(Article) The Sad State of Religion

[PhineasJWhoopee]

Fail. What's there to compare? Empty claims Merchants Sell Empty. I'm not Buying.

If that's the way you feel then don't buy. Isn't freedom great?

I respect your freedom not to believe and you respect mine to believe. Is that correct?

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

Jesus died and rose from the dead. That makes him pretty unique.

How does that even approach answering the question? First, there is no evidence of his resurrection beyond the Biblical account which has already been called into question. Again, even if I were to grant you that Jesus existed and did all the things reported by the Gospels, how does that prove he was divine or that there is a God at all? And how does this one miracle trump those claimed by any other religion's myths?

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

Jesus claimed he was God and he proved it by rising from the dead. Why would would you chose to follow a dead guy instead?

 

[Ns1]

Jesus claimed he was God and he proved it by rising from the dead. Why would would you chose to follow a dead guy instead?

srsly, how can any reasonable person believe this?

shit raising from the dead. this isn't resident evil.

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

srsly, how can any reasonable person believe this?

Seems like a lot of intelligent, reasonable people do.

 

[zinfamous]

Have you read that thing? I have and I would disagree with that statement.

Maybe he skipped the Jewish part?
:hmm:

oh right, well...there's even some rather nasty stuff in the NT. the words of that asshole Paul in particular.

 

[Ns1]

Seems like a lot of intelligent, reasonable people do.

nobody's perfect

 

[zinfamous]

srsly, how can any reasonable person believe this?

shit raising from the dead. this isn't resident evil.

hey man, I'm still trying to figure out that whole immaculate conception thing.

Unless Mary is the first and still only mammal in recorded history to reproduce through budding, science has yet to show that such a birth is possible.

We've long been able to bring someone back after a heart attack, or a stroke, diabetic coma, whatever....

Yeah, not that them desert folk 2000 years ago would have been able to do this stuff, but we now know such is possible...

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

hey man, I'm still trying to figure out that whole immaculate conception thing.

Unless Mary is the first and still only mammal in recorded history to reproduce through budding, science has yet to show that such a birth is possible.

We've long been able to bring someone back after a heart attack, or a stroke, diabetic coma, whatever....

Yeah, not that them desert folk 2000 years ago would have been able to do this stuff, but we now know such is possible...

To believe in the virgin birth and the resurrection, you have to believe in the supernatural.

Jesus was clearly dead, that's been well established.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

Jesus claimed he was God and he proved it by rising from the dead. Why would would you chose to follow a dead guy instead?

What if the dead guy did something way more awesome than just some stupid resurrection? Seriously, Jesus rises from the dead and we don't hear word one from the dude for 2000 years. Some trick.

Hell, what about someone still alive? I'm more impressed by Kim Jong Il shooting 38 under par, including 11 holes-in-one, on his very first time ever playing golf. Supposedly, rainbows spontaneously appeared across the land when he was born and the birds burst out in song. Also, he doesn't poop. Should we not truly revere this living god?

 

[Ns1]

To believe in the virgin birth and the resurrection, you have to believe in the supernatural.

So you claim something is fact, because you believe it to be so




i love it.


I saw my last dog rise from the dead. I too believe in the super natural. Clearly he must be jesus' dog reincarnated.

You, for one, should welcome your new dog overlord.

 

[sandorski]

If that's the way you feel then don't buy. Isn't freedom great?

I respect your freedom not to believe and you respect mine to believe. Is that correct?

You have Freedom to Believe, but I have the Obligation to pointing out the stupidity of doing so.

 

[zinfamous]

To believe in the virgin birth and the resurrection, you have to believe in the supernatural.

Jesus was clearly dead, that's been well established.

so you believe in ghosts, witches, and warlocks.

cool.

what about vampires and werewolves?

 

[Ns1]

so you believe in ghosts, witches, and warlocks.

cool.

what about vampires and werewolves?

SRSLY, where does one draw the line?


yes it is possible for someone to be raised from the dead, but it is not possible for vampires to exist.


what?

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

MrWizzard, thanks for your thoughtful reply.

- In my quoting Matthew, I did not intend to imply that Jesus literally meant, "I brought a sword. See it?" My point is that Jesus himself admits to the intention of causing division among men, and that his followers are not only to expect abuse from others but to levy it upon those who do not believe in his message. The entire passage is basically an extended version of "It's my way or the highway," which is kind of the definition of intolerance.

- I do agree with you that the Bible is a deep and challenging read, which seems to harm its candidacy as the guidebook for all to live by. How can a layman possibly hope to adhere to the teachings of a book seemingly riddled with contradictions that only scholars can hope to "fully understand"? This is why people pick and choose their beliefs from its pages, claiming that the bad directions either don't count any more or weren't meant to be taken literally.

