Army planning on a new rifle

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Mookow

Lifer
Apr 24, 2001
10,162
0
0
Originally posted by: Shockwave
Originally posted by: Mookow
Originally posted by: Horus
Oh, and 5.56NATO is more used than 7.62NATO because it's lighter, it has more hitting power, cheaper, and doesn't leave such big holes in the enemy. 7.62NATO will blow a rather large hole in Ivan Ivanovitch, Ahab the camel-jockey...whoever you wanna kill.

The 5.56 has more hitting power than the 7.62? Pass me some of whatever you are smoking.

Oh, and it might just be me, but if you are shooting someone, putting a bigger hole in them is almost always a good thing.

Well, when you look at wound channels characteristics, in an ideal situation 5.56 does perform a bit better then 7.62. But thats due to fragmentation and the 7.62 being the old ball ammo. But fragmentation isnt always assured in the 5.56, and the 7.62 carries more energy farther. I'd take 7.62 and use hollow points, which would make 5.56 look like a .22LR

In an ideal situation, yes the fragmentation should make a larger wound channel. But that isnt what I consider "hitting power". Hitting power is knocking the target down, something that the 5.56mm has never been praised for, prairie dogs excluded. But anyway, considering that the military has been going to shorter barrel lengths (standardizing the M4 carbine) and has switched to M855, fragmentation is going to occur less. And fragmentation is all the 5.56mm has going for it. I have talked to someone recently back from Iraq, and he is highly pissed at the performance of the 5.56mm in combat. You should not have to put five (or more) rounds into the targets chest to put him down. Back when 7.62mm was the standard, if you put five rounds into a man's chest before he went down, it was quite remarkable, even if you hit him at 400+ yards. With 5.56mm it is barely worth mentioning, even if you were shooting at him from under 150 yards.

Everyone wants a reliable weapon in a war zone. Shouldnt your ammo be able to do a reliable job, too?
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
0
0
Originally posted by: Mookow
Originally posted by: Shockwave
Originally posted by: Mookow
Originally posted by: Horus
Oh, and 5.56NATO is more used than 7.62NATO because it's lighter, it has more hitting power, cheaper, and doesn't leave such big holes in the enemy. 7.62NATO will blow a rather large hole in Ivan Ivanovitch, Ahab the camel-jockey...whoever you wanna kill.

The 5.56 has more hitting power than the 7.62? Pass me some of whatever you are smoking.

Oh, and it might just be me, but if you are shooting someone, putting a bigger hole in them is almost always a good thing.

Well, when you look at wound channels characteristics, in an ideal situation 5.56 does perform a bit better then 7.62. But thats due to fragmentation and the 7.62 being the old ball ammo. But fragmentation isnt always assured in the 5.56, and the 7.62 carries more energy farther. I'd take 7.62 and use hollow points, which would make 5.56 look like a .22LR

In an ideal situation, yes the fragmentation should make a larger wound channel. But that isnt what I consider "hitting power". Hitting power is knocking the target down, something that the 5.56mm has never been praised for, prairie dogs excluded. But anyway, considering that the military has been going to shorter barrel lengths (standardizing the M4 carbine) and has switched to M855, fragmentation is going to occur less. And fragmentation is all the 5.56mm has going for it. I have talked to someone recently back from Iraq, and he is highly pissed at the performance of the 5.56mm in combat. You should not have to put five (or more) rounds into the targets chest to put him down. Back when 7.62mm was the standard, if you put five rounds into a man's chest before he went down, it was quite remarkable, even if you hit him at 400+ yards. With 5.56mm it is barely worth mentioning, even if you were shooting at him from under 150 yards.

Everyone wants a reliable weapon in a war zone. Shouldnt your ammo be able to do a reliable job, too?

Come on Mookaw, you know you dont need to tell me that

I think a 6-7mm rifle is perfect for battlefield conditions. Excellent ballistics, very good knockdown power and not as heavy and bulky as full on .30 caliber rounds. And a hell of a step up from that peashooter 5.56
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: Mookow
Originally posted by: Horus
Oh, and 5.56NATO is more used than 7.62NATO because it's lighter, it has more hitting power, cheaper, and doesn't leave such big holes in the enemy. 7.62NATO will blow a rather large hole in Ivan Ivanovitch, Ahab the camel-jockey...whoever you wanna kill.

The 5.56 has more hitting power than the 7.62? Pass me some of whatever you are smoking.

Oh, and it might just be me, but if you are shooting someone, putting a bigger hole in them is almost always a good thing.

its called kenetic energy. the army went with the 5.56 because it is smaller and traveled a hell of a lot faster than the 7.62. It causes more damage.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,835
36,745
136
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Mookow
Originally posted by: Horus
Oh, and 5.56NATO is more used than 7.62NATO because it's lighter, it has more hitting power, cheaper, and doesn't leave such big holes in the enemy. 7.62NATO will blow a rather large hole in Ivan Ivanovitch, Ahab the camel-jockey...whoever you wanna kill.

The 5.56 has more hitting power than the 7.62? Pass me some of whatever you are smoking.

Oh, and it might just be me, but if you are shooting someone, putting a bigger hole in them is almost always a good thing.

its called kenetic energy. the army went with the 5.56 because it is smaller and traveled a hell of a lot faster than the 7.62. It causes more damage.

