some ACRs up here at the local army post about fifteen years ago, to see how well they worked in artic conditions. The weapons were pretty interested, but nothing like the current batch. I'm not even sure which company made them, the main thing I remember was transparent magazines so you could see how much ammunition you had left, the fact that the ammunition was caseless, and the "bullets" were basically fin-stabilized nails.
Styer and HK were the main contenders, IIRC
HK's system evolved into the HK G11, which I really like.
I think I still have the article around somewhere, I seem to recall clipping it out of the paper. They were funky looking weapons, not something you would expect from the likes of H&K or Steyr.
The Styer.
The HK G11.
Either of those look familiar?
Originally posted by: Kenazo
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
They were test-firing some ACRs up here at the local army post about fifteen years ago, to see how well they worked in artic conditions. The weapons were pretty interested, but nothing like the current batch. I'm not even sure which company made them, the main thing I remember was transparent magazines so you could see how much ammunition you had left, the fact that the ammunition was caseless, and the "bullets" were basically fin-stabilized nails.
Styer and HK were the main contenders, IIRC
HK's system evolved into the HK G11, which I really like.
I think I still have the article around somewhere, I seem to recall clipping it out of the paper. They were funky looking weapons, not something you would expect from the likes of H&K or Steyr.
The Styer.
The HK G11.
Either of those look familiar?
How the heck does the caseless ammunition as found in teh HK G11 work?
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Kenazo
How the heck does the caseless ammunition as found in teh HK G11 work?
The bullet is imbedded in a solid block of propellant that burns away completely when fired, thus there is no case to eject.
HK hads some problems with rounds cooking off after the rifle had been fired for a certain amount of time due to heat in the chamber. Supposedly, this has been resolved by modifying the propellant.
Originally posted by: chocobaR
What's up with the color?
Originally posted by: Kenazo
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Kenazo
How the heck does the caseless ammunition as found in teh HK G11 work?
The bullet is imbedded in a solid block of propellant that burns away completely when fired, thus there is no case to eject.
HK hads some problems with rounds cooking off after the rifle had been fired for a certain amount of time due to heat in the chamber. Supposedly, this has been resolved by modifying the propellant.
That's what i'd be worried about. These things aren't going to just fire off if you drop them? Though, I guess it would be safer if such a round blew up outside the gun than a cased round. the case round acts a little like a mini-gun. This should just make a loud bang.
Originally posted by: Shockwave
My .02 cents..
No Picatanny rails. Well, so much for the Aimpoints, EOtechs and other sites. SO much for pistol grips on the front end. That alone will take ALOT of new cash to re-equip everything with new sights and add ons.
No M16 magazine's. As I recall, the XM8 doesnt accept M16 mags. Well, more cash for new mags.
Dual training. Have to train the armorers for both the outgoing M16 AND the incoming XM8.
Same old 5.56. Thats the low down. All it is is a hopped up G36. Why not USE the G36?! This is just another combat rifle on the 5.56 platform. We dont need ANOTHER 5.56 chambered rifle, we need a NEW rifle with a NEW caliber and a NEW design that gets the job DONE!
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Kenazo
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Kenazo
How the heck does the caseless ammunition as found in teh HK G11 work?
The bullet is imbedded in a solid block of propellant that burns away completely when fired, thus there is no case to eject.
HK hads some problems with rounds cooking off after the rifle had been fired for a certain amount of time due to heat in the chamber. Supposedly, this has been resolved by modifying the propellant.
That's what i'd be worried about. These things aren't going to just fire off if you drop them? Though, I guess it would be safer if such a round blew up outside the gun than a cased round. the case round acts a little like a mini-gun. This should just make a loud bang.
The rounds are supposed to be very safe to handle.
From what I hear even standard ammo is not all that dangerous in a fire. Without a chamber and barrel to contain the pressure, the bullets travel with very little force. The caseless rounds would just make a hell of a fire.
Originally posted by: MacBaine
Originally posted by: cablegod
They've been thinking about ditching the 5.56mm (.223 Rem) for a while, and it's about time. I wish they'd go with something on par with a .260 Rem or go back to the trusty 7.62NATO.
That would require a hell of a lot more money... 5.56 is pretty universal, and widely available. If they switched to something else, it'd only make sense that they'd have to rechamber the M249, along with other weapons that use 5.56... interchangability of ammo is a big plus.
