As it stands, 1900 > 7900GTX?

[Nocturnal]

Is that right?

 

[aggressor]

They are about even, I believe. ATI wins FEAR (DX), but nVidia wins Quake4 (OGL). Same as usual.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

7900 is pretty hot, very comparable to X1900, even slightly ahead. but for what its worth they are neck and neck. however if you take alook at AT's article you will see they tested some uber large resolutions. this is where the X1900 starts to show abit more muscle

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

Much more important than 3 or 4 fps, are other considerations like features, image quality, and heat/noise/power consumption.

ATI wins image quality by most people's estimation.

ATI has features like HDR(not FP16 of course) + AA, and angle-independant AF.

Nvidia has a better cooling solution, tends to draw less power, and is hence, quieter and cooler running.

SLI is superior to Crossfire at the moment, so if dual cards are your thing, Nvidia is clearly tops there.

So as you can see, there is no 'one is clearly better than the other'. It all depends on what you're looking for.

 

[Matthias99]

ATI has features like HDR(not FP16 of course) + AA

The X1800/X1900 cards have OpenEXR HDR support.

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

ATI has features like HDR(not FP16 of course) + AA

The X1800/X1900 cards have OpenEXR HDR support.

Hmm, it was my understanding that x1800/1900 cards generally use FX10 when AA is applied to HDR, because the performance hit would be too big with FP16.

 

[TecHNooB]

The two are pretty even. The biggest problem with the X1900 is that it runs super hot (load temps can easily exceed 80C). The 7900GTX is still based on G70 architecture so it can't do HDR+AA, which sucks because who wants to spend $500+ on a videocard and be unable to use HDR and AA at the same time.

 

[moonboy403]

i believed that i read somewhere saying that the gtx doesn't top 72C on full load

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: TecHNooB
The two are pretty even. The biggest problem with the X1900 is that it runs super hot (load temps can easily exceed 80C). The 7900GTX is still based on G70 architecture so it can't do HDR+AA, which sucks because who wants to spend $500+ on a videocard and be unable to use HDR and AA at the same time.

Agreed- with one but - Keep in mind Game designers design their stuff based on technology adoption. For NVIDIA they have support HDR since the 6800 without HDR+AA support. ATI has had to models the X1800 series and the X1900 series that Support HDR which also support HDR+AA. The X1800 was one of the worse series yet (in sales I think worse then the 5800) and where quickly replaced by the X1900 which seams to be selling well. In one method (HL2) they can support the three gens of Nvidia and the 1.5 Gen from ATI and also all past DX 9 cards. Or two they can go the EXRs way of HDR and support only 1.5 gens with use of AA. I think instead of screwing over the owners of the more prolific cards just to support basically he X1900 most will go for something along the lines of option A. So I question whether or not this will be an issue long term, although this does affect short term gaming.

 

[DeathReborn]

Originally posted by: TecHNooB
The two are pretty even. The biggest problem with the X1900 is that it runs super hot (load temps can easily exceed 80C). The 7900GTX is still based on G70 architecture so it can't do HDR+AA, which sucks because who wants to spend $500+ on a videocard and be unable to use HDR and AA at the same time.

That "who" is people like me. I at present have not seen a implementation of HDR that looks like they claim "more realistic". The closest to "realistic HDR" I have seen in games if HL2's implementation.

For me HDR is not a feature i'm going to be using in the near future. Oblivion may have HDR but i'll turn it off unless it produces the realistic effect it's supposed to. AA is a much more attractive feature to me, something both NV & ATI can do.

7900GTX = X1900 imo

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: DeathReborn

Originally posted by: TecHNooB
The two are pretty even. The biggest problem with the X1900 is that it runs super hot (load temps can easily exceed 80C). The 7900GTX is still based on G70 architecture so it can't do HDR+AA, which sucks because who wants to spend $500+ on a videocard and be unable to use HDR and AA at the same time.

That "who" is people like me. I at present have not seen a implementation of HDR that looks like they claim "more realistic". The closest to "realistic HDR" I have seen in games if HL2's implementation.

For me HDR is not a feature i'm going to be using in the near future. Oblivion may have HDR but i'll turn it off unless it produces the realistic effect it's supposed to. AA is a much more attractive feature to me, something both NV & ATI can do.

7900GTX = X1900 imo

The way Oblivion renders in HDR allows for HDR + AA even on nVidia cards as far as I know.

