Ars: AMD may be irrelevant

[grimpr]

IGPs have certainly come a long way in the past few years. Weak as they are, they CAN play modern games and I think putting a GPU in every PC capable of DX11 effects can be nothing but good for the PC gaming industry. I wonder how long it would've taken Intel to move this way if not for AMD's competition in that area?

This is something pretty simple that some on these forums cant comprehend.

 

[Dark Shroud]

Add into that crossfire capabilities and what people are starting to do with Thunderbolt.

Too many people seem hell bent on down playing the positives of Trinity.

The Jumps Intel has made the last few years with just the performance of HD 3000 and now HD 4000 would never have happened if AMD wasn't pushing them.

Trinity has DX11 now and I welcome Intel Haswell because by then AMD will have something even better.

AMD's video cards have good memory controllers on them. If AMD embraces DDR4 and makes new controllers for their video cards & CPUs/APUs we could see some interesting to amazing things happen.

 

[Yuriman]

I'm not so certain Intel won't win next round tbh, they're making great strides in the GPU world. Regardless of who wins though, the customer wins due to competition. Competition where it's most important at that.

 

[Dark Shroud]

I don't think Intel is going to catch up on IGPs next round. They're still working on DX11 and baked OpenCL into the CPU side because their IGPs couldn't run it like AMD or Nvidia.

 

[Centauri]

People have been saying Intel is a generation away from having market-leading IGP performance since the GMA900 rolled out...

 

[Keysplayr]

I will just leave this here, its what the future brings

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/amd-trinity-graphics_10.html#sect0

And I'll just leave this here for you.
"AMD attempts to shape review content with staged release of info"
http://techreport.com/blog/23638/amd-attempts-to-shape-review-content-with-staged-release-of-info

 

[CHADBOGA]

People have been saying Intel is a generation away from having market-leading IGP performance since the GMA900 rolled out...

No they haven't.

Haswell's GPU is the first one that will likely take the lead in the IGP race.

 

[SPBHM]

People have been saying Intel is a generation away from having market-leading IGP performance since the GMA900 rolled out...

really? I can't remember that... I only started seeing some real progress and hope after Lynnfield,

even though, it's funny but one of my first "3d capable" graphics was from Intel, the 810, it could play quake 3 (a new and popular game back in 99/2000) OK.

 

[NTMBK]

And I'll just leave this here for you.
"AMD attempts to shape review content with staged release of info"
http://techreport.com/blog/23638/amd-attempts-to-shape-review-content-with-staged-release-of-info

Oh yay, TR threw a hissy fit.

 

[Mallibu]

Oh yay, TR threw a hissy fit.

Manipulating public opinion by trying to hide the weaknesses and allowing to talk only for the positives is pretty pathetic and TR did the right thing by calling them out. Don't let your "passion" for a corporation that wouldn't give a penny about your existence affect your moral judgement. Same thing can be said about intel tactics or anyone trying to manipulate results.

 

[AtenRa]

Manipulating public opinion by trying to hide the weaknesses and allowing to talk only for the positives is pretty pathetic and TR did the right thing by calling them out.

Nobody trying to hide any weaknesses, those were only Previews, you will be able to read the full review in a few days.

 

[Dribble]

From what I can see of the major x86 markets there is:

A-Consumer: the way this is going is lower and lower power. This is basically been what Intel has been focusing on for the last few years. AMD has been focusing on APU's which no one really cares about.

B-Professional: Here we have servers that are getting more and more parallel with more more lightweight processors. This if anything is much better suited to APU's.

So for some reason AMD is marketing openCL to consumers who don't mostly care, then in server land not marketing APU's and openCL which might give them an edge.

Perhaps if they worked on servers with APU's they'd really have something?

Note: by APU I mean a cpu/gpu/compute combination that isn't just about taking the old motherboard embedded gpu and sticking it on the same chip as the cpu, but about enabling the interconnect, compute and everything else for a true asynchronous processor.

 

[Idontcare]

Nobody trying to hide any weaknesses, those were only Previews, you will be able to read the full review in a few days.

AMD A10-5800K & A8-5600K Review: Trinity on the Desktop, Part 1

^ Anand's article doesn't say preview. It says review.

Anyone that wants to showcase the upside of Trinity without risking exposing their target audience to the downsides can just link them to this "review" and not worry themselves with linking to "Part 2".