- I didn't "choose" not to believe that God had some contact with the descendants of Jacob. I have simply seen no extra-Biblical evidence that said God exists, nor that he had any hand in the affairs of the Israelites or any other group of people throughout history, so there is no rational alternative to non-belief in my mind. You can't refute me because I've offered no positive claim, not because all beliefs are equal and respectable on this. On the contrary, there is one right answer, and I'm saying we don't know it. To say otherwise is intellectually dishonest. Unless there is some evidence I've neglected.

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

You have Freedom to Believe, but I have the Obligation to pointing out the stupidity of doing so.

That's what great about living in a free country, we have the right to disagree.

Of course, there's a proper and improper way to disagree.

One can do it respectfully or disrespectfully.

Which way do you think it should be done?

 

[DangerAardvark]

That's what great about living in a free country, we have the right to disagree.

Of course, there's a proper and improper way to disagree.

One can do it respectfully or disrespectfully.

Which way do you think it should be done?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Somebody else claimed that Jesus claimed he was God and, that same somebody claimed that he proved it by rising from the dead.

FTFY

At very best the stories about Jesus are 2nd hand accounts, and are most likely 3rd, 4th, 5th or more-hand accounts. You don't get to assume that everything printed in the Bible is a fact. Anything you wish to be accepted as fact from the Bible will require evidentiary support proportional to the ordinary or extraordinary nature of the claim.

We're not all as gullible as you.

 

[MrWizzard]

MrWizzard, thanks for your thoughtful reply.

- In my quoting Matthew, I did not intend to imply that Jesus literally meant, "I brought a sword. See it?" My point is that Jesus himself admits to the intention of causing division among men, and that his followers are not only to expect abuse from others but to levy it upon those who do not believe in his message. The entire passage is basically an extended version of "It's my way or the highway," which is kind of the definition of intolerance.

- I do agree with you that the Bible is a deep and challenging read, which seems to harm its candidacy as the guidebook for all to live by. How can a layman possibly hope to adhere to the teachings of a book seemingly riddled with contradictions that only scholars can hope to "fully understand"? This is why people pick and choose their beliefs from its pages, claiming that the bad directions either don't count any more or weren't meant to be taken literally.

- I didn't "choose" not to believe that God had some contact with the descendants of Jacob. I have simply seen no extra-Biblical evidence that said God exists, nor that he had any hand in the affairs of the Israelites or any other group of people throughout history, so there is no rational alternative to non-belief in my mind. You can't refute me because I've offered no positive claim, not because all beliefs are equal and respectable on this. On the contrary, there is one right answer, and I'm saying we don't know it. To say otherwise is intellectually dishonest. Unless there is some evidence I've neglected.

-I see your point. I think people are the ones that make it "YOU DO THIS OR YOU ARE GOING TO HELL" Really I believe the message was to be presented and left at that each person feet. If they do not want it, it is their choice you cannot force beliefs on people that does more damage than good. Like when he went to his own town to teach, he was chased out he pretty much dusted off his robe and moved on. He didn't stand at city limits and scream at them.

-There is truth to that point too. I may have mis-spoken when I said I did not understand, I mean I am still learning. Although I do believe the overall message is relatively simple the message itself is hard for people to understand why so they go looking for problems, or it does not agree with them. Some just want more proof. People have a hard time accepting free things. I did some experiments where I gave out different amounts of money sometimes to a random person. I never had one person believe it was free. Many believed it was some trick or they had to do something. I would have to tell them over and over that it was free no strings attached. Some would take the money some would not they just refused to believe it was true. (NO I will not give money out here.) That being said I believe if someone really desires to find the truth and looks they will find it. Part of believing is coming to an understanding of what you believe. Does that make sense?

-Not that I can think of, unless you want to go on the Dead Sea scrolls or the writings of Josephus. That is quite a lot more reading though. Heh

 

[WelshBloke]

hey man, I'm still trying to figure out that whole immaculate conception thing.

Unless Mary is the first and still only mammal in recorded history to reproduce through budding, science has yet to show that such a birth is possible.

I thought the immaculate conception referred to Marys conception not Jesus.

After the church invented the idea of original sin and that we are all cursed with the sins of of parents, someone pointed out that Jesus would be stuck with the sins of his parents so they had to invent the whole immaculate conception thing.

This is what happens when people take made up shit too seriously.

 

[Jeff7]

I thought the immaculate conception referred to Marys conception not Jesus.

After the church invented the idea of original sin and that we are all cursed with the sins of of parents, someone pointed out that Jesus would be stuck with the sins of his parents so they had to invent the whole immaculate conception thing.

This is what happens when people take made up shit too seriously.

Or else they just copied it from the Egyptian god, Horus.

Blessed are you, Horus, who is also Amun-Ra.
Amun-Ra...Amun...Amen. Yeah, close enough.
:sneaky: