Asrock 4CoreDual-SATA2 + ASRock 4CoreDual-VSTA + ASRock 775Dual-VSTA

[Deleauvive]

SATA cable is included with HDD. ST1000DM003 will cost me 60£.

It must be a boxed version then. I am saying this because it seems a bit expensive compared to the 60 something euros my online reseller asks for it, or for its WD equivalent.

you know how it works

Well, I've heard the Seagate is not among the quietest drives, to each his own. Reading reviews is the more reliable source of information compared with gossip, as far as I am concerned. WD drives, whether from the Black (fastest ones, except for the Velociraptor's), Green (storage oriented), or Blue (in between) series are all entreprise grade products. Same two-year warranty period anyway.
I own SATA drives from both brands btw (not even including my 4CoreDual SATA II based computer) :

Device Description
WDC WD10EZEX-00RKKA0 (WD-WMC1S0931532) -> Blue Caviar 1 TO, a LIVE illustration of a SATA III device running on a SATA II equipped mobo, the MSI P45 Neo3 v1.1 (MS-7514)
WDC WD3000HLFS-01G6U0 (WD-WXL908093554) -> the famous Dromaeosaurid Theropod mechanical beast
ST3300831AS (3NF0CVB8) -> Barracuda 7200.8
ST3300831AS (3NF0CXRR)-> Barracuda 7200.8 (both in RAID 0)

no HDD can use 100% of SATA II bandwith. SSD can't either.

Still, those SATA III capable drives will run faster on SATA III equipped mobos.
(I might be old fashioned, but I think I'll simply skip this generation of SSD's).

 

[ashofthephoenix]

It all depends where you live. Here, in Poland, ST1000DM003 may be the best choice when you want a cheap and quite fast HDD.
WD drives are more expensive, most of them cost more than 70£.

I don't think that reviews have to do anything with how long the drive can live or something like that.
I mean, they can tell you how big, quiet, fast it is, but they can't tell if it's stable or not.
That's why we need feedback. Unless you don't care if your HDD won't boot up someday.

 

[Deleauvive]

I am a bit confused here : Since when the British Pound is Poland's official currency ? Or are you mistakenly using the £ symbol instead of the € (euro) one ? In France, we have an additional tax which can count for an important share of the price on such hard drives, I still don't get why you would pay that much, be it in Poland or in other parts of Europe. The SATA cable alone should cost about 4 euros.

Also, what factor or value do you consider to be worth the "stable" adjective exactly ? Stable throughput, stable electronic condition, stable performance through time ? Except in complex RAID arrays, it's rather unusual that a modern drive will suddenly stop functioning. SMART monitoring is supposed to visually illustrate how various external (cable, heat...) or internal (head positioning precision, overwrought platters....) factors will slowly degrade the drive condition.

Drives are rated against a set number of hours, AFAIK. I agree reviewers cannot artificially recreate the slow decay of the drives' performance over time. This said, if you hear your drive clicking or scratching during I/O operations (there's a whole range of drive sounds which could indicate a slow drive or the premises of a malfunction, I took the most irritating ones on purpose), from the very start, chances are its lifespan will be reduced compared with the ones which are able to maintain "smoother" functioning. That's called common sense, and some renowned hardware sites use it, in addition to the various measurements you evoked.

WD drives are for the most part reliable but
a. they cannot be 100% factory defect free
and
b. it's hard to make an assumption such as "they're more reliable than the Seagate's"
They're more reliable than the Maxtor's probably (before the latter manufacturer were phased out of the market). The fact that they offer a five year warranty period along with their RE series of products should ensure an extended period of hassle free functioning, if that's the kind of "stability" you're looking for (at a premium though, these drives are more or less 50% overpriced).


Needless to say, I am not affiliated, nor do I have any financial interest in getting people buy products from any of these brands.

 

[ashofthephoenix]

Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean British pound

Seagate Barracuda ST1000DM003 costs 75$ on newegg.com, and converting to Euro, it's 57€.

This HDD is available to buy on our action websites for 248 PLN (if you don't pay for the delivery) which is 57€. They include SATA cable for free, you can find other more expensive offers not including a SATA cable anyway.

You can buy a SATA cable for 3 PLN - 0,72€ converting it to Euro

All those clicks or any noises made by HDD can warn you and give you some time to move data somewhere place safe, instead of instant dying. It's less possible, but still can happen. There was a similar problem with Seagate 7200.11 series. But there were no warnings about a possible death of HDD (I didn't have any experience with these drives, just saying what people were so pissed about).

