Army surpasses July recruiting goal...

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Too bad the dumb asses who will sign up for that will blow it on junk like stereo upgrades and that mustang they always wanted and then look at pictures of it while getting mortared 500 miles from anywhere that they'd even think about wanting to be.

Very true. What is $20k anyway? With a decent job you can make it in 3-4 months without having to be tossed in some hell hole in order for defense contractors to make out like bandits.

 

[keird]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Oh I'm sure military people can get defensive... we're a proud bunch. We believe what we do is very important and can get irritated by those seen as less than supportive. But in the same sense of being proud, we don't always need pats on the head to validate what we do. I have gone back to teaching, 4 weeks now, and I don't think one person at the school -besides the principal- knows I'm military. I'd just assume keep it that way.

I knew someone like that. He's a quiet professional.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer
You also made the mistake of assuming that I'm uninitiated.

Have you served in the military? If so, when, where, and with whom did you serve? Just curious...

There's more than one way to be initiated.

ok then, quit playing games. do tell us how exactly you were "initiated."

No.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: mc00
""You can troll on because you sir, are protected by the likes of us. We give our lives for your ability to rant about something that you're not able to comprehend. You can't face your inner fears, so you attack those strong enough to stare in the face of their own demons and stand for something."

This one really got under my skin... So I'm worthless because I didn't join military and picked up a gun, so I'm not worthy to speak out and voice out my opinion against anything I see is bull, like this "War On Terror" you know what, I couldn't give flying fck what you military/war lovers thinks of a average Joe.. I pay my fee for my freedom, and that fee is those damn taxes and obeying the laws. It?s my duty as citizen of United State to protect my civil libraries from any corrupt government or outsider. The Terrorist, what people so afraid of is going to bring down empire as United State, yeah right. People stupidity and fear and putting to much trust into our government/politician is the one going to bring down this country not the terrorist. I have 3 friend join military I have respect for having balls to join but I don?t owe them jack sh!t. If I want to protect my own freedom I'll pick up a gun and protect my own a$$, and if a BIG if there were to be true danger to our nation than I will fight..

Spoken like a real man and true patriot:thumbsup:.

Damn mc00, you can rest easy tonight knowing the almighty narmer gave you his prestigeous seal of approval on your man card. Grats bro

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: shortylickens
You would sound much more intelligent if you didnt make up words, especially "ireregardless"

And you dont get brought up under "indoctrinations" either.

Not sure about "grandizing", will have to check on that.

Fair enough. I realized those mistakes but I'm working with one arm here so I'd ask for your forgiveness. The cast for the other arm should be off in no time.

Its cool.
But its a point that needs to be repeated every once in a while at P&N.
If you wanna sound like you are making a good argument, you need to:

1. Refrain from profanity and personal insults (especially insults to a persons mental or emotional health).
2. Avoid generalizations.
3. Support arguments with data (a big plus) or at least use solid logic.
4. Write thoroughly yet clearly. Use just enough words to make your point and leave it at that. Dont use lots of big words. Too many words or reduntant phrases (e.g. "emergency situation") seems like you're trying to impress people.

If you remember these things while writing people will want to listen to you, or at least find it more difficult to write you off as a Troll.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Do they still pay bonuses half up front and the rest monthly over the length of the contract?

Depending on the branch and MOS, the bonuses can be paid out several ways. Some, if they're lucky, get a lump-sum payment. Others receive half up front and another 25% after X number of years, and another 25% later, etc.

It all depends on the MOS, the specific slot you go for, and what deals you work out with your recruiter.Many times you can ask for Airborne, Ranger, DLI, and other schools in your contract. They even allow you to elect Special Forces on your contract (which, IMO, is a huge mistake.. but hey, that's another story altogether).

Enlistment and re-enlistment bonuses are a great incentive, but if you ask me, they really don't amount to much in the long run.

I, for one, hope they keep raising the bonuses... I'm due to re-up soon!

You mean visiting exotic locations, meeting strange people and then killing them isn't incentive enough?

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: mc00
""You can troll on because you sir, are protected by the likes of us. We give our lives for your ability to rant about something that you're not able to comprehend. You can't face your inner fears, so you attack those strong enough to stare in the face of their own demons and stand for something."