 

[moonboy403]

now that the wait for 7900 series is over.....the next big thing comes down to the release of the almight oblivion!

hopefully i won't have much hw to do for the next month of so, but i highly doubt it

 

[thepd7]

I think what most people don't realize (I sure didn't) is that at 1024x768 or even 1280x1024 you don't even come close to using the high-end cards. I bought an x1800xt when the x1900s came out and I barely load it at all (I play HL2 at 1280x1024 on high settings). It looks like the x1900 = 7900 gtx except the x1900s show their potential at the very high resolutions, but unless you play 1600x1200 or so, you will get outstanding performance out of even 3rd tier cards right now. So unless you have a huge monitor, save money on the video card, go with 7800 gt or x1800, maybe even x850.

 

[moonboy403]

that's not true, if you are only limited to 1280 x 1024

you can then crank up the aa and af

even when i had my 1280 x 1024 monitor with 7800 gt sli
i barely felt adaquet becaue i always crank up the aa and af

 

[DeathReborn]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: DeathReborn

Originally posted by: TecHNooB
The two are pretty even. The biggest problem with the X1900 is that it runs super hot (load temps can easily exceed 80C). The 7900GTX is still based on G70 architecture so it can't do HDR+AA, which sucks because who wants to spend $500+ on a videocard and be unable to use HDR and AA at the same time.

That "who" is people like me. I at present have not seen a implementation of HDR that looks like they claim "more realistic". The closest to "realistic HDR" I have seen in games if HL2's implementation.

For me HDR is not a feature i'm going to be using in the near future. Oblivion may have HDR but i'll turn it off unless it produces the realistic effect it's supposed to. AA is a much more attractive feature to me, something both NV & ATI can do.

7900GTX = X1900 imo

The way Oblivion renders in HDR allows for HDR + AA even on nVidia cards as far as I know.

If that is the case then i'll still turn it off if in my eyes it is of substandard quality. If it looks good enough to me i'll use it. On the other hand, if it looks good and is not able to run on NV cards (HDR+AA that is) then I have a X1800XT Crossfire setup on my other PC to run it with.

 

[EuR Fr3nCh T3rRoR]

I don't know why everyone says the X1900XTX runs that hot, 80C is really not that hot compared to lets say the 6800Ultra. Or even the two 256 7800GTX's that are in my second rig, at times my top card will reach like 74C. Even though, I wish you can get a GPU that doesn't exceed 50C on stock cooling, but thats just dreaming. I have a friend who actually owns a X190XTX. He has the fan running at 100% and he can keep his temps below 50C on full load, he hasn't overclocked the GPU yet though.

Heres a quick question, In my second rig, I have 2 EVGA 256MB 7800GTX's. I sold them and can now purchase a X1900XTX and have a little bit of money in my pocket. If I do this, will I see a decrease in performance? I mean, am I doing the wrong thing here? I am never getting rid of my 2 512MB 7800GTX's that are in my first rig, but the two 256 7800GTX's seemed a little old to me, so I kind of tempted to get rid of em....Let me know what you think mate...By the way, I like to play my games at 1600x1200 with ATLEAST 4xAA and 8xAF....Will i see a decrease in performance by doing this trade?

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: EuR Fr3nCh T3rRoR
Heres a quick question, In my second rig, I have 2 EVGA 256MB 7800GTX's. I sold them and can now purchase a X1900XTX and have a little bit of money in my pocket. If I do this, will I see a decrease in performance? I mean, am I doing the wrong thing here? I am never getting rid of my 2 512MB 7800GTX's that are in my first rig, but the two 256 7800GTX's seemed a little old to me, so I kind of tempted to get rid of em....Let me know what you think mate...By the way, I like to play my games at 1600x1200 with ATLEAST 4xAA and 8xAF....Will i see a decrease in performance by doing this trade?

I would think it would be better to sell the 512MB ones (since they have been going for a premium) and keep the 256MB ones (or sell them all and get 7900GTs instead), but hey, it's your money...

You'll probably lose some performance going from a 7800GTX SLI to an X1900XTX. An X1900XTX is not twice as fast as a 7800GTX in most situations, and SLI usually seems to get you a 50-80ish% performance boost. You can look at 7900GT SLI versus X1900XTX numbers to get some idea; the 7900GT is only a little bit faster than a 7800GTX.