Saying stable, I meant only time related factors. An HDD should survive a really long time, without any environment influence.

I think that you can't tell a difference between WD and Seagate. Of course, their hdd specifications and features may differ. It's superficial but true.

 

[Sparkion]

Hey peeps:

Still can't get the 2x2gb dimms to work.

I off course did reset the cmos after updating it to the PC treiber bios version.

(enabling agp fastwrites on/off and all that, doesn't have any impact of course if the PC boots with 4 gb of ram.

Besides the 'skew buffer thingy' do I have quite a lot of years with experience with biosses, editing, overclocking tuning etc. So of course I did try all the standard things to do first.
Also when I set the timings manually (which are the most common default timings for most of the DDR2-800 Mhz Ram.

So people:

How did you guys got this 4 GB (I know 3,3) to work on these boards. I read somewhere in teh forum here that some of you guys indeed managed to do that.

Would be great if you share how.

I got a VSTA ánd a SATA II board btw.
Both have the bios from pctreiber.
Funny thing... the VSTA boots with 4 GB.
The sata II doesn't

 

[tcsenter]

So it can't work on Sata II normally? It runs SATA 3.0 GBps according to official site information.

Sorry, I forgot that we were talking about the SATA2 model with the improved VT8237S that solved the SATA detection problem of earlier VT8237 chips.

 

[Deleauvive]

An HDD should survive a really long time, without any environment influence.

The environment does have an influence on a drive lifespan : Heat coming from the surrounding devices, dust, air flow and the room left around and especially above the drive in its steel cradle.

I think that you can't tell a difference between WD and Seagate. Of course, their hdd specifications and features may differ. It's superficial but true.

Well, I don't quite agree (about the differences being merely superficial) but you made your points and I made mine. The specs are close, but the difference in features matter somehow. My assumption is that the WD drive from the blue series will run a little cooler and quieter, and that the Seagate one will be a little faster.

Also when I set the timings manually (which are the most common default timings for most of the DDR2-800 Mhz Ram.

The default timings for DDR-800 running @266 MHz (3-3-3-8; 1T CR, if that's what you have in mind) might be a tad aggressive. Even my OCZ Reaper's aren't certified for these timings (AIDA64 mentions 3-4-4-10).

Still can't get the 2x2gb dimms to work.

From my experience with my OCZ PC-8500 DDR2 modules, and reading about yours with the ADATA ones, I think these boards would require another BIOS update for increased DRAM compatibility. See, DRAM manufacturers cannot rely on good ol' Hynix or Micron chips infinitely. Using Media Code Speed Edit, I know unofficial ROM patches can be applied to aging DVD+-RW drives to take into account newer incompatible blank media. I don't know if a mobo BIOS can be further hacked in a similar fashion, but that would definitely be a bonus if someone speaking German could take the case to PCtreiber's forum.

You can always try forcing the 4 GB recognition with trial and error techniques, but ultimately swapping your ADATA kit for more standard PC2-5300 2x2 GB modules or running your system on 2x1 GB memory (which ain't too shabby for this class of mobo and CPU, if you ask me) might be your best bet.

Key apparently I had to set it to RAID mode, even though I'm only using 1 HDD.

That's a bit unusual one would ever need to do this. What type of power supply do you use ? Can you tell us how many amperes it delivers on the 12V rail ?

 

[Sparkion]

The default timings for DDR-800 running @266 MHz (3-3-3-8; 1T CR, if that's what you have in mind) might be a tad aggressive. Even my OCZ Reaper's aren't certified for these timings (AIDA64 mentions 3-4-4-10).


From my experience with my OCZ PC-8500 DDR2 modules, and reading about yours with the ADATA ones, I think these boards would require another BIOS update for increased DRAM compatibility. See, DRAM manufacturers cannot rely on good ol' Hynix or Micron chips infinitely. Using Media Code Speed Edit, I know unofficial ROM patches can be applied to aging DVD+-RW drives to take into account newer incompatible blank media. I don't know if a mobo BIOS can be further hacked in a similar fashion, but that would definitely be a bonus if someone speaking German could take the case to PCtreiber's forum.

