Ars Technica: Stopping the sale of used console games

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exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
I tried to read that, but it was just another shallow exdeath rant, interchangeable with all the rest.

Ah yeah it's hard to focus on anything more than 5 seconds right? Go play some more Halo and make some splosions.
 
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exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
im sure he actually watched his 8 year old nephew beat modern warfare 3x in one sitting. sure he did. he hates the game but sat there for over 15 hours while an 8 year old finished it start to finish 3x in a row. bet he didnt even take a bathroom break. yep, totally believable.

the fact he thinks single player is even the focus of a game like modern warfare shows how clueless he is.

and fwiw i have never played mw3 and bought mw2 and played it for like 4 hours total. im not a fan of it either, but i don't bitch about it because there are plenty of other games to go around.

He was over here all weekend and had the whole entertainment system to himself that day. What would you have done at that age? I didn't literally sit down and watch, but it's hard to miss on a 106" screen running all day right in the middle of the house.

I don't think single player is the focus of that particular game, but it's amusing that you bring that up. Multi player death match games are such a cop out. No story or creativity required, quick to market, tried and true cash cow.

You thinking that 15 hours is some significant time to beat a game *3* times being only reinforces how short and shallow todays games are. I have a Fallout 3 save with over 200 hours in it. Yeah it's one of the few modern games that I can't complain about. But they are far too rare these days, takes too much money to produce when you can just nickel and dime another death match arena game with no real single player story or content. I want more games like that which I can burn a month or two of my life away immersed in another world for days on end, such that I'm disoriented returning to the real world. It's happened a few times on my 360, but nowhere near as much as SNES through PS2 era.

I got my multiplayer shoot em up kick over with Q3A and BF2. It's all the same to me now, done and tired. I prefer huge games that consume my life and take me to other worlds and eventually come to an end, not just sit on my couch and rack up frags for an hour or two. And that goes for PC as well... it's even worse on PC that's why I started messing with consoles again.
 
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exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Lol, i'll go dig out my PONG game.

That's funny. Thinking about it, today's multiplayer death match online games are pretty much all as shallow as Pong once you get past all the pretty HD explosions. Think about it.

One side vs the other until one side wins... and that's the whole game. Playing it by youself is hardly an immserive 10,000 page novel... Where are the latter types of games for players like me? There are some, but you can count them on 1-2 hands. In the 16/32 bit era you couldn't throw a rock into the air without landing on some incredible top notch RPG 3+ years in the making.

That's the root of my problem. I'm an RPG player. RPGs died after the 32 bit era. They aren't as cheap to make and aren't the cash cow of just making some new levels for the same FPS engine and releasing a new CoD every week. FPS versus mode games seem to be *all* there is anymore.
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,931
5,803
126
He was over here all weekend and had the whole entertainment system to himself that day. What would you have done at that age? I didn't literally sit down and watch, but it's hard to miss on a 106" screen running all day right in the middle of the house.

I don't think single player is the focus of that particular game, but it's amusing that you bring that up. Multi player death match games are such a cop out. No story or creativity required, quick to market, tried and true cash cow.

You thinking that 15 hours is some significant time to beat a game *3* times being only reinforces how short and shallow todays games are. I have a Fallout 3 save with over 200 hours in it. Yeah it's one of the few modern games that I can't complain about. But they are far too rare these days, takes too much money to produce when you can just nickel and dime another death match arena game with no real single player story or content. I want more games like that which I can burn a month or two of my life away immersed in another world for days on end, such that I'm disoriented returning to the real world. It's happened a few times on my 360, but nowhere near as much as SNES through PS2 era.

