Article my PhD Scientist Friend Wrote about LASIK Eye Surgery

[wwswimming]

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
It's no different than any other surgery (cosmetic)...there are risks and dangers associated with it. It's no different than any other surgical procedure - there are risks and dangers associated with those, and are just as well hidden.

not true.

when Todd Chesser was surfing at 10 foot Waimea, Hawaii
in 1997, and 2 monster waves came in and he was found
drowned, the surf industry did not cover it up.

when Mark Foo had a similar experience at Maverick's
in 1994 (in much colder water), the surf industry did not
cover it up.

when Marc Welman broke his back rock-climbing & then
went back to climb one of the bigger peaks at Yosemite,
the rock-climbing industry did not cover it up.

the LASIK industry has worked and is working very hard
to muzzle the patients who have been injured by LASIK
and have chosen to speak up.

a recent article in the News Observer, in the Research
Triangle, in North Carolina.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/721249.html

"One of the leaders is Duke Eye Center, whose LASIK surgeons are among the best-trained and best-equipped in the field. But even surgery at Duke's level has damaged a few patients' eyes beyond repair.

One of those patients is Matthew Kotsovolos, 38, of Raleigh. He was the Duke Eye Center's head of finances and received the surgery for free June 8, 2006. It gave him 20-20 vision but left him with intensely dry eyes and excruciating facial pain. He wakes up with sore eyes every morning, wears special goggles to preserve eye moisture and wonders when the pain in his face will kick in.

"I traded in my glasses for permanent head pain, eye pain and these things," Kotsovolos said, pointing to the goggles."

 

[Bleeding Jawa]

I had LASIK about two years ago, and I frequently tell people it was one of the best decisions I ever made. I have no "dry eye" problems at all, no problems with night driving, nothing. It's great. I was seeing 20-20 within 5 minutes of the surgery. Now, my vision is significantly better than 20-20.

My lifestyle makes wearing glasses a pain, and they sometimes gave me headaches. With contacts, my allergies caused my eyes to be really dry and itchy, and sometimes if it was dusty or there was junk in the air, I simply couldn't wear them at all. I got so sick of having serious problems with glasses and contacts, that I decided to check it out. I got the surgery the same week, and have never regretted it for a single moment. There are of course risks with LASIK, like anything else, but in my case, I would contend that there were significant side-effects or even risks with my contacts/glasses.

I think I paid around $3000-3500 for my LASIK. I would be hesitant of some of the advertisers that claim prices like $250 per eye and things like that. Make no mistake...these people are definately running a business. That much is clear in how "efficiently" they quickly deal with multple patients in a row. With that in mind, I guess one should at least ackowledge that fact, and make sure they aren't just automatically accepting the "low bid" in such cases.

 

[PetunZ]

For those of you considering getting LASIK, my suggestion would be to visit your optometrist before getting a consultation from the laser center. I've noticed that my optometrist has given me more knowledge and advice about the procedure before it was done, and more importantly, better care after the procedure. He was the one that made me feel comfortable doing it. The laser center was more concerned about the procedure itself, while my optometrist listened to my worries and actually gave me prescriptions/advice as to how to proceed with my recovery.

He knew that I was really into sports, so every time I came in, I would ask him when I could go play basketball/baseball/snowboard/etc. Plus, he knew the health of my eyes since I'd been going to him for years for contacts.

 

[GoSharks]

Originally posted by: wwswimming

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
It's no different than any other surgery (cosmetic)...there are risks and dangers associated with it. It's no different than any other surgical procedure - there are risks and dangers associated with those, and are just as well hidden.

not true.

when Todd Chesser was surfing at 10 foot Waimea, Hawaii
in 1997, and 2 monster waves came in and he was found
drowned, the surf industry did not cover it up.

when Mark Foo had a similar experience at Maverick's
in 1994 (in much colder water), the surf industry did not
cover it up.

when Marc Welman broke his back rock-climbing & then
went back to climb one of the bigger peaks at Yosemite,
the rock-climbing industry did not cover it up.

WTF do surfing and climbing have to do with surgical procedures, as proposed by RagingBITCH?