You can always try forcing the 4 GB recognition with trial and error techniques, but ultimately swapping your ADATA kit for more standard PC2-5300 2x2 GB modules or running your system on 2x1 GB memory (which ain't too shabby for this class of mobo and CPU, if you ask me) might be your best bet.

OK to answer your suggestions:

• No I use much loser timings, so that assumption is not correct. I actually use auto, and when that didnt work I used the 800MHZ speed timings (5-5-5-18) on 266Mhz, just to be on the safe side.
• My DDR2 kit is quite generic.. it works especially since:
• They dó boot on the 4coredual VSTA, as I wrote before, but NOT on the 4coredual SATA II, while...
• Both boards have the most recent BIOS update from PC treiber for these specific boards
• My power supply is quite sufficïent, so...
• the most common suggestions I of course tried already:

1. use same bios settings on both boards. result: booting on the VSTA, not on the Sata II wiht the same memory
2. using the boards with the same other hardware, power supply etc.

As I said, the AData kit is compatible with this board.
So for me it is a riddle why It works on the right biosses that were also specifically modified for enabling the 4 GB (3.25 usable in Windows). On the VSTA it does boot and works stable in Windows.
On the SATA II no boot with the same 4 GB.

(ok saying the same things in 3 different ways is plenty enough I'd think)

 

[Deleauvive]

Well, you seem to be willing to take into account my suggestions, which I am grateful for, but I think you could go a step further in addressing them.

Some power supplies receive a nice 460W sticker but aren't up the challenge when it comes to delivering a steady 12V current on the 12V rail. That's why I asked you how many amperes yours delivers on the 12V. It's not the same question as : "Do you think the 400 or 500 Watts your power supply was sold for will be enough for your system ?" This value should be written on the PSU's side sticker, should you be interested in finding out about it.

5-5-5-18 doesn't fit 266 or even 300 MHz memory operations, not even with the crappiest mobo's. I assumed you would set too tight timings, you didn't but you did set them too loose (both CAS and tRAS could be lowered by 1 at least). And let me insist : Except with the compatibility option on, I believe Auto is a wrong choice when using DDR2 with the VIA chipset, be it value Corsair modules or performance ones. Each and every timing from the chipset page should be set to a predetermined value, the "primary" timings as well as the "secondary" ones.

A (small, but still) proof of that is that I get better benchmark results with CLKBUF's Skew set at 300/450 than with Auto.

My DDR2 kit is quite generic.. it works

...Except when it won't work!
That's exactly what happens with the SATA II, at least it's safe to say it won't work properly with this motherboard.
There are those who believe it has to do with the Northbridge chipset being Ultra instead of Pro (or the other way round) on the SATA II, and there is me thinking something might have gone wrong with the 4 GB expansion feature implementation that came with the latest BIOS update PCtreiber is responsible for.

I agree it's puzzling, especially since the SATA II was issued about a year after the VSTA; But remember, I had a similar issue with my 2x2 GB of OCZ Reaper. Chances are my kit would work just fine with the VSTA.

So, can someone speaking German PM me, may be the PCtreiber team can work on a "b" revision for the latest SATA II unofficial BIOS which would ensure better DDR 800 compatibility. Or at least, tell us why the VSTA seems to handle better those "picky" DDR2 kits, as you call them.

As I said, the AData kit is compatible with this board.

positive thinking, heh ?

 

[Sparkion]

Well, you seem to be willing to take into account my suggestions, which I am grateful for, but I think you could go a step further in addressing them.

Some power supplies receive a nice 460W sticker but aren't up the challenge when it comes to delivering a steady 12V current on the 12V rail. That's why I asked you how many amperes yours delivers on the 12V. It's not the same question as : "Do you think the 400 or 500 Watts your power supply was sold for will be enough for your system ?" This value should be written on the PSU's side sticker, should you be interested in finding out about it.

5-5-5-18 doesn't fit 266 or even 300 MHz memory operations, not even with the crappiest mobo's. I assumed you would set too tight timings, you didn't but you did set them too loose (both CAS and tRAS could be lowered by 1 at least). And let me insist : Except with the compatibility option on, I believe Auto is a wrong choice when using DDR2 with the VIA chipset, be it value Corsair modules or performance ones. Each and every timing from the chipset page should be set to a predetermined value, the "primary" timings as well as the "secondary" ones.

