Artemis countdown…

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Jul 27, 2020
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NASA better pay Elon to take command of this launch. He will smoke some weed and show how it's done right
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
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It may NOT have been the brightest idea ever reusing old shuttle-tech.

That's the only reason they're "ready" (lol) to launch but it's also the main reason they scrubbed.... seals on those crappy boosters bulging and leaking highly explosive rocket-fuel!




Challenger shortly before the explosion with clearly visible leak burning like a blow-torch due to a leaking seal:




EDIT: I just can't shake a bad feeling about this machine.... like maybe it's going to blow up after launch like Challenger or something.

Truth is however that no matter what we (humans) do lives will be lost getting into space exploration and up until now we've been fortunate in that regard.
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
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Opinion-piece from the 1986 Harvard Crimson:

Morton - Thiokol: Getting Off Easy
By Gregory R. Bell

December 10, 1986

IF YOU THINK Ivan Boesky got off easy, you should hear about Morton-Thiokol, Inc.


Morton-Thiokol manufactured the booster rocket which caused the space shuttle Challenger to explode last January, killing seven astronauts, destroying hundreds of millions of dollars in hardware, and crippling--perhaps irreparably--the U.S. space program.

The problem, you may remember, was traced to a rubber O-ring in the right-hand booster. O-rings may sound insignificant, but they're not. One Air Force official compared the space shuttle's dependency on O-rings to an airplane's dependency on wings. NASA rates O-rings as items of "Criticality I," meaning that their failure could result in the destruction of the space shuttle.

Did Morton-Thiokol treat the O-rings with the scrutiny and care befitting a crucial shuttle component? You decide. In a subcontractor's assembly plant, inspectors found workers storing their lunches in refrigerators alongside strips of rubber used to manufacture the crucial seals. Workers were also found to be using paint marks on the floor to measure the O-rings. And in one Morton-Thiokol plant, an Air Force inspector discovered that new and used O-rings were stored in the same area. In his report, he speculated on the "possibility of intermixing" them during the assembly of the rocket boosters.

Maybe this shouldn't shock us. We've heard about the ineptitude of military/defense contractors before. But after Morton-Thiokol had actually delivered the rocket boosters to NASA, against common sense only multiplied.

Six months before the Challenger disaster, one Morton-Thiokol engineer wrote a memo urging that all shuttle flights cease until questions about O-ring performance could be resolved. Management ignored that advice.

Then, on the eve of the doomed launch, 15 Morton-Thiokol engineers agreed--unanimously--that NASA shouldn't launch the Challenger. They were fearful that overnight sub-freezing temperatures at the Kennedy Space Center would prevent the O-rings from functioning properly. (Morton-Thiokol had never bothered to test the rings' performance at such low temperatures).

Thiokol Executive Vice President Gerald Mason told one of the 15 skeptical engineers to "take off his engineering hat and put on his management hat." Unfortunately, four top executives did just that. They vetoed the engineers' recommendation, and NASA subsequently launched the Challenger in 38-degree weather.

Just over a minute later, the shuttle was consumed in a spectacular fireball.

That's the end of the story for seven astronauts, but not for Morton-Thiokol. Its reaction to the disaster was to find new jobs for two of the engineers who had protested most vociferously against the doomed launch. William Rogers, chairman of the Presidential Commission which investigated the disaster, was correct when he said, "It would seem to me...they should be promoted, not demoted or pushed aside."

Given MORTON-THIOKOL'S bungling, we might expect public outcry against the company. But response has been virtually non-existent. Some remarks have actually been favorable.

The ever-optimistic mayor of Brigham City, Utah, home of a Thiokol plant, said, "It was an unfortunate incident, we have had an awfully good safety record in the past." He added "You can't discount the fact that we have had 24 successful launches."

Actually, it's easy to discount that fact. Especially when you consider that during the course of several of those launches, O-rings were dangerously eroded, and Morton-Thiokol knew it.

So how is Morton-Thiokol paying for its miscues? With a whopping fee? With the termination of its NASA contract? With national disgrace?

None of the above. Officials at the Marshall Space Center recently announced that the maximum "fee reduction" which Morton-Thiokol would receive is $10 million. That's one-tenth of Ivan Boesky's fine. It's not nearly severe enough to be called a slap on the wrist.
On the other hand, NASA officials are considering bestowing a $75 million "incentive award" on the company.

That's absurd.

Morton-Thiokol bears a large portion of the blame for the Challenger disaster. At the very least, it should pay dearly for its miscalculations.
Perhaps a nine-digit fine would convince Morton-Thiokol and other contractors to temper their worship of divine Profit with some common sense.


 
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Jul 27, 2020
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Thiokol Executive Vice President Gerald Mason told one of the 15 skeptical engineers to "take off his engineering hat and put on his management hat." Unfortunately, four top executives did just that. They vetoed the engineers' recommendation, and NASA subsequently launched the Challenger in 38-degree weather.

Just over a minute later, the shuttle was consumed in a spectacular fireball.
Them four should have been hanged or at the very least, served life sentences for manslaughter.
 
Reactions: Captante

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136
Turns out arguing with the actual rocket-scientists was a bad idea.

The one "positive" you want to believe is that they learned their lesson but the more I learn about this "Frankenstein" of a "rocket by committee" the more it looks like Artemis is nearly as complex as the damn shuttle!

NASA may not have learned a damn thing.
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
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Good article imo about SLS's problems


Apparently written prior to the actual "roll-back" due to bulging seals in addition to the fuel-line problem but still a good read.



Ripped from another article on the same site discussing technical aspects of Artemis and its design:

The SLS rocket is the worst thing to happen to NASA—but maybe also the best?

"Alas, construction wasn't that easy. NASA's SLS rocket program has been a hot mess almost from the beginning. It has been efficient at precisely one thing, spreading jobs around to large aerospace contractors in the states of key congressional committee leaders. Because of this, lawmakers have overlooked years of delays, a more than doubling in development costs to above $20 billion, and the availability of far cheaper and reusable rockets built by the private sector.

So here we are, nearly a dozen years after that authorization act was signed, and NASA is finally ready to launch the SLS rock
et. It took the agency 11 years to go from nothing to the Moon. It has taken 12 years to go from having all the building blocks for a rocket to having it on the launch pad, ready for an uncrewed test flight."


As usual we have met the enemy and he is us!
 
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JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
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It took the agency 11 years to go from nothing to the Moon. It has taken 12 years to go from having all the building blocks for a rocket to having it on the launch pad, ready for an uncrewed test flight."


As usual we have met the enemy and he is us!
Why not just do some minor upgrades to the Saturn rocket that sent the Apollo program to the moon?
Create a new modern crew capsule from scratch around those upgrades?

And jesus.. $2B per launch of the non-reusable throw away SLS rocket.

edit:
hm.. Saturn V was $1.2B per launch in today's dollars
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,639
12,767
146
Why not just do some minor upgrades to the Saturn rocket that sent the Apollo program to the moon?
Create a new modern crew capsule from scratch around those upgrades?

And jesus.. $2B per launch of the non-reusable throw away SLS rocket.

edit:
hm.. Saturn V was $1.2B per launch in today's dollars
They did, that's the SLS. Giant pile of pork designed as a jobs program for all 50 states.
 
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Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
We're going to try again tonight. Can't wait to see this baby fly.

Here is a link to everyday astronaut youtube coverage starting at 6:00 PM.


 
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Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
T-30 Min and counting. Correction, around 50 Min.
 
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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,846
13,778
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One of the tracking stations has a bad Ethernet switch so some data isn’t making it to mission control. Should have it replaced soon.
 
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