I got my multiplayer shoot em up kick over with Q3A and BF2. It's all the same to me now, done and tired. I prefer huge games that consume my life and take me to other worlds and eventually come to an end, not just sit on my couch and rack up frags for an hour or two. And that goes for PC as well... it's even worse on PC that's why I started messing with consoles again.

i guarantee you i have put more hours into a game that has absolutely no story than you have put into fallout, yet is extremely deep. i have probably put in 5-6x the amount of time you've put into fallout. im talking about street fighter iv (and all iterations).

you just sound like you are butt hurt that there are no good rpg's out now a days. i havent liked RPG's since SNES days so i don't care about that genre at all.

and no im not saying that 15 hours to beat a game is anything to gloat about, i think it's funny that you watched for 15 hours straight. but like you said, you didnt actually watch.

you talk about fallout 3 as being some example, yet it is exactly what you are hating on - a sequel to an IP that has done well in the past. it's okay for you to enjoy a 3rd iteration of a game for 200 hours single player, but it's not okay for "8 year olds" to enjoy the multiplayer on MW3 for 200 hours. yea, real hypocritical.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,931
5,803
126
That's funny. Thinking about it, today's multiplayer death match online games are pretty much all as shallow as Pong once you get past all the pretty HD explosions. Think about it.

One side vs the other until one side wins... and that's the whole game. Playing it by youself is hardly an immserive 10,000 page novel... Where are the latter types of games for players like me? There are some, but you can count them on 1-2 hands. In the 16/32 bit era you couldn't throw a rock into the air without landing on some incredible top notch RPG 3+ years in the making.

That's the root of my problem. I'm an RPG player. RPGs died after the 32 bit era. FPS versus mode games seem to be *all* there is anymore.

ummm ... that is EXACTLY what ANY competitive team game is. that is exactly what any competitive team ANYTHING is - one side vs the other side until one side wins.

you just described wars and professional sports as well.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
you just sound like you are butt hurt that there are no good rpg's out now a days. i havent liked RPG's since SNES days so i don't care about that genre at all.

Why not? Exactly.

ummm ... that is EXACTLY what ANY competitive team game is. that is exactly what any competitive team ANYTHING is - one side vs the other side until one side wins.

you just described wars and professional sports as well.

Point is why does EVERYTHING revolve around competitive online team games now? It's a dead smelly rotting horse, so sick of it. And it's not even that I don't enjoy online frag fests... but FFS what happened to other genres?

you talk about fallout 3 as being some example, yet it is exactly what you are hating on - a sequel to an IP that has done well in the past. it's okay for you to enjoy a 3rd iteration of a game for 200 hours single player, but it's not okay for "8 year olds" to enjoy the multiplayer on MW3 for 200 hours. yea, real hypocritical.

Fallout 3 is a little bit more than taking Fallout 2, having only the level designers work on a "new game" for 3 months and calling it Fallout 3.

To counterpoint your claim of hypocricsy, I feel the same way about the Final Fantasy series. 4, 5, 6 were the pinnacle of the series. Today the name "Final Fantasy" is a total joke riding out the fame of a previously successful series using the name to sell terrible games. Square has long lost it's touch and they now cater to the money making "bouncy b00bs h00ge 'splosions!!11" crowd like everyone else.
 
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Sulaco

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2003
3,860
44
91
you talk about fallout 3 as being some example, yet it is exactly what you are hating on - a sequel to an IP that has done well in the past. it's okay for you to enjoy a 3rd iteration of a game for 200 hours single player, but it's not okay for "8 year olds" to enjoy the multiplayer on MW3 for 200 hours. yea, real hypocritical.

Not to take sides, but that's a reaaaaaally weak argument. They are not even in the same realm.

FallOut 2--->FallOut 3 = 10 years in between, and about as different and revolutionary as you can get.

MW--->MW2--->BlackOps--->MW3 = 4 games within 4 years, all a stones throw from each other in any measurable way.
 

