So you are proving my point,they don't have the knowledge of the hardware and are forced to ask,well not forced but they are only doing what they want to do and tell PR that whoever wants something better come and code our game for yourselves because we sure as hell will not.
The OP that I responded to said games today, and not games tomorrow. I don't know of a single game today that is actually compute bound..
And compute is still compute. A game can still be compute bound whether the compute shaders are executed in serial or in parallel.
That said, I think it would be bad game design if a game was compute bound rather than graphics bound..
Really no,
NVIDIA has access to the game for more than a YEAR, if they havent provided OXIDE with more MAXWELL optimized code then it simple means OXIDE software is very efficient as it is, and its only the NVIDIA MAXWELL Hardware that cant be more optimized for DX-12 any more.
People at some time will have to realize that NVIDIA Maxwell is not optimized for DX-12 as GCN is, simple as that.
That said, I think it would be bad game design if a game was compute bound rather than graphics bound..
1) AMD takes incentive to talk up asynchronous capability, persuades sites to put out articles (like the anandtech article)
2) they partner with the same small developer that was used to to showcase Mantle.
3) rush out a pre beta benchmark, not to the public but to the press.
You would think that a developer working on a game they were proud of would really want to show it off to fans. But the whole point of this demo, in my opinion was to promote AMD.
They sent this alpha benchmark to the press, rushed out for what purpose? To talk up AMD, obviously.
When has this happened before?
AMD is their partner. They wanted to showcase AMD, not their game. It's not even impressive at all. Has anybody seen it. I have no idea how people aren't seeing this
Yes, i like the part about responsibility. And yet he is blaming nVidia instead of himself. :hmm:
Simple as what?Really no,
NVIDIA has access to the game for more than a YEAR, if they havent provided OXIDE with more MAXWELL optimized code then it simple means OXIDE software is very efficient as it is, and its only the NVIDIA MAXWELL Hardware that cant be more optimized for DX-12 any more.
People at some time will have to realize that NVIDIA Maxwell is not optimized for DX-12 as GCN is, simple as that.
Simple as what?
Did nvidia had access to windows 10 or to dx12?
No!They had access to dx11 and there they killed it,ashes runs twice as fast on nvidia then it does on amd.And it is a AMD title,figure that.
Oxide couldn't even code a fast shader for nvidia hardware,talking about experienced coders here, and you want us to believe that they managed to code async compute for them?
Seeing as Nvidia asked Oxide to disable async compute on their cards, one might (subjectively) think not even Nvidia can code it. Sarcasm aside, I fail to see how developers accepting optimized code from vendors is a sign of incompetence. Had they declined the offer would you deem them more worthy?Oxide couldn't even code a fast shader for nvidia hardware,talking about experienced coders here, and you want us to believe that they managed to code async compute for them?
Simple as what?
Did nvidia had access to windows 10 or to dx12?
No!They had access to dx11 and there they killed it,ashes runs twice as fast on nvidia then it does on amd.And it is a AMD title,figure that.
Oxide couldn't even code a fast shader for nvidia hardware,talking about experienced coders here, and you want us to believe that they managed to code async compute for them?
In terms of what AMD's current architecture lacks -I think gamers are learning an important lesson: there's no such thing as "full support" for DX12 on the market today.
There have been many attempts to distract people from this truth through campaigns that deliberately conflate feature levels, individual untiered features and the definition of "support." This has been confusing, and caused so much unnecessary heartache and rumor-mongering.
Here is the unvarnished truth: Every graphics architecture has unique features, and no one architecture has them all. Some of those unique features are more powerful than others.
Yes, we're extremely pleased that people are finally beginning to see the game of chess we've been playing with the interrelationship of GCN, Mantle, DX12, Vulkan and LiquidVR.
So let us accept or moment that both sides have these unique advantages and that Nvidia cannot support async shaders (although what is interesting in practice is that Intel might support all).Raster Ordered Views and Conservative Raster. Thankfully, the techniques that these enable (like global illumination) can already be done in other ways at high framerates (see: DiRT Showdown).
AMD had game codes for the pre-release version of the game. Not access to the source code as Oxide has stated here. So saying they also "had access" is disingenuous.AMD also had access to Project Cars for a year btw....