A (small, but still) proof of that is that I get better benchmark results with CLKBUF's Skew set at 300/450 than with Auto.


...Except when it won't work!
That's exactly what happens with the SATA II, at least it's safe to say it won't work properly with this motherboard.
There are those who believe it has to do with the Northbridge chipset being Ultra instead of Pro (or the other way round) on the SATA II, and there is me thinking something might have gone wrong with the 4 GB expansion feature implementation that came with the latest BIOS update PCtreiber is responsible for.

I agree it's puzzling, especially since the SATA II was issued about a year after the VSTA; But remember, I had a similar issue with my 2x2 GB of OCZ Reaper. Chances are my kit would work just fine with the VSTA.

So, can someone speaking German PM me, may be the PCtreiber team can work on a "b" revision for the latest SATA II unofficial BIOS which would ensure better DDR 800 compatibility. Or at least, tell us why the VSTA seems to handle better those "picky" DDR2 kits, as you call them.


positive thinking, heh ?

BTW I got a zalman 520 Watt in that Rig and I also tried the 650 Nexus PSU of my Main Rig, both wiht the same results. (don't have a multimeter but I'm pretty sure it delivers enough Amps to teh 12 V rail, the ACTUAL PSU is a modulair 700 W, top brand, forgot which. Adn just closed the Case!

And to be on the safe side I did try the power supply of the RIg where my VSTA board is built in and which appearantly does boot with 4 GB.

No go with the SATA II

However.. I will try the timings suggestions of yours!

Ah I'm dutch but I also dó speak German. So you think it might als be the bios, maybe?

I speak and type German. As a matter of fact, yesterday I typed an email in 'deutch' to a German company.

Why you got any specific suggestions to emial the dudes of PCTreiber?

 

[Deleauvive]

Don't get me wrong
a. the power supply suggestion was related to the fact that you had to set SATA Operation Mode to RAID (still a case of unsolved mystery)
b. My suggestion about the timings will ensure faster memory operations without compromising stability, or at least it should help you achieve this
None of the above can bring the SATA II to work properly with the 4 GB, except incidentally.


On to the PCtreiber bit

• the subforum in which you're supposed to post about BIOS problems with VIA based motherboards is the following :
  http://forum.pctreiber.net/forums/59-Sonstige-ASRock-Produkte
  
  
• Could you please try to phrase the following in German ?

Concerns the Asrock 4CoreDual SATA II 2.20a BIOS update
More specifically, the ability to run 2 x 2 GB of DDR2 sticks.

There is still an active thread about the Asrock motherboards bearing the VT880 Pro / Ultra chipset (post a link to this thread at this point).
Me and a few fans of the SATA II from Asrock have noticed our 2x2 GB DDR2 modules won't run properly with it, despite our best efforts.

On my buddy Deleauvive's SATA II board, with his 2x2 GB 1.80V rated OCZ Reaper's PC2-8500 kit seated (type : OCZ2RPR10662G), the computer will boot, but the additional 2 GB (or rather 1.25) aren't usable. The BIOS shows 4 GB in the BIOS though.

On mine, I tried to boot with a PC2-6400 2x2 GB ADATA kit (type : ...) with no success.
(feel free to describe your issue further)

We both made sure the CMOS was cleared and the motherboard entirely discharged before plugging them in.

At first, we thought it might come from the memory modules being incompatible due to their speed or too recent chips, but strangely enough my 4CoreDual VSTA will run the ADATA kit without a hitch.

I have two questions :
First, can it be argued that, despite being older, the VSTA received a better / more complete implementation of the 4 GB memory expandability feature you programmed on both boards ?
Secondly, if the answer to the above is positive, could you consider programming an update to the 2.20a BIOS, which would allow us to use a greater variety of PC2-6400 and / or PC2-8500 2x2 GB kits with the SATA II ?

Thanks for your hard work and dedication.


(They probably won't care much after all this time, but their replies might help us understand better why the SATA II and the VSTA behave differently when it comes to 2GB DDR2 sticks compatibility)

 

[Hlafordlaes]

I'm in a rush, but I'd look at all the things adjusted in the past in the BIOS and ensure I am also requesting any improvement or update of these, such as vid card compatibility. IOW take full advantage of the last chance for fixes.

 

[ashofthephoenix]

http://imgur.com/VoH0P6K

Can anyone tell me what's wrong?