American Gunner

Platinum Member
Aug 26, 2010
2,399
0
71
I'm sorry, but aren't video games supposed to be about entertainment? Exdeath, you act like you are superior to people just because you want long single player games and people playing shooters are beneath you and your 106 inch screen. People like you are what is wrong with gaming, acting like you are so amazing because of you taste. Congrats, you are amazing at the very adult hobby of video games.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
I'm not trying to act "amazing" or "superior", I'm just disapointed in the gaming industry the last couple years. I only bring up my gear to show that I do have current gen systems and gear to show how serious I am with gaming and that I'm not just some old man huddled in a basement with an Atari 2600 and B&W TV yelling at people to stay off my lawn.

People playing shooters doesn't put them beneath anybody, I'm just asking why isn't there anything BUT shooters (or sports and racing rehashes) being released non stop? It's out of hand. Do I need to stick to DS if I want other genres besides CoD 19 3/4 part 6 Platinum Edition Game of the Year Release?

We've been gradually herded this direction for a few years now. OP story isn't surprising at all, the game industry has become corrupt with greed just like cell phone companies, Hollywood, music, etc. and it's really sapped the life out of gaming IMO.

I've never argued there are NO good current gen games, just that they are too far and too few compared to previous generations.

All I can assume is that anyone who doesn't understand where I'm coming from hasn't been "gaming" for more than 5 years or came exclusively from PC shooters and has nothing to really compare to. Ignorance is bliss, be truly thankful if that's the case. I get to play knowing there have been much better.
 
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BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
76
Seems like the industry moved on and just left you and your niche behind. Its one thing to say current games just aren't to your tastes, but honestly, the tirades you go on just make you sound like a lunatic.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
People like Bobby Kotick is what is wrong with gaming today:

Kotick has at times been a controversial figure in the gaming community.In part this can be attributed to advocating a business strategy focused on only developing intellectual property which can be, in his words, "exploited" over a long period, to the exclusion of new titles which cannot guarantee sequels.In responding to why Activision Blizzard chose not to publish certain games following the Activision/Blizzard merger, he stated that focusing on franchises that "have the potential to be exploited every year on every platform with clear sequel potential and have the potential to become $100 million franchises"

Activision and EA can go to hell.

Now a war on used games? Go figure.
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,931
5,803
126
Not to take sides, but that's a reaaaaaally weak argument. They are not even in the same realm.

FallOut 2--->FallOut 3 = 10 years in between, and about as different and revolutionary as you can get.

MW--->MW2--->BlackOps--->MW3 = 4 games within 4 years, all a stones throw from each other in any measurable way.

actually those games are 4 games 5 years between. you left out world at war between mw and mw2, and the same company makes their cod game every 2 years, not every year.

not that it matters, but if you are trying to spew facts, at least get them right.

and cod2 and cod3 were no sleepers either. well, cod2 at least. cod3 wasn't as good.

but i do get your point about fallout 2 and 3. like i said, i havent liked rpg's since the snes days.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,931
5,803
126
I'm not trying to act "amazing" or "superior", I'm just disapointed in the gaming industry the last couple years. I only bring up my gear to show that I do have current gen systems and gear to show how serious I am with gaming and that I'm not just some old man huddled in a basement with an Atari 2600 and B&W TV yelling at people to stay off my lawn.

People playing shooters doesn't put them beneath anybody, I'm just asking why isn't there anything BUT shooters (or sports and racing rehashes) being released non stop? It's out of hand. Do I need to stick to DS if I want other genres besides CoD 19 3/4 part 6 Platinum Edition Game of the Year Release?

We've been gradually herded this direction for a few years now. OP story isn't surprising at all, the game industry has become corrupt with greed just like cell phone companies, Hollywood, music, etc. and it's really sapped the life out of gaming IMO.

I've never argued there are NO good current gen games, just that they are too far and too few compared to previous generations.

