As a privacy nut, is it safe

[Ham n' Eggs]

So I fail to see what a big deal Windows 10 is about it. It's what info you have on servers is what everyone should be concerned about.

once Microsoft harvests info/usage data/behavioral data from your computer it is on their... ... ... servers.

 

[Ham n' Eggs]

There's more to an OS than the user interface. Windows 8, 8.1, and 10 all have *considerable* code improvements under the hood. Will you as the end user ever notice most of them? No, but that's the point of a well optimized operating system, it gives you more of your resources to do what you want with them.

Frankly, if I don't notice the "under the hood stuff" then I don't need it. Also, if *considerable* code improvements comes bundled with "under the hood" spyware that is hostile to privacy then I don't need. I also don't want it.

It is self evident that many others feel the same as I do with regards to not wanting to be spied on.

 

[dealcorn]

It is expensive to prevent your operating system from spying on you. You have to learn Linux or another OS with comparable security. That price is far too high for most citizens. Fortunately, it is free to vent on forums and do nothing.

 

[Mushkins]

Frankly, if I don't notice the "under the hood stuff" then I don't need it. Also, if *considerable* code improvements comes bundled with "under the hood" spyware that is hostile to privacy then I don't need. I also don't want it.

It is self evident that many others feel the same as I do with regards to not wanting to be spied on.

And that's your choice, but denying those improvements exist or are meaningful for other people is silly and self-centered.

Also the amount of tinfoil hat stuff being shoved down everyone's throats on this forum is getting out of hand. If you're that dead set against the telemetry data being collected then don't use the product and move on with your life, end of story. We don't all need a lecture on privacy every time the product is discussed.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Also I have no idea what you mean by a "great suite of programs, games..." All of that is third party software that has nothing to do with the OS or Microsoft, and unless it's an ancient piece of software no longer being supported it all still works on Windows 10.

Programs, features, games. How about crippled ShadowCopy. And speaking of the ability to run ancient piece of software is gone too with the removing of Windows XP Virtual Mode. The people that used Windows Media Center to record protected shows I won't even mention. Now why the hell do I need to use/install 3rd-party software all the time Microsoft decide to remove a useful feature/functionality? The replacement software doesn't always work the same. Microsoft has clearly ignored the needs of the desktop users, how many updates it has taken to make the start button half as usable, and we are still not there, customization wise. Pathetic. If I need "masturbation" with GUI, there is *nix ya know. Both are free*.

* - if you upgrade from 7/8/8.1.

There's more to an OS than the user interface. Windows 8, 8.1, and 10 all have *considerable* code improvements under the hood. Will you as the end user ever notice most of them? No, but that's the point of a well optimized operating system, it gives you more of your resources to do what you want with them.

And that's your choice, but denying those improvements exist or are meaningful for other people is silly and self-centered.

Nobody is denying under-the-hood improvements we have seen since Windows 7. It's just these improvements aren't as important to the vast majority of PC desktop users, as the other things Microsoft did change with its OS. DirectX 12 apps are nowhere to be seen yet and likely will take time for this to really take off. Sure, it's great to see Windows becoming more efficient and faster running on the same hardware but these improvements aren't as crucial as they could have been, say in early Vista days, when people had significantly weaker computers, much less ram, slower hard drives than what we have today. Who cares, if it uses ~500mb less memory when newer systems come out with 8-32 gigs of RAM out of the gate. And using Windows 10 on older systems doesn't make much sense either because, the biggest bottleneck today isn't Windows but 3rd-party programs that can bog down any system with ease. And 3rd party programs like modern web browsers along with the poorly optimized web content do require a fast CPU with plenty of ram, something that the older computers may not have to begin with. The progress has slowed down in all key areas, and Microsoft constantly juggling features around isn't helping at all. They change their "vision" every quarter seems like.

Also the amount of tinfoil hat stuff being shoved down everyone's throats on this forum is getting out of hand. If you're that dead set against the telemetry data being collected then don't use the product and move on with your life, end of story. We don't all need a lecture on privacy every time the product is discussed.