It is clever of AMD, gotta give them credit for marketing doing what marketing does.

 

[Mallibu]

Nobody trying to hide any weaknesses, those were only Previews, you will be able to read the full review in a few days.

"We understand why they might wish to see "experiential testing" results and IGP-focused gaming benchmarks in the initial review that grabs the headlines, while burying the CPU-focused benchmarks on a later date. By doing so, they'd be leading with the product's strengths and playing down its biggest weakness.

And it's likely to work, I can tell you from long experience, since the first article about a subject tends to capture the buzz and draw the largest audience. A second article a week later? No so much. Heck, even if we hold back and publish our full review later (which indeed is our plan), it's not likely to attract as broad a readership as it would have on day one, given the presence of extensive "previews" elsewhere."

 

[cytg111]

That's complete and I would say willful ignorance and dismissal of the benefits of the new generation over the old. CPU performance isn't everything, the major focuses with IB and Haswell both have been at integrated GPU performance and power consumption. That's because these chips are largely developed for the notebook and OEM markets where power consumption and decent integrated graphics are important, and power efficiency in general is an increasingly important theme in the development of all electronics. Gamers don't need much higher CPU performance and the high end workstation side has their SB-E hexacores.

"That's complete and I would say willful ignorance and dismissal of the benefits of the new generation over the old."

- Yess .. but will it run Crysis?

I know I'm playing the devil's advocate here, but it seems like someone has to do it (a result of the matrix equation trying to balance itself) for there mere fact that SOME presences here is much like a weather-man betting his life on a sunny friday 7 days from now and anyone who says otherwise must be complete a idiot.
Unless you show me that magic crystall ball, im calling weather-man on.. some of the guys here.

 

[KingFatty]

And I'll just leave this here for you.
"AMD attempts to shape review content with staged release of info"
http://techreport.com/blog/23638/amd-attempts-to-shape-review-content-with-staged-release-of-info

Hmm, looks like AMD is allowing media outlets to post 'limited previews' prior to the product launch date (and news embargo lift).

So AMD is lifting parts of the news embargo early, without lifting all of the parts simultaneously early.

Hmmm, sort of makes me feel like TechReport was given some lemonade, and then went through a lot of effort to extract the lemons from it and make a sour face.

 

[Dresdenboy]

Finance =/= Engineering.

I know people who worked in the field of Financial Engineering. But I agree with many here that an academic degree actually shows that one is able to apply and create knowledge rather than being programmed to a specific set of knowledge.

Who knows, who is responsible for such regular bid/ask patterns:
http://www.nanex.net/FlashCrash/CCircleDay.html

 

[podspi]

Limited previews are not a new thing. I am a bit disappointed Anand called it a review, they should have called it a preview.

No they haven't.

Haswell's GPU is the first one that will likely take the lead in the IGP race.

I don't think this is a foregone conclusion just yet, but I think Haswell is going to have a very potent graphics solution.


One thing I haven't seen much discussion about is why Intel is bothering with Crystalwell, and what AMD plans to do in response. Needing such a high level of memory bandwidth implies a certain level of throughput, unless Intel is just throwing money away.

 

[Arkaign]

I'm still kind of meh on IGP overall for a couple of reasons :

The 95% of buyers who just use their PCs for either strict business purposes, and/or FB, email, youtube, netflix, etc, don't have any trouble with even mediocre to poor IGPs long since on the market. To be honest, I've NEVER met someone who knew or cared that they had merely a basic IGP unless they were a gamer. Not saying I don't know PC gamers obviously, but I don't know any PC gamers with IGPs (that they actually use for gaming).

Now tons of PCs do sell, so even a hypothetical 5% market is a fairly decent one, which is why we have PC gaming and PC gaming hardware. The problem is that most of these people will be better served by even fairly low-end discrete solutions rather than integrated. Further exacerbating this is the fact that it's a quick moving target despite consolization slowing progress a bit. No matter how powerful an IGP might be, say right now you hypothetically put a GTX680 or HD7970 on-die with an i7-3960X or whatever (with some insane cooling solution, lol). Well then what? You're still going to have very weak memory performance compared to mid/low end discrete cards, even if you go with 1866 or faster memory. Say that DDR4-3000 comes along and moves that forward a good bit. Well probably around that same time you'll be looking at GDDR6 GPUs with 2x-4x or even greater memory performance. And that memory isn't shared with the CPU bus.

