Ars Technica: Stopping the sale of used console games

[AstroManLuca]

Anyway, regarding used game sales... there's no way Microsoft gets away with eliminating used sales unless Sony and Nintendo do the same, and they won't. Well, Sony might, but probably not Nintendo. I wonder what would happen if GameStop threatened to pull all Xbox-related products from their stores (new OR used) - would MS back down or would GameStop just get hurt really bad before eventually conceding defeat? Such a move would definitely work if other large retailers went in on it too, but I think GameStop is the only big one that deals in used games, and I don't know if they have enough clout on their own.

 

[alent1234]

i would guess that Best Buy would be the first to threaten to pull the x-box. they probably don't make much money on the games, but that's just there to bring in customers to buy the accessories

less reason to buy games means less potential customers so no reason to devote all that floor space to products and demo units

and if MS actually does this i bet to activate the content for a used sale will be via another key you buy at a cheaper price so there will still be some sort of used market

 

[micrometers]

Anyone who buys used games from Gamestop regularly is missing out. Just buy on Amazon, not sure why that's so difficult.

This is all about greed. They want a piece of the used game market. Nowhere else in any business that I can think of does this apply, and I'm not sure why this should be any different.

If I sell a copy of a movie I don't have to pay Warner Brothers.
If I sell a book I don't have to pay a publishing company or the author.
If I sell a couch I don't have to pay Pottery Barn.
If I sell a television I don't have to pay Samsung.
If I sell my 360 I don't have to pay Microsoft.

It's just greed, and anyone who twists it into anything else is incorrect.

I wouldn't say it's greed. it's about sustaining game studios, which have to pay salaries to people. I'm very much in favor of creative people getting money in order for them to create art that the rest of us might enjoy.

 

[mcmilljb]

I could, but by the time I've driven to the store because I verified it was in stock on the website, I'm not going to leave empty handed. Ultimately it doesn't really matter much because I'm buying the game to play it, not look at the case, so as long as the disc works it's meeting my needs. But it's still an annoyance.

Well I have left the store empty handed when they had limited amounts and not in acceptable condition. It happens. I am picky enough to at least want it to be complete.

 

[StrangerGuy]

I wouldn't say it's greed. it's about sustaining game studios, which have to pay salaries to people. I'm very much in favor of creative people getting money in order for them to create art that the rest of us might enjoy.

Your argument would have made sense if creativity in the gaming on the whole has actually improved and diversified with ever-increasing budgets instead we are still seeing the same COD/Halo/BF sequels and wannabes over and over again.

 

[Sulaco]

Your argument would have made sense if creativity in the gaming on the whole has actually improved and diversified with ever-increasing budgets instead we are still seeing the same COD/Halo/BF sequels and wannabes over and over again.

I despise it as much as the next gamer and see your point, but to be fair, those are the games and licenses that shee-...er...people are gobbling up. And at absolutely record breaking numbers.

Creativity sadly doesn't pay the bills, and when it does, it's a major gamble that few seem willing to take when "CoD Clone 53-Black Edition, Platinum" is sure to double your income.

 

[purbeast0]

i feel sorry for those of you who think COD/Halo/BF are the only games out there.

 

[BD2003]

i feel sorry for those of you who think COD/Halo/BF are the only games out there.

Yep. There's like a zillion times more games made for every possible niche nowadays. There sure are a lot of sequels, but there is absolutely no shortage of new and innovative games.

 

[Sulaco]

i feel sorry for those of you who think COD/Halo/BF are the only games out there.

No one said they were.

They clearly greatly influence a large majority of games in their genre though, for good or ill, usually ill, as developers try and shoe-horn their game to fit onto the Halo/CoD/BF bandwagon. Usually with very mixed results.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

So.....if you guys had the choice of methods like these to monetize secondhand sales for the developers, or new games being $80 each with used copies at $75, which would you prefer?

Cause really....that's the choice you're making here.

 

[rageofthepeon]

So.....if you guys had the choice of methods like these to monetize secondhand sales for the developers, or new games being $80 each with used copies at $75, which would you prefer?

Cause really....that's the choice you're making here.