All I can assume is that anyone who doesn't understand where I'm coming from hasn't been "gaming" for more than 5 years or came exclusively from PC shooters and has nothing to really compare to. Ignorance is bliss, be truly thankful if that's the case. I get to play knowing there have been much better.

again, if you aren't finding any games other than shooters, racers, or sports games, you need to look harder. i play games nearly daily and haven't played any of those genres in months.

past generations also had A TON of awful games, it wasn't like every game that came out back then were awesome. had just as much shitware back then as they do now.

your assumption is also wrong. i've had every console to exist since the snes days, with the exception of neo geo, cdi, and 3do. but i had access to those cause friends had them. i even had virtual boy and turbo graphics 16. only pc gaming stint i had was for FPS genre back in college. other that it's exclusively consoles.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,931
5,803
126
Ever ask yourself why that is? Did your personal taste change or is it because the quality of the games has declined since then?

it is both. i started to not like rpg's when i first played FF7. game was full of fluff and took so long to do little tings. i hated the special moves that took literally 2-3 minutes to animate.

and now a days i just literally don't have time for games like that.

with street fighter iv, i can play it in spurts of 10 minutes if that is all i have. you can hardly load an RPG to your recent save point in 10 minutes (at least last i checked them out).

but i also will sit down for 3-4 hours straight to play games like uncharted or god of war or ratchet and clank. i love me some single player games still, just not rpgs.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
76
Ever ask yourself why that is? Did your personal taste change or is it because the quality of the games has declined since then?

The JRPG was well suited to those generations. The limited technology prevented them from going as batshit insane as they probably wanted to if given the opportunity. The quality of games overall went up, but JRPGs didn't seem to transition very well beyond the SNES or PS1. Perhaps too much is lost in translation, whereas in previous generations, there was simply just less to translate. A moogle doesn't seem so insane when its a sprite, but give it a voice and it just doesn't work. I think in large part the world just moved on from the painfully linear JRPG. If I wanted to sit and watch a movie, I'd watch a movie...and it probably wouldn't be some crazy anime. The stories just need to get better, more relatable to the western gamer. They were special in a day when games barely had any story to speak of at all. Nowadays they feel like a relic.

Even if it was done well, I dunno if its the kind of game I'm still interested in playing. But whether or not a JRPG can be done well has zero to do with what other games are popular. There's room for it if they can make it work, modernize it so its not so archaic and aggravating. A lot of the stuff those games pulled (random battles, etc) just aren't going to fly anymore.
 
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exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
it is both. i started to not like rpg's when i first played FF7. game was full of fluff and took so long to do little tings. i hated the special moves that took literally 2-3 minutes to animate.

Lulz. Nuff said. You just described everything wrong that happened with the series from then on. But I don't hate RPGs... I just hate FF7+

Should try Xenosaga
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Even if it was done well, I dunno if its the kind of game I'm still interested in playing. But whether or not a JRPG can be done well has zero to do with what other games are popular. There's room for it if they can make it work, modernize it so its not so archaic and aggravating. A lot of the stuff those games pulled (random battles, etc) just aren't going to fly anymore.

False. What other games are popular and sell well in today's market is *exactly* the reason for the decline of RPGs and other genres of long intricate games. RPGs are risky, long production, and very expensive to produce compared to redoing some textures for another vs mode shooter using last years engine. You're right, how well it's done has nothing to do with it. If it can't be made in 6 months and isn't guaranteed to make $100 million the first day of release, it will never see the light of day.

If a small developer tries, and it's even remotely getting any popularity, EA or Activision will buy it up, rush it 18 months ahead of schedule full of bugs to maximize Christmas profits, and when the game doesn't rake in a million sales the first hour of release it gets condemned to the garbage. Yet they will hoard exclusive rights on the IP till the end of time so nobody else can pick it up and resume it.

See below what the CEO of Activision has done to gaming:

Kotick has at times been a controversial figure in the gaming community.In part this can be attributed to advocating a business strategy focused on only developing intellectual property which can be, in his words, "exploited" over a long period, to the exclusion of new titles which cannot guarantee sequels.In responding to why Activision Blizzard chose not to publish certain games following the Activision/Blizzard merger, he stated that focusing on franchises that "have the potential to be exploited every year on every platform with clear sequel potential and have the potential to become $100 million franchises"
 
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Xellos2099

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2005
2,277
13
81
That's funny. Thinking about it, today's multiplayer death match online games are pretty much all as shallow as Pong once you get past all the pretty HD explosions. Think about it.