This one really got under my skin... So I'm worthless because I didn't join military and picked up a gun, so I'm not worthy to speak out and voice out my opinion against anything I see is bull, like this "War On Terror" you know what, I couldn't give flying fck what you military/war lovers thinks of a average Joe.. I pay my fee for my freedom, and that fee is those damn taxes and obeying the laws. It?s my duty as citizen of United State to protect my civil libraries from any corrupt government or outsider. The Terrorist, what people so afraid of is going to bring down empire as United State, yeah right. People stupidity and fear and putting to much trust into our government/politician is the one going to bring down this country not the terrorist. I have 3 friend join military I have respect for having balls to join but I don?t owe them jack sh!t. If I want to protect my own freedom I'll pick up a gun and protect my own a$$, and if a BIG if there were to be true danger to our nation than I will fight..

Spoken like a real man and true patriot:thumbsup:.

Damn mc00, you can rest easy tonight knowing the almighty narmer gave you his prestigeous seal of approval on your man card. Grats bro

:laugh:. Well, strong opinions tend to get strong reactions. I'm sure there are many like him who feel the same way. Just because a man's career path doesn't crosses with the military doesn't make him any less than those who do, and it certainly doesn't make the latter a demigod to be praised. With that said, I respect men that join the services for the reasons I stated earlier. People that do it for money and/or expect to be worshipped are full of shit IMHO.

 

[fskimospy]

Being in the military is not a big deal. It's not special... and pretty much anyone can do it. They take just about anyone these days anyway. Not only can you be a prior felon, but I knew several people on my ship who were given the option by a judge to go to jail, or to go to the military. Any job that you can get by court order isn't exactly highly selective.

From my experience the military is split up into 3 groups. The people who genuinely dig the military lifestyle, the people in it for the money, and the retards who couldn't make it anywhere else. They're about evenly split with 1/3 each. The fact that there is about a 40-50% attrition rate at the first point people can get out of the military (first term reenlistment rates) that correlates very well with outside job opportunities and signing bonuses to stay tends to point to the idea that people aren't joining the military just to serve one's countrymen and the Noble Ideal.

There's nothing wrong with that, it's a purely rational decision, and its one I respect. I just think we should view the military with open eyes. It's a hard, dangerous job, and that's something to appreciate. However, it's also a job that's very easy to get, and one that pays astoundingly well for the education and qualification level that it requires. After only a few years in someone with a GED can be making 50k+ (when compared to an outside job due to lots of military pay being untaxed) with full health benefits.

So yeah... other countries don't deify their militaries, so I don't see why we have to either. Respect the people doing a job you don't want to do, but be realistic.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Being in the military is not a big deal. It's not special... and pretty much anyone can do it. They take just about anyone these days anyway. Not only can you be a prior felon, but I knew several people on my ship who were given the option by a judge to go to jail, or to go to the military. Any job that you can get by court order isn't exactly highly selective.

From my experience the military is split up into 3 groups. The people who genuinely dig the military lifestyle, the people in it for the money, and the retards who couldn't make it anywhere else. They're about evenly split with 1/3 each. The fact that there is about a 40-50% attrition rate at the first point people can get out of the military (first term reenlistment rates) that correlates very well with outside job opportunities and signing bonuses to stay tends to point to the idea that people aren't joining the military just to serve one's countrymen and the Noble Ideal.

There's nothing wrong with that, it's a purely rational decision, and its one I respect. I just think we should view the military with open eyes. It's a hard, dangerous job, and that's something to appreciate. However, it's also a job that's very easy to get, and one that pays astoundingly well for the education and qualification level that it requires. After only a few years in someone with a GED can be making 50k+ (when compared to an outside job due to lots of military pay being untaxed) with full health benefits.

So yeah... other countries don't deify their militaries, so I don't see why we have to either. Respect the people doing a job you don't want to do, but be realistic.

Well, Im not so sure "everyone" can do it. And that really depends on the branch too, they vary widely. If you think "pretty much everyone" can hack Paris Island USMC training, then you should rethink that statement.

Also, you are full of pooh when you say anyone with a GED can get 50k+ a year in the military. There is NO WAY that is possible, in fact soldiers would be lucky to get half that. If I make it through USMC OCS (need a 4 year degree to even apply), a 2nd lieutenants pay is 43k a year starting so there is no way in hell someone who enlists will make close to what an officer gets.