They can monetize secondhand sales. I like buying new games cheap when they are on sale so I wouldn't really be affected. Unless you are getting an amazing deal for used games there's really no point not to buy new and support the developer. Standard new and used price for Uncharted 3 is $59.99/$54.99 from gamestop. If you want to play multiplayer that is another $9.99 for the used copy and in the end is more expensive for something of dubious quality.

The $80/$75 new/used model wouldn't sustain itself anyways. Prices need to be set to what people are willing to pay and in these rough times they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. These are physical copies which are different than digital distribution copies of games. Sellers want to get rid of inventory and sell units that they bought on credit or upfront which is why they are priced much more aggressively.

 

[zerocool84]

I wouldn't say it's greed. it's about sustaining game studios, which have to pay salaries to people. I'm very much in favor of creative people getting money in order for them to create art that the rest of us might enjoy.

Then the same should go to car companies. They have to pay salaries as well. Imagine if Honda made it so you couldn't sell your car after you buy it.

 

[BD2003]

So.....if you guys had the choice of methods like these to monetize secondhand sales for the developers, or new games being $80 each with used copies at $75, which would you prefer?

Cause really....that's the choice you're making here.

Nonsense. They're doing just fine selling at $60 for like 3 months before the price crashes to $20 used. It's just a competitive industry, outputting probably 2-3 times the amount of games that are actually sustainable. So in the end only the really, really good ones survive. And thats fine by me. When a company gets a hit, they strike gold. If they haven't been making good enough games to survive, then good riddance.

These crybabies would have you believe that the industry is going to collapse if they don't do something about secondhand sales. But it's been growing for decades now, all the while they've been crying about it. It's just not the truth, and honestly it's kind of sickening to see gamers and consumers throw in with them about it.

I think they should have to struggle to survive every step of the way. Thats how we end up with games like skyrim/GTA that are so vast you can barely see the end of it, or like cod/bf/halo/gears where the MP has infinite replay value. What keeps you from reselling a game is a game you don't want to stop playing - and that is one definition of a very good game. And that's what we want, right? We're not going to get there by coddling them so they get lazy.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I hope they're ready to adjust prices like PC gaming has had to. But hey, if that's the way things are going, I might be able to accept it.

Fact is, this ignores that used game sales is factored into market prices for games. Hell, that's part of their problem is they're general unwillingness to try different pricing schemes (that don't include throwing some junk in a box and marking it up even higher). There's plenty of games that would probably have sold well if they started out at $30-40, but then they sell it at $60, and then complain it didn't sell well.

I can see them taking issue with places like Gamestop, where they'll buy games from people for like 1/2 what they're worth and then turn around and sell it for almost what it is new (while also marking up new game prices to make the disparity a bit more), but then they should specifically target that company instead of trying to do blanket stuff like this that just hurts everyone.

Even if you don't buy new games, I don't know why you wouldn't take issue with these new practices. For instance, having to sign into multiple places just to play a game? On the PC, you can actually have to sign in 3-4 different places just to play a game you bought.

Plus, this is just more of the same, them blaming something that isn't the root cause of their games not selling as well as they think they should. Its piracy, its used games, its game rentals. They've been whining about this stuff forever, and despite them acting like its bankrupting them the games industry has actually been growing.

Take games like Kane & Lynch and the shitstorm that caused. EA thought the game should review well and sell well. Why, I have no idea. It was an uninteresting concept and featured two of the least enticing characters I've ever seen in a game, with cliched gameplay and a shitty story. If someone had just taken 2 seconds to actually sit down and look at the damn game, they would have been able to gather it was not going to be a major success. Instead we get EA trying to buy reviews and other shit. And then they made a sequel.

 

[Aikouka]

Then the same should go to car companies. They have to pay salaries as well. Imagine if Honda made it so you couldn't sell your car after you buy it.

I'm not sure why people keep comparing selling software (i.e. intangibles) to tangible property such as cars. Sure, there may be some tangibles that come with a game (box, instructions, etc.), but it's simply not the same as a physical item like a vehicle that depreciates in value naturally through use.

 

[micrometers]

this is one of those "morally they're right, but in reality it's not so great an idea"

fwiw the most I will pay for a game is 30 bucks, often used but more often than not a $20 "greatest hits" from amazon.