Anything at all to back that statement up? Referring back to Project CARS again I recall you being adamant that people backup this kind of statement with facts. Here's a quote from Oxide.And do you recall Oxide and Star Swarm? Sounds really familiar with this situation as well. Back then they crippled DX11 to try and sell Mantle.
Are these just lies or do you know more than the engine developers?Q. This is just a marketing tool for AMD; youve obviously crippled the DirectX version!
A. We really havent; to be perfectly honest weve spent more time optimizing for DirectX than we have on Mantle. The fact is that DirectX is conceived and implemented as a single-threaded API, and so a lot of the more significant gains we see thanks to the Nitrous engines aggressive multithreading are badly limited by API overhead when were using it.
We obviously cant prove this to the satisfaction of everyone on the Internet, but understand that our primary goal with Nitrous is to make the best engine we can so that we can open the door to the new kinds of games that we want to make (and play ourselves!). An awful lot of the gamers we hope to entertain dont and wont have access to Mantle-enabled hardware any time soon, so wed be making a huge mistake as entertainers and as businesspeople by not supporting or poorly supporting non-Mantle hardware.
Unless you're calling Oxide liars again then it seems they are working closely with Nvidia to optimise the game and inserting Nvidia specific code on request. Curious behavior for AMD's PR arm.Oxide is close to being nothing but a PR arm of AMD.
Raster Ordered Views and Conservative Raster. Thankfully, the techniques that these enable (like global illumination) can already be done in other ways at high framerates (see: DiRT Showdown).
I was responding to very concrete things.This is what I don't get with people like you,its like when Apple releases a iProduct with a problem,and instead of taking Apple to task they deflect and complain about Android or Google.
I was responding to very concrete things.
1.Oxide gave the source code to companies so if there where a way for nvidia to improve dx12 they would have.
-Sure ok they did give out the source code,how where the companies supposed to run this source code in an dx12 environment?
So bottom line nvidia only got to work on dx11 for more then a year.
2.Oxide are very capable of programming so there is nothing wrong with their dx12 code.
-Doesn't convince me if they can't even get a shader to run fast.
This game still needs a lot of work, if afterwards it still runs crappy on nvidia and dx12 then sure it's nvidia's fault and the product is bad.
Look at Star Swarm at release and now.
If we are to believe Oxide at launch, it would be impossible. not to mention the deferred context issue.
Yeah and a anti-NV studio who never bother to go and optimize a synthetic benchmark that's a one-off showcase.
Some of you forum warriors are insulting some of the greatest programmers around with years of experience in CREATING DirectX standard for the entire industry and game engines that push the tech boundaries, Civ 5, first for multi-thread rendering in the DX11 era, one of the first for DirectCompute shading etc.
If you don't want to believe it fine, wait and see. Don't drag good people into the mud with you. If you should be hating on crook devs, go hating on Warner Bros (Batman AK anyone?) or Ubifail.
Seriously SIGGRAPH 2015 was recent, imagine Dan Baker and Tim Foley in that same conference room educating people about next-gen APIs... and here a bunch of forum warriors are attacking their credibility on the very topic of which they were called to represent as the best in their fields.
I recall a similar attack against DICE's Johan Anderson, for being an AMD PR or shill back during the Mantle announcement. Guess what? All the Frosbite games ran excellent on NV hardware, even better than on AMD. Proof right there of a high standard of ethics.
Attacking respectable messengers when they deliver a message you dislike hearing is shameless.
NVIDIA DID gave them MAXWELL OPTIMIZED code they integrated in to the engine, AotS is not GCN optimized only. Now if Async Compute is working better with GCN, It is not the software fault that NVIDIA Maxwell doesnt work as good as AMD GCN but the Hardware, simple as that.
Directly from OXIDE and Dan Baker.
http://www.oxidegames.com/2015/08/16/the-birth-of-a-new-api/
They are insulting themselves by releasing an alpha benchmark of dx12 where dx12 is actually slower then dx11.Some of you forum warriors are insulting some of the greatest programmers around with years of experience in CREATING DirectX standard for the entire industry and game engines that push the tech boundaries, Civ 5, first for multi-thread rendering in the DX11 era, one of the first for DirectCompute shading etc.