And that brings me to my last point, not just anyone can become an officer in the military (you nicely generalized the whole military). Look up Marine OCS and see the graduation rates, then tell me anyone can hack it.

 

[Gaard]

I don't see any contradictions in what Nick says and what Eskimospy says. Nick simply pointed out exceptions. So do you guys agree with one another?

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Gaard
I don't see any contradictions in what Nick says and what Eskimospy says. Nick simply pointed out exceptions. So do you guys agree with one another?

You didnt read carefully.


He states "After only a few years in someone with a GED can be making 50k+", then I stated that is 100% bullshit. I would call that a contradiction.

 

[Gaard]

Yep, you're correct. That would be a contradiction.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Gaard
I don't see any contradictions in what Nick says and what Eskimospy says. Nick simply pointed out exceptions. So do you guys agree with one another?

You didnt read carefully.


He states "After only a few years in someone with a GED can be making 50k+", then I stated that is 100% bullshit. I would call that a contradiction.

If they send you to a war zone for example, isn't your pay untaxed and increased? 50k makes about $3k a month after taxes.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: nick1985


Well, Im not so sure "everyone" can do it. And that really depends on the branch too, they vary widely. If you think "pretty much everyone" can hack Paris Island USMC training, then you should rethink that statement.

Also, you are full of pooh when you say anyone with a GED can get 50k+ a year in the military. There is NO WAY that is possible, in fact soldiers would be lucky to get half that. If I make it through USMC OCS (need a 4 year degree to even apply), a 2nd lieutenants pay is 43k a year starting so there is no way in hell someone who enlists will make close to what an officer gets.

And that brings me to my last point, not just anyone can become an officer in the military (you nicely generalized the whole military). Look up Marine OCS and see the graduation rates, then tell me anyone can hack it.

You are not correct about the pay, I know it because I made it myself. Someone in Marine OCS probably shouldn't be trying to explain the realities of the military to someone who spent the better part of a decade in it.

I've actually broken this down in previous threads, but here it goes again. Base pay for an E-5 with 2 years in (which is what I was when I made it) is very close to $2,000 a month. We'll just round things off for ease. BAH for an E-5 without dependants is $1379 per month. BAS is somewhere around $280 per month. If you're on a ship then you're getting sea pay, flight pay, hazardous duty pay, etc... but I won't include those.

Assuming the worst case scenario which should be about 30% taxes counting state and federal... and I'm being generous here as I mentioned before many military members don't pay state taxes.

Base pay: $2,000 -30% taxes = $1400
BAH: (San Diego) $1,379 -untaxed = $1379
BAS: $280 -untaxed = $280
Total per month: = $3059
Total per year: = $36,708

Now, that's take home. If you see what you would need to make in a civilian job in order to have $36,708 take home each year, I multiplied it by .30 (our 'close enough' tax rate) and came up with $47,720. That's pretty close to $50,000 a year... and thats not including ANY additional pay which a large percentage of people in the military will qualify for in some way or another. And no, you don't need anything more then a GED to make that.

You are also taking very selective areas to make exceptions to what I said. Just because everyone can't make it through Marine boot camp doesn't mean they couldn't have joined the Navy, the Chair Force, or the Army. I just said the military because I didn't want to make a super long irritating post giving caveats for every concievable situation in which a certain segment of the military is more exclusive then another. Okay? Not everyone can be a Navy SEAL either, but it doesn't change the fact that Johnny Jackass who dropped out of high school can jump his stupid ass into the navy and in 2 years be making more money then my mom was with a Masters +20 teaching kids in an inner city school.

I've put those same numbers out before. I feel like I should just save this post and copy/paste it next time someone tries to complain that the military doesn't make a lot of money.

EDIT: I forgot to mention this is what I made while I was based in San Diego. SD is more expensive for housing then most cities, but it is less expensive then some and is in fact home to some of the largest concentations of military personnel in the entire country. I feel it's a fair place to use.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer
You also made the mistake of assuming that I'm uninitiated.

Have you served in the military? If so, when, where, and with whom did you serve? Just curious...

There's more than one way to be initiated.

ok then, quit playing games. do tell us how exactly you were "initiated."

No.

in other words, you're FOS. I expected nothing less from you.

 

[shortylickens]

Normally I dont like to bring up specifics but I got out as an E-5 with 9 years of service. My BAH was certainly NOT San Diego's. They're probably the highest out of anything stateside.
No one else makes close to that.