They really need to go to a Steam model, maybe host some crazy sales to get people interested as well.

OTOH, retail is still an important channel and digital discounts would alienate walmart and gamestop, etc.

so it's hard to tell. Then again, when's the last time anyone here bought a game at walmart?

 

[BD2003]

I'm not sure why people keep comparing selling software (i.e. intangibles) to tangible property such as cars. Sure, there may be some tangibles that come with a game (box, instructions, etc.), but it's simply not the same as a physical item like a vehicle that depreciates in value naturally through use.

It absolutely depreciates. The disc gets scratched. Will become unplayable one day in the future merely by being handled. Demand for it decreases as time goes by and newer models (sequels) are released. As long as they're selling the games on physical objects, I've got a problem with them arbitrarily restricting what I do with that object, to suit their ends.

A digital transaction is surely different, but it also presents a far less valuable product to me, even for the same game. That's the part they're going to struggle with. I hope gamers don't just roll over and pay the same for less.

 

[exdeath]

Console gaming died with the Super Nintendo and Playstation 1 & 2 and when EA and Activition started swallowing the industry whole with their franchise greed.

Enjoy your Call of Duty 19 and a half and Madden 9,345,123 Special Super Turbo Ultra Edition, and make sure to pre order COD 19 and 3/4 and Madden 9,345,123-II coming out a week later; 1 more gun and 1 more player model for the same $69.99!

Good games are out. Recycled content for full price, punch the monkey games, and selling avatar clothes and ring tones is in.

Excuse me while I go play Xenogears on my real PS1 on a RGB monitor.

 

[chalmers]

Console gaming died with the Super Nintendo and Playstation 1 & 2 and when EA and Activition started swallowing the industry whole with their franchise greed.

Enjoy your Call of Duty 19 and a half and Madden 9,345,123 Special Super Turbo Ultra Edition, and make sure to pre order COD 19 and 3/4 and Madden 9,345,123-II coming out a week later; 1 more gun and 1 more player model for the same $69.99!

Good games are out. Recycled content for full price, punch the monkey games, and selling avatar clothes and ring tones is in.

Excuse me while I go play Xenogears on my real PS1 on a RGB monitor.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[American Gunner]

Console gaming died with the Super Nintendo and Playstation 1 & 2 and when EA and Activition started swallowing the industry whole with their franchise greed.

Enjoy your Call of Duty 19 and a half and Madden 9,345,123 Special Super Turbo Ultra Edition, and make sure to pre order COD 19 and 3/4 and Madden 9,345,123-II coming out a week later; 1 more gun and 1 more player model for the same $69.99!

Good games are out. Recycled content for full price, punch the monkey games, and selling avatar clothes and ring tones is in.

Excuse me while I go play Xenogears on my real PS1 on a RGB monitor.

Console gaming is dead? Damn that sucks, what have I been playing all these years. Oh wait, it was consoles. The things that outsell PC. It's hilarious when people say stuff like this.

 

[BD2003]

Console gaming died with the Super Nintendo and Playstation 1 & 2 and when EA and Activition started swallowing the industry whole with their franchise greed.

Enjoy your Call of Duty 19 and a half and Madden 9,345,123 Special Super Turbo Ultra Edition, and make sure to pre order COD 19 and 3/4 and Madden 9,345,123-II coming out a week later; 1 more gun and 1 more player model for the same $69.99!

Good games are out. Recycled content for full price, punch the monkey games, and selling avatar clothes and ring tones is in.

Excuse me while I go play Xenogears on my real PS1 on a RGB monitor.

Lol your rants are always good for a laugh.

I hope I never get this way.

 

[purbeast0]

Console gaming died with the Super Nintendo and Playstation 1 & 2 and when EA and Activition started swallowing the industry whole with their franchise greed.

Enjoy your Call of Duty 19 and a half and Madden 9,345,123 Special Super Turbo Ultra Edition, and make sure to pre order COD 19 and 3/4 and Madden 9,345,123-II coming out a week later; 1 more gun and 1 more player model for the same $69.99!

Good games are out. Recycled content for full price, punch the monkey games, and selling avatar clothes and ring tones is in.