 

[Rigomortis]

My wife who was practically blind (-7.5 contacts) before the procedure and my mother who was legally blind before the procedure love the results. My mother now has to use reading glasses small consolation to see normally. I also had a friend I golf with all the time had it done and I am looking at doing it either later this year or next year. My eye doc is working with the torx (sp) contacts for the astigmatism that is progressing in my eyes. I was also told that it may be time to get bi-focal glasses.

The doctor my wife used sees a limited # of people per day. My wife had the procedure done on a Friday called our house to check on her on Saturday and Sunday definitely not an assembly line operation.

 

[kmmatney]

My mom has one eye that is basically useless after Lasik, and another
with halos. She should have never been operated on, as her Corneas were too thin. At least she doesn't have much eye pain.

 

[kmmatney]

I am not a candidate for Lasik, as I have an eye disease (Keratoncus) which makes my Corneas weak. About 18 years ago, my vision start to degrade, and galsses didn't help. It took about 8 different eye doctors before one was finally able to figure out I had Keratoconus. All the doctors before that missed it. I'm wondering if some of the bad outcomes are from people with Keratoconus and the doctor missed it.

 

[wwswimming]

when Todd Chesser was surfing at 10 foot Waimea, Hawaii
in 1997, and 2 monster waves came in and he was found
drowned, the surf industry did not cover it up.

when Mark Foo had a similar experience at Maverick's
in 1994 (in much colder water), the surf industry did not
cover it up.

when Marc Welman broke his back rock-climbing & then
went back to climb one of the bigger peaks at Yosemite,
the rock-climbing industry did not cover it up.

WTF do surfing and climbing have to do with surgical procedures, as proposed by RagingBITCH?[/quote]

when a LASIK patient has a bad outcome, the LASIK
industry does cover it up.

one of the most catastophic outcomes i have witnessed,
the patient was told that they were participating in a clinical
trial involving the Bausch & Lomb Technolas 116.

when we called the university that co-sponsored the
trial, we were told, "we have no record of that patient's
participation in the trial."

i subsequently asked the LASIK surgeon, "hey, what
about patient X". he responded by sending an attorney
to threaten me with a lawsuit for - trademark infringement.

my own surgeon's partner, who was quite well aware that
i am living with eye pain, told a local newspaper reporter
that "LASIK is safe" - and at the time, that partner was quite
aware of my own post-op complications. that gives you an
idea of what the operative definition of the term "safe" is,
as used by the LASIK industry.

when injured LASIK patients speak out about their experience,
the LASIK industry works very hard to cover it up.

if the surf/mountain climbing metaphor doesn't work for
you, forget about it.

the LASIK industry just tried, unsuccessfully, to knock these 3
websites off-line.

http://www.LASIK-Flap.com/
http://www.LASIKFraud.com/
http://www.LASIKDisaster.com/

 

[ja1484]

You will not find a single medical procedure in the entire world that is 100% without risk.

 

[Cyraxx]

Originally posted by: TallBill
Mmmm, I had PRK done for me and deal with dry eyes all the time but its more then worth it to me to be able to see.

I just had PRK done too last Wednesday (1/3/08) by one of the best doctors in the nation (Ralph Berkeley from the Berkeley Eye Center in Houston), who also had PRK done on himself. I am well satisfied with my surgery as well. Still in the recovery phase, but every time I wake up I notice more results, and am told I should be good to go by Monday. Honestly, why is the OP so concerned to put it in your sig? LASIK cutting some of your business or something? You show no facts, no research, just retarded stories that are quoted from Anti-Lasik sites.

Until you get some real facts I highly suggest anyone here take this with the tiniest grain of salt.

Also as someone else stated, there are risks for ANY surgery in the world. When you get LASIK they make you sign and initial 3 pages of possible mistakes/injury etc.. You know the risks you take in life. Also, LASIK is a procedure that has advanced DRASTICALLY in the last 5 years,

http://www.lasiksucks4u.com/ - Are you serious? Come on buddy, find a story from a news site, research, etc... who the hell would honestly read a site with an URL as retarded as this?

 

[Sho'Nuff]

I had it done in 2000. My day vision is still outstanding, but at night I have to polarized antirefractive glasses because of an intense starburst effect that only occurs at night. All in all I am happy, because I wa almost blind without glasses before, but I could have done without the starbursting at night.