Personally, I don't mind discussing these things. This is a forum after all. Telemetry and privacy is just part of the problem, in my opinion. Windows 10 Home/Pro under-delivered in all areas except speed/efficiency and of course dumbing down. Luckily it isn't any slower than Windows 8.1 at least, yeah there is light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[TeknoBug]

Be cautious of what you store on your Windows 10 system because it can end up on their servers (even OneDrive) so if you have a file full of passwords you refer to when you need it or you handle work sensitive documents (I use encrypted pendrives), well who knows where that can end up so be sure it's encrypted (password protected in MS Office Word or LibraOffice) and not synced. Dropbox and other sites has been hacked recently so you never know if MS servers can fall to that.

Other than that I wouldn't worry about what type of data is being harvested, unless you're doing terrorist activity, watching child porn, stalking 13 year olds, etc.

There are guides all over tenforums.com that shows you how to minimize the telemetry from Windows 10.

 

[Mushkins]

Programs, features, games. How about crippled ShadowCopy.

But you didn't say "Shadow copy is broken," you were talking about third party software. Though I'll bite, how exactly is shadow copy broken in Windows 10?

And speaking of the ability to run ancient piece of software is gone too with the removing of Windows XP Virtual Mode.

Windows 10 comes with a slimmed down version of HyperV, a much more robust virtualization solution for all of your old app needs, you can run anything for any other OS, not *just* a watered down compatibility setting specific to Windows XP (that didn't always work and was barely configurable).

If you're running a *lot* of incompatible software, then that's a separate issue that maybe you need to take a different approach to addressing, or simply don't upgrade to Windows 10 yet. Windows 7 and 8.1 are both still supported operating systems, it's up to you to decide what to run that meets your needs, nobody's forcing you to upgrade on day 1.

The people that used Windows Media Center to record protected shows I won't even mention. Now why the hell do I need to use/install 3rd-party software all the time Microsoft decide to remove a useful feature/functionality?

A feature less than 1% of users took advantage of, it was a very niche feature for videophiles and HTPC users. It was a good product, but it makes complete sense they dropped support. That's life.

Microsoft has clearly ignored the needs of the desktop users, how many updates it has taken to make the start button half as usable, and we are still not there, customization wise. Pathetic. If I need "masturbation" with GUI, there is *nix ya know. Both are free*.

What? Microsoft took the outrage with the mess of a desktop experience that was Windows 8 to heart and actually made Windows 10 a desktop-focused experience. They did a pretty good job of it so far, and they keep making it better every update. Your outrage here is something I'm not understanding, unless you're just pining over the old Windows 7 start bar for some reason.

Nobody is denying under-the-hood improvements we have seen since Windows 7.

That's actually *exactly* what the guy I was replying to was doing

It's just these improvements aren't as important to the vast majority of PC desktop users, as the other things Microsoft did change with its OS. DirectX 12 apps are nowhere to be seen yet and likely will take time for this to really take off. Sure, it's great to see Windows becoming more efficient and faster running on the same hardware but these improvements aren't as crucial as they could have been, say in early Vista days, when people had significantly weaker computers, much less ram, slower hard drives than what we have today. Who cares, if it uses ~500mb less memory when newer systems come out with 8-32 gigs of RAM out of the gate.

I agree for home users, but Windows isn't just for home users. Managing system resources is a really, really important thing in the business world, which makes up the bulk of Microsoft's sales. Home users get that stuff as an added perk, so I don't see a negative here. Would a home user upgrade *just for this*? Of course not, but computing needs for home users vs businesses are two entirely different topics. And that's not to say that home users get no benefits, simple things like transferring files over a network were greatly improved since Windows 7.

And using Windows 10 on older systems doesn't make much sense either because, the biggest bottleneck today isn't Windows but 3rd-party programs that can bog down any system with ease. And 3rd party programs like modern web browsers along with the poorly optimized web content do require a fast CPU with plenty of ram, something that the older computers may not have to begin with. The progress has slowed down in all key areas, and Microsoft constantly juggling features around isn't helping at all. They change their "vision" every quarter seems like.

