ASA Softball / Baseball rule question - only chime in if you know what you are talking about :)

Al Neri

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2002
5,680
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Situation:

A homerun is hit.

Batter rounds the bases.

Before the next play begins - with the ball in play - the pitcher throws the ball as an appeal to third saying that he did not touch third on the home run. Umpire says "No, he touched third, but he didn't touch second" Pitcher - after receiving the ball - whilst still in play throws the ball to second.

The umpire says "Only one appeal is allowed" is this the right ruling? I was under the impression that you can appeal to any base any time so long as the ball is "in play."
 
Nov 5, 2001
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I can't say for certain, but I would say that the ball was NOT in play, as it was a home run. In our league you don't even round the bases, just go to the dugout.
 

Toasthead

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2001
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The umpire would never say anything about him touching bases other than the base appealed to. The ruling would either be safe or out. Ive never heard of an umpire saying anything otherwise.
 

Al Neri

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2002
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Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
I can't say for certain, but I would say that the ball was NOT in play, as it was a home run. In our league you don't even round the bases, just go to the dugout.

it's not a matter of the ball being in play.

to make an appeal the ball has to "be in play" that's why I clarified that.

There are no fences where we play - so anything and everything must be legged out.

I wonder where you play if you hit a ball over a fence and don't trot around the bases? That's weird. C'est la vie
 

Al Neri

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2002
5,680
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Originally posted by: Toasthead
The umpire would never say anything about him touching bases other than the base appealed to. The ruling would either be safe or out. Ive never heard of an umpire saying anything otherwise.

Which is what makes this umpire retarded.
 

OdiN

Banned
Mar 1, 2000
16,431
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Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
Originally posted by: Toasthead
The umpire would never say anything about him touching bases other than the base appealed to. The ruling would either be safe or out. Ive never heard of an umpire saying anything otherwise.

Which is what makes this umpire retarded.

It's a home run. The ball is no longer in play. Everyone is safe, everyone on base scores.
 

summit

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2001
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I umpire little league and I'd have to say that the second appeal would be invalid. You are given you chance to appeal, the umpire will rule, and thats all. What the umpire said after the appeal may be what he saw, but you are denied further appeal. He may have said that runner did not touch second as a notice to both teams.
 

Al Neri

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2002
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Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Have you checked the rule book in regard to appealing a play?

7.10
Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when --
(a) After a fly ball is caught, he fails to retouch his original base before he or his original base is tagged;
Rule 7.10(a) Comment: ?Retouch,? in this rule, means to tag up and start from a contact with the base after the ball is caught. A runner is not permitted to take a flying start from a position in back of his base.
(b) With the ball in play, while advancing or returning to a base, he fails to touch each base in order before he, or a missed base, is tagged.
APPROVED RULING: (1) No runner may return to touch a missed base after a following runner has scored. (2) When the ball is dead, no runner may return to touch a missed base or one he has left after he has advanced to and touched a base beyond the missed base.
Rule 7.10(b) Comment: PLAY. (a) Batter hits ball out of park or ground rule double and misses first base (ball is dead)?he may return to first base to correct his mistake before he touches second but if he touches second he may not return to first and if defensive team appeals he is declared out at first.
PLAY. (b) Batter hits ball to shortstop who throws wild into stand (ball is dead)?batter-runner misses first base but is awarded second base on the overthrow. Even though the umpire has awarded the runner second base on the overthrow, the runner must touch first base before he proceeds to second base. These are appeal plays.
(c) He overruns or overslides first base and fails to return to the base immediately, and he or the base is tagged;
(d) He fails to touch home base and makes no attempt to return to that base, and home base is tagged.
Any appeal under this rule must be made before the next pitch, or any play or attempted play. If the violation occurs during a play which ends a half-inning, the appeal must be made before the defensive team leaves the field.
An appeal is not to be interpreted as a play or an attempted play.
Successive appeals may not be made on a runner at the same base. If the defensive team on its first appeal errs, a request for a second appeal on the same runner at the same base shall not be allowed by the umpire. (Intended meaning of the word ?err? is that the defensive team in making an appeal threw the ball out of play. For example, if the pitcher threw to first base to appeal and threw the ball into the stands, no second appeal would be allowed.)