One side vs the other until one side wins... and that's the whole game. Playing it by youself is hardly an immserive 10,000 page novel... Where are the latter types of games for players like me? There are some, but you can count them on 1-2 hands. In the 16/32 bit era you couldn't throw a rock into the air without landing on some incredible top notch RPG 3+ years in the making.

That's the root of my problem. I'm an RPG player. RPGs died after the 32 bit era. They aren't as cheap to make and aren't the cash cow of just making some new levels for the same FPS engine and releasing a new CoD every week. FPS versus mode games seem to be *all* there is anymore.

I am with you ex-death. Games SHOULD be able to stand up on its own without relying on muilt-player. Like me, i don't give a shit on multilayer beside mmo and fighter. or it would need to teleport whore into the room before i start caring.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
76
False. What other games are popular and sell well in today's market is *exactly* the reason for the decline of RPGs and other genres of long intricate games. RPGs are risky, long production, and very expensive to produce compared to redoing some textures for another vs mode shooter using last years engine. You're right, how well it's done has nothing to do with it. If it can't be made in 6 months and isn't guaranteed to make $100 million the first day of release, it will never see the light of day.

If a small developer tries, and it's even remotely getting any popularity, EA or Activision will buy it up, rush it 18 months ahead of schedule full of bugs to maximize Christmas profits, and when the game doesn't rake in a million sales the first hour of release it gets condemned to the garbage. Yet they will hoard exclusive rights on the IP till the end of time so nobody else can pick it up and resume it.

See below what the CEO of Activision has done to gaming:

I wonder if you actually know why people can't take you seriously. Do you even want to be taken seriously? Or just throw the occasional temper tantrum cause things didn't go your way?

In either case, your dedication to a bygone era and your illusions about the current era is impressive.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
it is both. i started to not like rpg's when i first played FF7. game was full of fluff and took so long to do little tings. i hated the special moves that took literally 2-3 minutes to animate.
I bought the hype on that game, unfortunately, my first FF in many years and definitely the last. Japan just can't make an RPG to save its friggin life, though. It's been this way for a long time. Some people love these kinds of "RPG"s (term used loosely because they are so linear). They aren't my thing. There are still great RPGs, better than anything the SNES ever had. Fallout 3 and Skyrim (I personally prefer Fallout3), for example. Fallout 3 really is a masterpiece, nice open world and just a great game.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,931
5,803
126
I am with you ex-death. Games SHOULD be able to stand up on its own without relying on muilt-player. Like me, i don't give a shit on multilayer beside mmo and fighter. or it would need to teleport whore into the room before i start caring.

there are PLENTY of games that do, but the ones with lasting appeal are pretty much strictly multiplayer games, other than open world games such as fallouts, sky rims, or gtas. and as we know, those games are highly rated AAA titles.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
76
I bet a semi linear RPG could still turn out pretty well. Dragon age was pretty close to a jrpg in many respects. You still had a lot more player agency than in most JRPGs, but it wasn't an open world game. I just don't think the crazy anime stuff flies with western audiences nowadays. Im not even sure if it flies with eastern audiences any more.

That whole genre really did go off the rails. But if point and click adventure games and fighting games can have a resurgence, linear RPGs can too. They seem to have lost their way by focusing on quantity instead of quality. They need to stop trying to reinvent the battle system every game and competing on length, instead of coming up with a story beyond your typical good vs evil vs greater evil nonsense. A start would be to model characters after real people and not cartoon characters.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
If this wanders any further off course the OP is going to be arrested for crashing it into the rocks and abandoning thread...
 
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