That doesn't really answer my question. God had a choice when created human nature. He could have created us to be selfless and empathetic. In general that is not the case.
He chose to create us to choose for ourselves.
He had to choose between free will or dictatorship. Dictatorship=we'll all be good loving puppets. Free will=we'll all be free to be cruel or kind.
In the end, I think He chose that He wanted those who truly sought him to be able to find him.
Either that or he DID create us with a sinless nature. Hint: "Just as sin entered the world through one man..."
Gotta run to work and then travel.
Not going to engage in debate with you too long since we are both long established frenemies on this topic and you know my Facebook name. But to answer this round:
- I personally don't think the firsthand witness dedication to their belief system would have lasted even a week after his crucifixion if all they had to go on was an empty grave. Immediately upon his death they were at risk of being considered religious apostates or political rebels and could have been arrested by either set of authorities. Not sure an empty grave in a politically and religiously charged situation would have been enough to draw them into speaking out like they did.
- Evidence for the truth of Biblical content cannot be proven by secondary sources, indeed. However, the literary veracity of the text from a purely historical standpoint, in the same way we would validate the Iliad and the Odyssey for instance, is of much higher quality than other historical documents.
Not claiming this is an unbiased source but I think the data on the site is pretty well corraborated.[SIZE=-1]
That says nothing whatsoever about the content of the document being fact or fiction, but the literary quality of the doc combined with the verifiable historical growth of the Jewish offshoot sect that became Christianity as driven by firsthand witnesses is compelling enough for me. Like I said originally, people are not usually willing to give up everything, be arrested and killed for something they know or suspect to be a lie.
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If only she had answered mine :'(
But at least she tries unlike the lame OP.
If Jesus died for our sins shouldnt we just live it up and not worry about sinning? I mean talk about the ultimate sacrafice and then people "try" not to do what you sacraficed yourself for. What a slap in the face.
If God did create us with a sinless nature than I guess Adam and Eve wouldn't have given into temptation in the first place. Sin entered through one man, whose nature is the same as ever person after him.
Romans 5
1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.
6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned— 13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.
15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[d] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
19 I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. 20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned— 13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.
Maybe I am not wording my question correctly, but you really aren't getting what I'm saying. I'm not saying God should control us, or be a puppet master. There would be good and evil in the world regardless of our nature, but human nature is heavily biased towards the evil/selfish nature.
Also known as, "the burden of proof is sufficient for me but I know it isn't sufficient for many other people so I'm not being a Bible thumper about it." If I push hard for my beliefs, I'm a crackpot and if I willingly admit the that while I feel there is strong evidence there is a variance between that and provable fact (hence why we're having a discussion about faith and not fact) then I'm a loon. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
I haven't insulted anyone for their inclination against belief, and yet you want to pigeonhole me for my inclination for belief. Who's pushing who here?
Sorry, I didn't mean that with any heat. I think I was reading a bit more animosity into your final sentence than you meant it (I was reading "but I want to believe it's true?" as sarcastic), since AT can sometimes be a hostile place in religion discussions. My apologies.Thank you for your reply, The first paragraph makes sense and I respect you for it but am surprised and confused on the insult and pigeonhole part. I haven't insulted or pigeonholed anyone, it was a question and it wasn't a smart assed one like many in this thread. Did I push you to answer my question? Did I do any pushing at all?
Uhh... guys, you're forgetting the the Bible was written by people. It's the message of God, but it was ultimately written by people. Yes: imperfect beings wrote the Bible.
Inspired by the Holy Spirit. People were just God's secretary writing down the message.
You know full well the deaths of those primary witnesses are not documented in the Bible. That data on the deaths and final testimonies from all the martyred firsthand witnesses is entirely from extra-Biblical sources.
The other argument you make neither of us can back up with anything substantial enough to sway the other's mind, so it's kind of a dead end.
Inspired by the Holy Spirit. People were just God's secretary writing down the message.
Can Jesus microwave a burrito so long that he can't eat it?
oh, since your back I asked you earlier, "Will Fred Phelps go to Heaven?" This is my most pressing question that I need a real Christian to answer for me.
How can you start believing in something with no basis in reality?
Then I disagree with the assertion underlying your question. We are self-interested no question, but I hesitate to call that evil.
The more I think about it the more I think I had the right idea in my first response. God didn't create us evil or self-interested. We chose that route. Your question then is why did God allow that, to which I would respond that it's either that or be a puppet master.
That make sense?
Why would God give us free will but then set his expectations upon us? And why punish us for doing as our free will allows? Ive always view this as "Free will with consequences", which to me is not true free will.
Meanwhile good people suffering through horrible lives crying out to god every night in their prayers continue to live a shitty life, seemingly ignored by this great and powerful being who helps pro athletes score points, helps music stars sell those few extra albums to achieve platinum, blah blah blah.