And that "pretty close" to 50 grand a year is a joke in San Diego. For anyone thats actually been there you need to make a lot more to not be considered poor. Thats a very expensive town.

The military pays decent once you get to E-5, but most folks dont make it that far.
The standard attrition rates say most will get out at E-3 and below. Very few folks make it beyond the first term, be it 3, 4 or 5 year enlistment.

Oh, and sea pay, flight pay and all the others are a pittance for what you actually have to do to get them. And many of those arent given to E-3 and below, again, the bulk of the active duty folks are in that group.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: shortylickens
Normally I dont like to bring up specifics but I got out as an E-5 with 9 years of service. My BAH was certainly NOT San Diego's. They're probably the highest out of anything stateside.
No one else makes close to that.

And that "pretty close" to 50 grand a year is a joke in San Diego. For anyone thats actually been there you need to make a lot more to not be considered poor. Thats a very expensive town.

The military pays decent once you get to E-5, but most folks dont make it that far.
The standard attrition rates say most will get out at E-3 and below. Very few folks make it beyond the first term, be it 3, 4 or 5 year enlistment.

Oh, and sea pay, flight pay and all the others are a pittance for what you actually have to do to get them. And many of those arent given to E-3 and below, again, the bulk of the active duty folks are in that group.

If someone can't make at least E4 during their initial enlistment, I don't think the military is for them.

That said, I have to agree with your opinions in that the only time pay goes above the poverty line, for enlisted soldiers E1-E4, is when they are deployed to a tax-exempt combat zone.

Otherwise, the pay is complete sh*t - especially given the 60-80 hour work weeks (or more!).

You could probably put in 60-80 hours per week at a 7-11 and make more money than an E4 on active duty...

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: shortylickens
Normally I dont like to bring up specifics but I got out as an E-5 with 9 years of service. My BAH was certainly NOT San Diego's. They're probably the highest out of anything stateside.
No one else makes close to that.

And that "pretty close" to 50 grand a year is a joke in San Diego. For anyone thats actually been there you need to make a lot more to not be considered poor. Thats a very expensive town.

The military pays decent once you get to E-5, but most folks dont make it that far.
The standard attrition rates say most will get out at E-3 and below. Very few folks make it beyond the first term, be it 3, 4 or 5 year enlistment.

Oh, and sea pay, flight pay and all the others are a pittance for what you actually have to do to get them. And many of those arent given to E-3 and below, again, the bulk of the active duty folks are in that group.

You are really wrong. Maybe you were in the military a long time ago or something.

First of all, I admitted that San Diego is higher then other places, but there are more then 100,000 active duty military personnel in this area, and if you count in sundry support you have almost 10% of the total US forces that are based in and around here. That's a very significant chunk of the armed forces, and I feel that its fair to use. It was my experience and it's hardly unique. If you look at the 2007 rates you will see a good number of areas, including several fleet concentration areas such as Hawaii and Florida that have BAH rates that are comparable or even higher then San Diego's.

Secondly I live in San Diego now, and I've been here for about 8 years. You can live here very comfortably on $50,000 here. I paid all my bills, had one roomate and had TONS of cash left over after car payments, etc. I don't make $50,000 a year now that I'm out and I still live just fine. In fact, I just checked the median income. Guess what it is? The median income for a single male (which is what I used in my example) is just shy of $37,000. That means I was making a full $10,000 per year above the median... more then 25% more then your average joe. How was I poor there again? You people should really make sure you don't try to BS about subjects that are easily verifiable.

And in a single enlistment a whole ton of people make it to E-5. Again, as I said before I made it in 2 years. It is dependant on your rating though. As for OSes when I was in at least, it was 100% advancement to E-5. All you needed to do was pass the test. That means you made E-5 in about 2 years unless you were certifiably retarded. The same was the case for IT's... literally you couldn't help but become an E-5 in your first term. Some other ratings like FC were harder, being at only 30% advancement or so... so you might take 3 years to make E-5. It's a very easily attainable rank by nearly all ratings in their first enlistment. (and to be fair, originally I said a "few" years, which I guess would be 3. Jeez, what a shock)

There is almost no rating in the Navy where advancement is less then 80% to E-4. Advancement is automatic up through E-3, literally requiring no action whatsoever on the member's part. Attrition rates after the first term are approximately 50%. To say that the majority of military members are E-3 and below means that you believe that the majority of members in the navy have been there for less then a year and a half, not counting any accelerated advancement. That's simply false.