Excuse me while I go play Xenogears on my real PS1 on a RGB monitor.

the saddest part is the people who always say "its the same game with 1 new feature" are the ones who have actually never played the sequels at all and just say things like that because it is the cool thing to do.

dont worry, we'll stay off your lawn.

 

[exdeath]

Has nothing to do with my "lawn". I have a 360 with numerous games running on a 106" 1080p display through Denon/Definitive gear. I am a gamer through and through.

If it was me being old and feeling nostalgia, I'd be praising NES and 2600 because I had those as well and they are even older.

It's not PC gamer elitism either, I'm even more upset with the state of PC gaming and its the primary reason I have a 360. DRM Nazis contributed to PC gaming sucking, besides endless clones and a standard practice of EA and and Activision buying out anything good to rush for max Christmas profits before dropping the bugged unpatched game and its developers like a bad habit for the next profitable and beat to death franchise. And lastly everything is cross platform lowest common denominator development now, so there is little to debate between PC and console gaming any more; virtually identical with the PC version simply being handicapped by console oriented interfaces.

I've played games like Modern Warfare. Shallow and cliche. I watched my 8 year old nephew play it start to finish 3 times in one sitting.

Aside from photorealism and ADHD action, modern gaming experience doesn't hold a candle to the 16/32 bit era. Shiny graphics, realistic boobs, and more explosions on screen and infinite view distance from trillion poly per second GPUs do not make games. I have SNES games with ending sequences that take longer than it takes to beat every FPS clone that comes out every three weeks these days, from an 8 MB cartridge vs a 50GB install...

Don't get me started on DLC. Aside from a few legit expansions, its made developers lazy, and worst of all, causes content to be intentionally left out of a game so it so it canbe rushed to market sooner because they can sell it to you later in increments. Not to mention the endless recycling. Cha-cha-ching!!$$$$$

Game making today is less fun and passion and more about being safe and maximizing profits for the least amount of effort. I'm not against profits or devs making money by any stretch, but when a creative industry becomes driven solely by nothing but corporate quarterly statements, its over.

The real sad casualty is when some small developer puts their heart and soul into a real masterpiece, the game is usually canceled or cut short by the publisher killing funding because the game isn't going to rake in bajillions of dollars from today's ADHD Halo + Fast and the Furious kiddies

They who will never know what its like to just put the controller down for more than 5 seconds and just take in a tear jerking soul searching two hour ending that still makes the hairs on your neck stand up at just hearing the games' title spoken years later.

THAT is a gaming experience not worth trading for all the HDTVs and processing power in the world

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj1Z3IF14qE

And heres the thing. If you've never played it, you'll pass it off as some boring sappy JRPG anime garbage. "ZOMG I can't even see the details on the ejection port on my gun!!!1!" Anybody who has played it and truly understood the scope of it will stop what they are doing dead in their tracks and just wach the whole video start to end in suspense and feel a faint chill down their spine, it won't matter if they played the game 100 times before.

Games today do not do this. Anybody who TRIES to make a game like this today has their budget pulled and spent on Halo 19 & 2/3rds because the game won't be finished in less than 3 months and sell 1 million copies on launch. I could understand if these high volume shallow franchises were necessary to be able to support the more expensive less profit making 2+ year productions to make better games far and few between on the side, but it's not. All the money they rake in and they just turn around and continute to dish out more franchised recycled crap. And now the greed is getting worse by resorting to things like vendor/unit/key lock in and trying to stop game sharing, rentals, and used games. Next thing you know, Angry Birds is on XBL only and it's $59.99 and you have FBI agents busting down your door if you dare take your XBox to your friends house who didn't buy their own copy.

 

[BD2003]

I tried to read that, but it was just another shallow exdeath rant, interchangeable with all the rest.

 

[purbeast0]

im sure he actually watched his 8 year old nephew beat modern warfare 3x in one sitting. sure he did. he hates the game but sat there for over 15 hours while an 8 year old finished it start to finish 3x in a row. bet he didnt even take a bathroom break. yep, totally believable.

the fact he thinks single player is even the focus of a game like modern warfare shows how clueless he is.

and fwiw i have never played mw3 and bought mw2 and played it for like 4 hours total. im not a fan of it either, but i don't bitch about it because there are plenty of other games to go around.