Third party software running like hot tar on ancient hardware is not microsoft's problem or responsibility though, and has little to do with the OS in question. But if anything this situation is where those optimizations you claim home users don't see or care about are the most important. The OS using 500MB less RAM on a system that only has 3GB is huge. The smaller resource footprint of Windows 8 over Windows 7 was one of the few things in the "win" column when it was released.

Personally, I don't mind discussing these things. This is a forum after all. Telemetry and privacy is just part of the problem, in my opinion. Windows 10 Home/Pro under-delivered in all areas except speed/efficiency and of course dumbing down. Luckily it isn't any slower than Windows 8.1 at least, yeah there is light at the end of the tunnel.

I don't mind discussing them either, but you have to admit lately there hasn't been a whole lot of discussion in these topics. A good bit of it is people going on rants about how Microsoft hates us for our freedoms or wants to give all our web search history to the NSA and whoever uses it is a blind sheep who should be evicted from the country and wants to take our rights away or god knows what other crazy conspiracy nonsense. Certainly not constructive criticisms or discussion, it's starting to feel like some apocalypse survivalist forum instead of a group of professionals and enthusiasts.

 

[Ham n' Eggs]

That's actually *exactly* what the guy I was replying to was doing

wrong friend.

 

[Ham n' Eggs]

A good bit of it is people going on rants about how Microsoft hates us for our freedoms or wants to give all our web search history to the NSA and whoever uses it is a blind sheep who should be evicted from the country and wants to take our rights away or god knows what other crazy conspiracy nonsense. Certainly not constructive criticisms or discussion, it's starting to feel like some apocalypse survivalist forum instead of a group of professionals and enthusiasts.

let's see, you left out terrorism, child pron and the tinfoil retort.

So sorry but those don't count as counter-arguments to people's objection to being monitored, recorded and data-mined by their OS. And a "let's not be naieve" correction for you, the NSA already has a copy of everyone's search history so there is no need for them to rely on getting a second copy as it transits from your PC to Microsoft servers. But, of course they will get a copy that too, it's their job after all.

 

[Mushkins]

let's see, you left out terrorism, child pron and the tinfoil retort.

So sorry but those don't count as counter-arguments to people's objection to being monitored, recorded and data-mined by their OS. And a "let's not be naieve" correction for you, the NSA already has a copy of everyone's search history so there is no need for them to rely on getting a second copy as it transits from your PC to Microsoft servers. But, of course they will get a copy that too, it's their job after all.

And you missed that I was intentionally exaggerating my examples.

Microsoft is **VERY** clear that they are sending telemetry data back to their servers. There's no argument here, you 100% have the right to not like or support their collection of telemetry data.

But they're not "getting one over on you" or "taking advantage of you" or anything of the sort. If you don't like it, don't use their product. You don't get to use their product anyway and then act like they're the Big Bad Wolf abusing you though.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Be cautious of what you store on your Windows 10 system because it can end up on their servers (even OneDrive)

I'm logged into Onedrive and the *ONLY* stuff on there are things I've EXPLICITLY put there. I have never seen Onedrive go off and copy files of mine without my taking action first...and the idea that MS is copying files off your hard drive...well, I think that's little more than tin foil hat wearers spreading FUD. Unless of course you have evidence of the file being sent over the wire (like a network trace.)

 

[sweenish]

Frankly, if I don't notice the "under the hood stuff" then I don't need it. Also, if *considerable* code improvements comes bundled with "under the hood" spyware that is hostile to privacy then I don't need. I also don't want it.

It is self evident that many others feel the same as I do with regards to not wanting to be spied on.

wrong friend.

That's a steaming pile of hypocrisy.

 

[cytg111]

I was full-on ubuntu back in gnome2 days, come gnome3 and unity and i was back on windows... Trialing mint(mate) now and very pleased.. I will have to suck up the dualbooting when I want to try out a game.. Such is life... Farewell ms. suck it.