Bah.

 

[Arkaign]

Now if GPGPU software suddenly becomes super mainstream (used in MS Office, IE/FFChrome/HTML5, Games, etc), then it becomes a little more interesting, as you could use that even with a discrete GPU as well and still see benefits.

 

[NTMBK]

No they haven't.

Haswell's GPU is the first one that will likely take the lead in the IGP race.

It's going to be an interesting one. Haswell GT3 might be the chipthat beats AMD in graphics, but the number of chips which have that GPU remains to be seen. It seems like it will be a different (larger) die than the GT1 and GT2. (I'm taking this from some interesting dieshot analysis here). Between a bigger die and the on-package DRAM, I think GT3 is going to be reserved for very expensive speciality chips, in niche applications (like driving a Retina display on the next Macbook Air).

 

[Dark Shroud]

Now if GPGPU software suddenly becomes super mainstream (used in MS Office, IE/FFChrome/HTML5, Games, etc), then it becomes a little more interesting, as you could use that even with a discrete GPU as well and still see benefits.

GPGPU is already used in IE & FF, I'm not sure what Chrome does. There is also a WebGL.

As for games, there is the DirectX 11 API for games to use Direct Compute and several games coming out this year will use it.

 

[AtenRa]

AMD A10-5800K & A8-5600K Review: Trinity on the Desktop, Part 1

^ Anand's article doesn't say preview. It says review.

Anyone that wants to showcase the upside of Trinity without risking exposing their target audience to the downsides can just link them to this "review" and not worry themselves with linking to "Part 2".

It is clever of AMD, gotta give them credit for marketing doing what marketing does.

Im sorry but AMD consider this to be a Preview, how AT Christens its articles is another story.

We are allowing limited previews of the embargoed information to generate additional traffic for your site, and give you an opportunity to put additional emphasis on topics of interest to your readers. If you wish to post a preview article as a teaser for your main review, you may do so on September 27th, 2012 at 12:01AM EDT.

Most of the other sites headline of the article has the word Preview written on it, only AT has it as a Review.

AMD A10-5800K Trinity Desktop APU w/ Socket FM2 Performance Preview : by http://www.legitreviews.com/article/2043/1/

AMD A10-5800K Performance Preview: Trinity for Desktop : by http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/AMD-A10-5800K-Performance-Preview-Trinity-Desktop

Edit: Again, i dont see whats the big fuzz about it, those were Previews, main Full Reviews coming in a few days, nobody hiding anything and everybody will be allowed to quote from the main review.

 

[piesquared]

Im sorry but AMD consider this to be a Preview, how AT Christens its articles is another story.



Most of the other sites headline of the article has the word Preview written on it, only AT has it as a Review.

AMD A10-5800K Trinity Desktop APU w/ Socket FM2 Performance Preview : by http://www.legitreviews.com/article/2043/1/

AMD A10-5800K Performance Preview: Trinity for Desktop : by http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/AMD-A10-5800K-Performance-Preview-Trinity-Desktop

Edit: Again, i dont see whats the big fuzz about it, those were Previews, main Full Reviews coming in a few days, nobody hiding anything and everybody will be allowed to quote from the main review.

There is no big deal. The article is just a spomsored opinionated hit piece. This has been done for decades, and practically every GPU release has been accompanied by reviewer guides that inform which games to benchmark. The hypocricy runs deep in that article.

Has Scott not seen the dozens of 'leaks' on various products over the years? Surely he doesn't believe those aren't sanctioned leaks?

Also, maybe Scott could publish private emails from other hardware vendors so we can see their correspondence as well. People will lose a lot of respect for TR after this, its a ridiculous premise.

 

[Mallibu]

There is no big deal. The article is just a spomsored opinionated hit piece. This has been done for decades, and practically every GPU release has been accompanied by reviewer guides that inform which games to benchmark. The hypocricy runs deep in that article.

Has Scott not seen the dozens of 'leaks' on various products over the years? Surely he doesn't believe those aren't sanctioned leaks?

Also, maybe Scott could publish private emails from other hardware vendors so we can see their correspondence as well. People will lose a lot of respect for TR after this, its a ridiculous premise.

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