Appeal plays may require an umpire to recognize an apparent ?fourth out.? If the third out is made during a play in which an appeal play is sustained on another runner, the appeal play decision takes precedence in determining the out. If there is more than one appeal during a play that ends a half-inning, the defense may elect to take the out that gives it the advantage. For the purpose of this rule, the defensive team has ?left the field? when the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory on their way to the bench or clubhouse.
Rule 7.10 Comment: If two runners arrive at home base about the same time and the first runner misses home plate but a second runner legally touches the plate, the runner is tagged out on his attempt to come back and touch the base or is called out, on appeal, then he shall be considered as having been put out before the second runner scored and being the third out. Second runner?s run shall not count, as provided in Rule 7.12.
If a pitcher balks when making an appeal, such act shall be a play. An appeal should be clearly intended as an appeal, either by a verbal request by the player or an act that unmistakably indicates an appeal to the umpire. A player, inadvertently stepping on the base with a ball in his hand, would not constitute an appeal. Time is not out when an appeal is being made.


Nowhere does it say you cannot make successive appeals on successive bases. But, nowhere does it say that you can.
 

Toasthead

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2001
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i just checked the ASA rulebook...there is no limit on appeals that i can see
 

Uppsala9496

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 2001
5,272
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The ump never should have said anything.

Not sure about softball, but in baseball you can appeal to one base. You can't sit there and toss to third for an appeal, then when declared safe, toss to second, etc.
(NCAA rules - stopped playing in the early 90's).

There is bad officiating at all levels. I once had a sanctioned NCAA ump call a strike on a ball that was literally over my head. He said if it goes outside the black on his glasses it is a ball. If he can see it, it is a strike.
Needless to say I got tossed for arguing and the game went under protest. We might have set a NCAA record for the most ejections that game. It was UGLY.
 

fredhe12

Senior member
Apr 6, 2006
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No umpire worth his salt would ever do that.

As far as a second appeal, rule 7.10 (d) of the MLB rulebook states: Successive appeals may not be made on a runner at the same base. If the defensive team on its first appeal errs, a request for a second appeal on the same runner at the same base shall not be allowed by the umpire. (Intended meaning of the word ?err? is that the defensive team in making an appeal threw the ball out of play. For example, if the pitcher threw to first base to appeal and threw the ball into the stands, no second appeal would be allowed.)

It doesn't explicitly say anything about appealing on a runner at 'different' bases. A quick search of rulebook didn't turn anything specific to that situation. I've personally (years of baseball into college and beyond) have never seen this occur, but I guess there is no rule against the second appeal.
 

Cerebus451

Golden Member
Nov 30, 2000
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From this page, under the description for rule 7.10:
Successive appeals may not be made on a runner at the same base. If the defensive team on its first appeal errs, a request for a second appeal on the same runner at the same base shall not be allowed by the umpire. (Intended meaning of the word "err" is that the defensive team in making an appeal threw the ball out of play. For example, if the pitcher threw to first base to appeal and threw the ball into the stands, no second appeal would be allowed.)
Seems to indicate they can make the second appeal at another base.
 

Uppsala9496

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 2001
5,272
19
81
per the NCAA rulebook:

(3) The defensive team receives only one chance on an appeal. If the
team throws the ball out of play in attempting to make the appeal,
the appeal has ended.

Like I said, not sure about ASA since you can't find the rulebook online.
 

fredhe12

Senior member
Apr 6, 2006
613
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Originally posted by: Uppsala9496
per the NCAA rulebook:

(3) The defensive team receives only one chance on an appeal. If the
team throws the ball out of play in attempting to make the appeal,
the appeal has ended.

Like I said, not sure about ASA since you can't find the rulebook online.

Still, this implies that if they do not throw the ball out of play, i.e. it makes it back to the pitcher from the baseman covering the base just appealed, you are allowed to appeal at another base, which is what the OP was asking about. Neither MLB or NCAA explicitly prohibit such action, so I would say it's allowed.
 
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