How a bullet acts when it hits a person is just as important, if not moreso, as how much energy it has.
 

Mookow

Lifer
Apr 24, 2001
10,162
0
0
Originally posted by: Citrix
its called kenetic energy. the army went with the 5.56 because it is smaller and traveled a hell of a lot faster than the 7.62. It causes more damage.

So you mean to tell me that a 62 grain bullet moving at 3250 feet per second has more KE than a 150 grain bullet moving at 2800 feet per second? You may wish to order "Hooked on Physics".
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
Anyone remember the war story of the marine who charged the 50cal machine gun in an unarmored humvee and then proceeded to take out 500m of an iraqi trench with his M9 and then finished the job with an AK-47, then picked up an RPG and blasted some more iraqies.

Yup anyway he should be the one testing the new weapons
 

gigapet

Lifer
Aug 9, 2001
10,005
0
76
Originally posted by: OverVolt
Anyone remember the war story of the marine who charged the 50cal machine gun in an unarmored humvee and then proceeded to take out 500m of an iraqi trench with his M9 and then finished the job with an AK-47, then picked up an RPG and blasted some more iraqies.

Yup anyway he should be the one testing the new weapons

no link me. i mean now!
 

sygyzy

Lifer
Oct 21, 2000
14,001
4
76
Originally posted by: rudder
Maybe the next generation will look like the ones used in the movie Aliens. Check out the pick toward the bottom of the article.

Text


The rifle.

In other breaking news, universities and the government have created a world wide web network that allows people to communicate and share information across the world.
 

Mookow

Lifer
Apr 24, 2001
10,162
0
0
Originally posted by: sygyzy
Originally posted by: rudder
Maybe the next generation will look like the ones used in the movie Aliens. Check out the pick toward the bottom of the article.

Text


The rifle.

In other breaking news, universities and the government have created a world wide web network that allows people to communicate and share information across the world.

LOL.
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
0
0
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Mookow
Originally posted by: Horus
Oh, and 5.56NATO is more used than 7.62NATO because it's lighter, it has more hitting power, cheaper, and doesn't leave such big holes in the enemy. 7.62NATO will blow a rather large hole in Ivan Ivanovitch, Ahab the camel-jockey...whoever you wanna kill.

The 5.56 has more hitting power than the 7.62? Pass me some of whatever you are smoking.

Oh, and it might just be me, but if you are shooting someone, putting a bigger hole in them is almost always a good thing.

its called kenetic energy. the army went with the 5.56 because it is smaller and traveled a hell of a lot faster than the 7.62. It causes more damage.

The damage caused is in no way due to the small bullet OR high speed. In fact, without its fragging abilities the 5.56 is a very poor performing round. Thats why the 5.56 can step up and hang with the bigger calibers, its ability to fragment upon impact. Which only happens when you have a good head of steam on it, which it doesnt at long range or out of a short barrel.
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
0
0
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Mookow
Originally posted by: Horus
Oh, and 5.56NATO is more used than 7.62NATO because it's lighter, it has more hitting power, cheaper, and doesn't leave such big holes in the enemy. 7.62NATO will blow a rather large hole in Ivan Ivanovitch, Ahab the camel-jockey...whoever you wanna kill.

The 5.56 has more hitting power than the 7.62? Pass me some of whatever you are smoking.

Oh, and it might just be me, but if you are shooting someone, putting a bigger hole in them is almost always a good thing.

its called kenetic energy. the army went with the 5.56 because it is smaller and traveled a hell of a lot faster than the 7.62. It causes more damage.

With all due respect... Check your facts before posting. A 147 grain 7.62x51 round has approx TWICE the energy of a 55 grain 5.56 round.
 

Mookow

Lifer
Apr 24, 2001
10,162
0
0
Originally posted by: Shockwave
With all due respect... Check your facts before posting. A 147 grain 7.62x51 round has approx TWICE the energy of a 55 grain 5.56 round.

I vote we all chip in to buy him a copy of "hooked on physics".
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
0
0
Originally posted by: Mookow
Originally posted by: Shockwave
With all due respect... Check your facts before posting. A 147 grain 7.62x51 round has approx TWICE the energy of a 55 grain 5.56 round.

I vote we all chip in to buy him a copy of "hooked on physics".

Or give him a link to http://www.winchester.com which gives you ballistics for every round they make, including military rounds.
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
0
0
After seeing the video I like it not very much I'd say. Looks like it has a mile worth of trigger pull, the lighter weight makes for more recoil and thus slower follow up shots, I dont like the position of the mag release either. I never liked the near trigger mag releases lest you accidentally trigger it in a combat situation. Lastly, the barrel is too damned short.
 

Cable God

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2000
3,251
0
71
Originally posted by: Shockwave
After seeing the video I like it not very much I'd say. Looks like it has a mile worth of trigger pull, the lighter weight makes for more recoil and thus slower follow up shots, I dont like the position of the mag release either. I never liked the near trigger mag releases lest you accidentally trigger it in a combat situation. Lastly, the barrel is too damned short.

Maybe you're just damned old school like me too Give me an '03 Springfield my way or an M1A my way, and they can KEEP their plastic poppers anyday
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
10
81
Originally posted by: amdfanboy
Why does averything the millitary make now look like a toy?
I don't think that will be the final color... the olive-colored one (in one of the links) didn't look too bad.
 
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