 

[sweenish]

Not Cinnamon?

gnome2 is nice enough, but it is not the be-all.

 

[mopex]

And you missed that I was intentionally exaggerating my examples.

Microsoft is **VERY** clear that they are sending telemetry data back to their servers. There's no argument here, you 100% have the right to not like or support their collection of telemetry data.

But they're not "getting one over on you" or "taking advantage of you" or anything of the sort. If you don't like it, don't use their product. You don't get to use their product anyway and then act like they're the Big Bad Wolf abusing you though.

I say anyone who has been using their products for years are entitled to complain about anything they are unhappy about. Simply telling these people they should get rid of their computers and buy Macs or use an OS that might not do everything they need it to do or might be too complicated to use seems like a kick in the face. How do you get companies to change their products if you don't complain?

 

[sweenish]

Use someone else's product, like suggested?

If a company does something I don't like, I DON'T GIVE THEM MY MONEY.

It's pretty cut and dry.

 

[DustinBrowder]

Its 100% unsafe and Microsoft is directly spying on everything you do! Check out my signatures to find out more. But you need to actually look into your update history and remove updates that install telemetry to your win 8.1 OS.

Microsoft is trying to spy on win 7 and 8.1 systems as well by installing telemetry and other spy tools through their "recommended" update. So I suggest you Google it and find out the names of the updates and remove them and black list those updates so you are not bothered with them again!

Apart from that block everything from MS in your firewall, MS one of a 3rd party one. If you have a router block MS servers from there as well.

I'm just hoping that we are going to get an alternative in the next few years before MS literally reads all our data and business information and personal files and steals them and used them as theirs.

 

[HeXen]

Bit dramatic

 

[Mushkins]

Bit dramatic

Seriously. I'm guessing Microsoft has a whole team of employees who literally get paid to just poke around your C:\ drive aimlessly looking for your tax documents, your kid's book reports, and your family vacation photographs.

Methinks the tinfoil hat is on too tight and it's cutting off circulation to the brain.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Why are we under the assumption W10 is only probing the C drive?

 

[Z15CAM]

As a privacy nut, is it safe

Into WinX - NO!

Not now Wait!

 

[balloonshark]

Why are we under the assumption W10 is only probing the C drive?

With Windows 8.1 after the telemetry update my data hdds would spin up and svchost (vortex and settings) would connect to Singapore. How that is acceptable to anyone is mind boggling.

If it is only telemetry data then why can't we have the option to see the unencrypted data before it is sent? Also, there is no way in heck some of your data doesn't end up in the mix. In my experience nobody is perfect and MS keeps proving that time and time again.

 

[RampantAndroid]

If it is only telemetry data then why can't we have the option to see the unencrypted data before it is sent?

You can actually view it. You need only install Fiddler or wireshark. I don't know wireshark, but I do know fiddler - it installs a certificate on your local system that can decrypt the HTTPS traffic and read it.

http://www.telerik.com/fiddler

 

[cytg111]

Seriously. I'm guessing Microsoft has a whole team of employees who literally get paid to just poke around your C:\ drive aimlessly looking for your tax documents, your kid's book reports, and your family vacation photographs.

Methinks the tinfoil hat is on too tight and it's cutting off circulation to the brain.

Thats not the issue. The issue is the data is there, much like healthcare-data, cloud-data, social-media-data and megacorp-bigdata and it is just not secure. Who cares right? You will, in 10 years, when that ancient facebook thing of the past is just a zip'ed database you download from some torrent-like service and run through all your wife's prior indiscretions.. or her yours. I dont think its my neighbors business what girl broke my heart 10 years ago or how i felt when my dog died.
You may think you have nothing to hide, but im betting you do, im betting 99% of the human population do.
It is called privacy and they're stealing it from us and turning it into an ad.
And its effen disgusting.

 

[smakme7757]

A privacy nut doesn't use Windows. Windows users may range from 'not caring' to 'mildly concerned' about privacy, but not a nut.

+1.