 

[TeamZero]

The report is not impressive. It's written like a heavily opinionated magazine article rather than a factual report.

Just my $.02

 

[wwswimming]

Originally posted by: Cyraxx
http://www.lasiksucks4u.com/ - Are you serious? Come on buddy, find a story from a news site, research, etc... who the hell would honestly read a site with an URL as retarded as this?

i'm not crazy about that domain name myself.

however, that webmaster has a lot of facts to relate
regarding the Nevyas, a father daughter LASIK surgeon
team in the Philadelphia area.

as far as "find a story from a news site, research" -
you're not paying attention. Ken Minarik, an optometrist
who treats injured LASIK patients, has done 3 extensive
interviews with newspapers. they were all cancelled due
to objections from advertisers - LASIK surgeons.

in the LASIK SOS website, there is recorded an incident
where a patient has a catastrophic outcome, and their
record is removed from a clinical trial result.

on one of the websites, there is also a transcript of a
recording from a newspaper reporter who admits that
her paper did an article on LASIK complications - and
decided not to do it again, based on complaints from
LASIK surgeons who advertise with their newspaper.

as far as research, that is a good point. there are
thousands of medical articles about LASIK complications.
many of them were used as references in the LASIK report
article. if you don't like the LASIK report article, and you
want people with "M.D." by their name, those articles are
available, also.

one resource for that is Pubmed.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/

another is
http://www.fda.gov/search.html

if you look at the original post, and scroll to the part labelled

LASIK COMPLICATIONS WEB SITES

/\ these people are trying to tell you something. each
of them is a website created by an injured LASIK patient.

/\ the LASIK industry says these people do not exist. if
you look at the forum archives, you find records of
1000's of injured patients going online to find help with
eye pain and refractive errors that onset at the time of
their LASIK, LASEK, IntraLasik, and/or PRK surgery.

one other way to gauge the number of injured patients is
by looking at the sales numbers of Allergan.

who pays $100 for a tiny bottle of eyedrops ? how is it
that Allergan sold 200,000 bottles of Allergan, in 2004 ?

you also find the same thing, over and over, in every case -
in order to sell the surgery, the LASIK surgeon told one or
more outright lies.

 

[Cyraxx]

I skimmed through that LASIK report. Again, that "report" was in August 2006, the stories were even before then pertaining to as far back as 2000. Again, technology has advanced, especially in something this new. All these things were well explained including the dry eyes, night vision, etc, and that these were all risks. These are things they EXPLAIN to you before the surgery, and these dumb asses didn't read it, dry eyes and such are a RISK. Most people have the dry eyes stop after the eye heals, but yes, an incredibly small percent (less than 1, obviously) may have severe problems. Again, that was explained to me as well, and I understood and accepted the risk.

Either way, I posted above saying I had PRK done on 1/3/2008, when I was recovering, I now easily see what I had with glasses, and it continues to improve, and I sure as hell have 0 pain, no dry eyes, etc.

Once again, know the risks you take with the surgery you do. All those gov sites? No articles linked to them. Again, find a news site (abc, fox, etc) , or a government site that says LASIK is fraudulent or extremely hazardous (more than any other types of surgery, obviously). Anyone who calls them self a "doctor" these days can stand up in a white overcoat and proclaim that "lasiksucks4u", but that doesn't mean shit.

 

[wwswimming]

Originally posted by: Cyraxx
I skimmed through that LASIK report. Again, that "report" was in August 2006, the stories were even before then pertaining to as far back as 2000. Again, technology has advanced, especially in something this new.

how can technology advance when top LASIK surgeons
are falsifying clinical trial results ?

the primary things that have changed are the
shaping algorithms (how many pulses & where to
fire them), and the use of a laser to cut the flap (IntraLASIK).

the human cornea is the same. in the old days (1990 ?)
a thinner cornea was considered unhealthy, because it
increases the risk of ectasia & keratoconus (your cornea
bulges and you are one big step closer to needing a
corneal transplant.)

the LASIK procedure is actually very similar to a partial
corneal transplant. except with a partial transplant they
cut all the way through, not 98% of the way through.

and then there's the matter of pointing a high-power
pulsed UV laser directly into someone's eye. that does
not occur during a partial transplant (lamellar kerato-
plasty ?).