 

[TheRyuu]

Originally posted by: DeathReborn

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: DeathReborn

Originally posted by: TecHNooB
The two are pretty even. The biggest problem with the X1900 is that it runs super hot (load temps can easily exceed 80C). The 7900GTX is still based on G70 architecture so it can't do HDR+AA, which sucks because who wants to spend $500+ on a videocard and be unable to use HDR and AA at the same time.

That "who" is people like me. I at present have not seen a implementation of HDR that looks like they claim "more realistic". The closest to "realistic HDR" I have seen in games if HL2's implementation.

For me HDR is not a feature i'm going to be using in the near future. Oblivion may have HDR but i'll turn it off unless it produces the realistic effect it's supposed to. AA is a much more attractive feature to me, something both NV & ATI can do.

7900GTX = X1900 imo

The way Oblivion renders in HDR allows for HDR + AA even on nVidia cards as far as I know.

If that is the case then i'll still turn it off if in my eyes it is of substandard quality. If it looks good enough to me i'll use it. On the other hand, if it looks good and is not able to run on NV cards (HDR+AA that is) then I have a X1800XT Crossfire setup on my other PC to run it with.

Could have sworn Oblivion uses the HDR that nvidia CAN'T do AA with.

 

[Shadowmage]

That is correct. It has been confirmed in an interview.

 

[darXoul]

Like I said many times before, I don't like HDR. I really don't know what's so special about it. The bloom effect makes scenes look almost surreal. Maybe HL2 is decent in terms of HDR implementation. Other than that, also considering the performance drop, I'd stay away from HDR. Of course, this is my subjective, personal opinion.

 

[Bull Dog]

About Oblivion:

If it uses pixel shaders for HDR like HL2: Lost Coast does, then HDR+AA will be possible.
If it uses FP16 or whatever its called then HDR+AA will only be possible on ATI hardware.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Dethfrumbelo
Hmm, it was my understanding that x1800/1900 cards generally use FX10 when AA is applied to HDR, because the performance hit would be too big with FP16.

Could be the case (haven't heard anything about it; maybe this is why it needs some level of game support?); however, I'm almost certain the hardware is physically capable of doing FP16 + MSAA. Even if it's painfully slow.

The R520/R580 can definitely do FP16 without AA. The way I read your first post, I thought you were saying they couldn't do FP16 at all.

 

[CP5670]

Originally posted by: darXoul
Like I said many times before, I don't like HDR. I really don't know what's so special about it. The bloom effect makes scenes look almost surreal. Maybe HL2 is decent in terms of HDR implementation. Other than that, also considering the performance drop, I'd stay away from HDR. Of course, this is my subjective, personal opinion.

The HDR in many games seems to consist of two separate things, the bloom effect and the high contrast lighting. I don't like the bloom at all (not all HDR games use it, but most seem to), but the difference in colors and lighting is well worth it.

 

[EuR Fr3nCh T3rRoR]

Like I said many times before, I don't like HDR. I really don't know what's so special about it. The bloom effect makes scenes look almost surreal. Maybe HL2 is decent in terms of HDR implementation. Other than that, also considering the performance drop, I'd stay away from HDR. Of course, this is my subjective, personal opinion.

I think the Source engine implemented HDR the best, my opinion. I was blown away when I first played Lost Coast.

 

[DeathReborn]

Originally posted by: EuR Fr3nCh T3rRoR

Like I said many times before, I don't like HDR. I really don't know what's so special about it. The bloom effect makes scenes look almost surreal. Maybe HL2 is decent in terms of HDR implementation. Other than that, also considering the performance drop, I'd stay away from HDR. Of course, this is my subjective, personal opinion.

I think the Source engine implemented HDR the best, my opinion. I was blown away when I first played Lost Coast.

1 good thing Valve has going for them is that they at least TRIED to make HDR look realistic and not just overbright garish whiteness (see SS2).

Taking HDR away from Oblivion is no worse than Bethesda removing Shadows & the HQ Textures from the game in my opinion. Before anyone says about it... I am going to be purchasing a SLI setup of 7900GT's in April (bonus time for me) to go into my main rig while the X1800XT's idle until I pick up FEAR again.

I do base my purchasing decisions on the software I intend to use in the near future, this time it just happens to be UT2007, Oblivion & Armed Assault (should it see the light of day this year).