Anyways, long story short... lots of people make it to E-5 in a single enlistment, and the pay is extemely good considering you need zero education to get the job.

 

[rpanic]

I know this will be a dumb question, but don?t you also get a free place to live if you live on the base? Seems like there would be a lot of perks especially if you were a single guy.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer
What's the bonus when they come back in a bodybag or with limbs missing?

It's a sad price that each of us who serves knows we might have to pay. Whenever you reduce it to a political talking point, you effectively cheapen the sacrifices we make.

But what completely cheapens the sacrifice to the point of worthlessness is the fact that it's a all for nothing. The invasion was for nothing, the continuation of the war is for nothing, and all the dead and wounded American soldiers are for nothing, other than for George to save face.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: rpanic
I know this will be a dumb question, but don?t you also get a free place to live if you live on the base? Seems like there would be a lot of perks especially if you were a single guy.

You get either a free place to stay on the base, or BAH. So in effect yes room and board is factored into your salary if you are below E-5 without any dependants. The thing about that though, is that if you are stationed on a ship... that means you live on the ship all the time. This is technically a place to stay, but it really blows pretty bad.

If you are on a shore station (or not in the navy) then you tend to get a room that you share with one other person as I understand it. Not great, but certainly better then the ship.

As mentioned previously though, the biggest perk... especially nowadays is 100% free medical care. 100% free. No copays ever, nada. If I'm not mistaken the military is now even taking care of things like LASIK and stuff like that all free. Free gym access, free movie theaters, discounts on tickets to concerts/amusement parks/etc. There are a pretty good amount of perks available.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer
What's the bonus when they come back in a bodybag or with limbs missing?

It's a sad price that each of us who serves knows we might have to pay. Whenever you reduce it to a political talking point, you effectively cheapen the sacrifices we make.

But what completely cheapens the sacrifice to the point of worthlessness is the fact that it's a all for nothing. The invasion was for nothing, the continuation of the war is for nothing, and all the dead and wounded American soldiers are for nothing, other than for George to save face.

I do not see it that way. Some of us would like to clean up the mess our government created, and we're doing pretty well in that regard in both Iraq and Afghanistan... at least for the moment. And any sacrifices we might make are either for the Iraqi's or the guy next to us - for the most part, we've tuned out the rest of the American people, and we know that we're not there to fight for them. That doesn't mean that we have no more reason to fight... rather, our priorities and purpose have shifted and adapted to the current mission.

You probably wouldn't understand, because CNN wont show you any of the good things we're doing, but we're making positive changes every day... we really are.

 

[rpanic]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: rpanic
I know this will be a dumb question, but don?t you also get a free place to live if you live on the base? Seems like there would be a lot of perks especially if you were a single guy.

You get either a free place to stay on the base, or BAH. So in effect yes room and board is factored into your salary if you are below E-5 without any dependants. The thing about that though, is that if you are stationed on a ship... that means you live on the ship all the time. This is technically a place to stay, but it really blows pretty bad.

If you are on a shore station (or not in the navy) then you tend to get a room that you share with one other person as I understand it. Not great, but certainly better then the ship.

As mentioned previously though, the biggest perk... especially nowadays is 100% free medical care. 100% free. No copays ever, nada. If I'm not mistaken the military is now even taking care of things like LASIK and stuff like that all free. Free gym access, free movie theaters, discounts on tickets to concerts/amusement parks/etc. There are a pretty good amount of perks available.

They have taken pretty good care of my dad much better than when he had Kaiser , and he gets some money for being disabled on top of his retirement. I think he said he like 70% disabled and I think they are going to make him a 100% soon. It really helps him get by.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
...and we know that we're not there to fight for them.

An oft exchange on P&N is...
Military Guy - "We're fighting for you!"
Nonmilitary Guy - "Bullshit"
Have you not seen these exchanges, pale?

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer
You also made the mistake of assuming that I'm uninitiated.

Have you served in the military? If so, when, where, and with whom did you serve? Just curious...

There's more than one way to be initiated.

ok then, quit playing games. do tell us how exactly you were "initiated."

No.

in other words, you're FOS. I expected nothing less from you.

That's your opinion. I've alluded to my organization before and will not do so again.