All these things were well explained including the dry eyes, night vision, etc, and that these were all risks. These are things they EXPLAIN to you before the surgery, and these dumb asses didn't read it, dry eyes and such are a RISK. Most people have the dry eyes stop after the eye heals, but yes, an incredibly small percent (less than 1, obviously) may have severe problems.

quite wrong.

1/ neither of us know the percent. we
would need a search warrant for LASIK surgeon's
offices, and to call up each of the patients, to know
the true percent.

2/ when the risks are explained, it is in the context
of "LASIK is safe, of course you can trust me, i'm a
Doctor".

i have never seen any LASIK sales documentation
that says, "this procedure has left many patients living
with constant eye pain and partially or wholely disabled.
that applies to the patients of all the experienced LASIK
surgeons, including Extreme Makeover LASIK surgeon
Robert Maloney."

Again, that was explained to me as well, and I understood and accepted the risk.

you understood part of the risk & you had a good outcome.
you don't understand the risk because you haven't met the
patients that the top LASIK surgeons have damaged and worked
very hard to keep out of the public view.

the laser used is a high-power pulsed ultraviolet laser.
a narrow beam of collimated light, about 2 mm in width,
100,000+ times brighter than the sun. (that's conservative,
do the math and it's 800,000+ times brighter, or more.)

pulsed laser means it's on for billionths of a second, at a
time.

do a search for "ultraviolet radiation burn eye", and you
will find the symptoms for that.
http://www.google.com/search?h...eye&btnG=Google+Search
compare those symptoms to the post-op conditions described
by patients. 1 for 1 mapping.

so, LASIK (LASEK, PRK, & IntraLASIK) patients go to a person
with an MD and a high powered pulsed UV laser, and he fires it
into their eyes.

then they come back and describe the exact symptoms of an
ultraviolet radiation burn, in the eye. and the LASIK surgeon
says, "i can't imagine why that would be."

 

[wwswimming]

http://www.newsobserver.com/150/story/920341.html

another article by Sabine Vollmer.

 

[compman25]

After working in the world of ophthalmics designing lenses I would still not have LASIK done at this time.

 

[BeauJangles]

I'm sorry that the surgery didn't seem to go well for you or others, but I still don't see how this is a scam of any sort. Lasik is a procedure and, like all procedures, it has benefits and it has risks. For the population as a whole, the benefit outweigh the risks by far, but, like with ANY procedure, some patients will get screwed.

You harp on the laser and how dangerous it is... of course it is! It cuts your cornea. Do you want to know what else are dangerous? Scalpels, needles, and those saws they use to break your bones. Chemotherapy drugs are toxic. That doesn't mean the risks of these instruments outweigh the benefits, it just means that you need to be aware that the laser isn't just a light bulb and that the person wielding it should have a good deal of experience.

Again, if you believe that ANY procedure is 100% risk-free, you're retarded.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Cyraxx, have an update since your surgery now that it has been a while?

I am planning on scheduling PRK surgery for this summer. After hearing my doctor tell me of the differences between LASIK and PRK, it seems to me that PRK is the way to go (since I will not take any classes this summer, so I will have plenty of time to recover).

 

[Dudewithoutapet]

Wow, thanks for this article. It will make me rethink about the eye surgery and another hit at Google.

 

[abaez]

Here's another article about it: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03...sik&st=nyt&oref=slogin There are lots of comments by readers on the article as well.

I am still on the fence about it. I'd like to get it done, but just too damn scared.

 

[TechBoyJK]

I had it done in 04, including having the flap procedure.

I have a small degree of halos at night and the feeling of eye strain after an 8 hour day at work, but in trade, I'd take this over how I used to be. Maybe 5-6 years from now I'll have it touched up, since I never got 20/20 out of the procedure. (close though, like 20/30 or w/e)

 

[gururu2]

my brother had Lasik done about 4 years ago. He had been wearing glasses for nearly 35 years. He doesnt have to wear glasses anymore and is ecstatic over the results. he splurged on one of the top 3 doctors in Los Angeles. I probably wouldnt do it until I had enough to pay through the wazoo for the very best and most experienced surgeons.