However, I remember hearing somewhere that the XM8 has interchangeable barrels/receivers which allows rechambering pretty easily. I might be mistaken though.
Originally posted by: Munchies
Originally posted by: MacBaine
Originally posted by: cablegod
They've been thinking about ditching the 5.56mm (.223 Rem) for a while, and it's about time. I wish they'd go with something on par with a .260 Rem or go back to the trusty 7.62NATO.
That would require a hell of a lot more money... 5.56 is pretty universal, and widely available. If they switched to something else, it'd only make sense that they'd have to rechamber the M249, along with other weapons that use 5.56... interchangability of ammo is a big plus.
However, I remember hearing somewhere that the XM8 has interchangeable barrels/receivers which allows rechambering pretty easily. I might be mistaken though.
Go back to .30 AP ball if you ask me. (.30-06 Armor Piercing Ball)
Originally posted by: chocobaR
What's up with the color?
Originally posted by: Kilgor
The Army should switch to the 6.8 Remington or back to the .308 the 5.56 as a Military cartridge sucks it's not a man stopper. Why the Army chose a Varmint cartridge is beyond me, it would be different if you had time to take head shots at a hundred yards every time you encountered the enemy or used a hollow point bullets.
Originally posted by: Kilgor
The Army should switch to the 6.8 Remington or back to the .308 the 5.56 as a Military cartridge sucks it's not a man stopper. Why the Army chose a Varmint cartridge is beyond me, it would be different if you had time to take head shots at a hundred yards every time you encountered the enemy or used a hollow point bullets.
Originally posted by: Horus
Oh, and 5.56NATO is more used than 7.62NATO because it's lighter, it has more hitting power, cheaper, and doesn't leave such big holes in the enemy. 7.62NATO will blow a rather large hole in Ivan Ivanovitch, Ahab the camel-jockey...whoever you wanna kill.
Originally posted by: Mookow
Originally posted by: Horus
Oh, and 5.56NATO is more used than 7.62NATO because it's lighter, it has more hitting power, cheaper, and doesn't leave such big holes in the enemy. 7.62NATO will blow a rather large hole in Ivan Ivanovitch, Ahab the camel-jockey...whoever you wanna kill.
The 5.56 has more hitting power than the 7.62? Pass me some of whatever you are smoking.
Oh, and it might just be me, but if you are shooting someone, putting a bigger hole in them is almost always a good thing.
Originally posted by: Mookow
Originally posted by: Horus
Oh, and 5.56NATO is more used than 7.62NATO because it's lighter, it has more hitting power, cheaper, and doesn't leave such big holes in the enemy. 7.62NATO will blow a rather large hole in Ivan Ivanovitch, Ahab the camel-jockey...whoever you wanna kill.
The 5.56 has more hitting power than the 7.62? Pass me some of whatever you are smoking.
Oh, and it might just be me, but if you are shooting someone, putting a bigger hole in them is almost always a good thing.
Originally posted by: Shockwave
Originally posted by: Mookow
Originally posted by: Horus
Oh, and 5.56NATO is more used than 7.62NATO because it's lighter, it has more hitting power, cheaper, and doesn't leave such big holes in the enemy. 7.62NATO will blow a rather large hole in Ivan Ivanovitch, Ahab the camel-jockey...whoever you wanna kill.
The 5.56 has more hitting power than the 7.62? Pass me some of whatever you are smoking.
Oh, and it might just be me, but if you are shooting someone, putting a bigger hole in them is almost always a good thing.
Well, when you look at wound channels characteristics, in an ideal situation 5.56 does perform a bit better then 7.62. But thats due to fragmentation and the 7.62 being the old ball ammo. But fragmentation isnt always assured in the 5.56, and the 7.62 carries more energy farther. I'd take 7.62 and use hollow points, which would make 5.56 look like a .22LR
Originally posted by: Munchies
Go back to .30 AP ball if you ask me. (.30-06 Armor Piercing Ball)
Originally posted by: cablegod
actual word from Ft. Benning here is a 6.5mm round. HK's new plant is being built here too and there is planned joint testing in the works from the news and from the armorer's own mouth . I don't think that's a coincidence.