It says its on UDMA Mode 6, i had similar slowdowns on SP1203N, and it just becomes more annoying..

 

[Deleauvive]

Can anyone tell me what's wrong?

How are we supposed to know ?

Please, tell us first your OS version, whether you installed the chipset drivers (VIA 4 in 1) from Asrock web site or not (or from elsewhere), how many hard disk drives you have in that computer, your power supply wattage, if you tried with another SATA cable...

Do you run the latest BIOS revision, do you overclock ?
Also, tell us your V-Link and PCI Delay Transaction, IDE Drive Strength settings from the BIOS / Chipset Configuration page (F2 at boot up to enter the BIOS) if this is still unresolved.

 

[ashofthephoenix]

Windows 7, VIA Hyperion 5.17a, only 1TB HDD installed, 500W power supply, I didn't try with another SATA cable, and this one is brand new.
My BIOS is the latest, and only my GPU is overclocked, but i don't think that's the problem.
Every setting set in Chipset Configuration page is default.

 

[Deleauvive]

Latest official or PCtreiber's BIOS revision ?
32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) Windows 7 ?

I would start by removing the Hyperion drivers, since as stated on Asrock's web site corresponding page Windows 7 doesn't require them.

Then, I would temporarily disable the GPU overclocking and give a try to plugging it in the other SATA socket just to be of the safe side. If you use a PCI-E graphic card, PCIE Downstream Pipeline and PCIE VC1 Request Queue BIOS features from the Chipset page should be set to disabled.

Still in the BIOS, if most of the settings are the defaults ones as you imply, chances PCI Latency Timer (from PCIPnP Configuration) is set to 32, switch it to 64 plz.

Last, can you tell us what IDE Configuration / SATA1 shows (a picture would sum it up pretty well) Device, Vendor, Size and so on until 32bit Data Transfer at the bottom.

 

[ashofthephoenix]

PCtreiber's BIOS revision.
Windows 7 64 bit.
I ran this benchmark before installing the Hyperion drivers, nothing has changed still

I disabled those PCI-E settings.

IDE Configuration, you mean the settings where you can set the DMA Mode etc.? They are all set on default, and 32bit data transfer is disabled.

 

[Deleauvive]

IDE Configuration, you mean the settings where you can set the DMA Mode etc.?

Yes, I mean those. Can you take a picture of this page, upload it to imageshack.us and link it here, please ?
Maybe the SATA cable is defective, 0,72 € seems a bit cheap for a quality cable.

What do you have in device manager, under IDE ATA/ATAPI ?
On my system (Windows Vista), I have :
VIA Serial ATA Controller - 5372, drivers are videX32.sys and xfilt.sys

Do you have the cache activated (first option ticked) under Disk Drives, when you query the properties of you Seagate HDD ?

As a last resort, I would make a full backup of my system (PM me if you need to know how), format, make a minimal install of the 32-bit version of Windows 7 (the system + drivers, excluding Hyperion), then run that benchmark again (in case something went wrong during Windows setup).

 

[ashofthephoenix]

Mine drivers under VIA Serial ATA Controller - 5372 are:
ViBusX64.sys
ViPrtX64.sys
vIdeInstX64.dll

Cache writing is enabled

 

[Deleauvive]

OK, I've got mine with :
PIO Mode set at 4
DMA Mode set at UDMA6
S.M.A.R.T. Enabled (this is recommended)
32bit Data Transfer Enabled (enhanced data transfer mechanism)

Please, set yours accordingly, proceed to reinstall (32-bit OS preferably), and tell us how it went.

 

[ashofthephoenix]

I can't reinstall my OS ATM.
I know what S.M.A.R.T. does, but I don't think that it will improve the transfer rate. It's more safe to enable it, I know, but I just don't need it.
Isn't 32 bit data transfer already enabled in SATA? I guess it doesn't require this.. I'll give it a try anyway.

If that's all the possible solutions, thanks for your help.

 

[Deleauvive]

I know what S.M.A.R.T. does, but I don't think that it will improve the transfer rate.

I didn't say it would.
Well, the SMART status is not 100% accurate but it does provides some useful indications. You can always enable it, check the status with Speedfan or any other software, and disable it when you're done.

Isn't 32 bit data transfer already enabled in SATA?

Good news if that's the case. Didn't know about that.

If you experience the same slowdowns with the Samsung, that would imply it comes either from the software / BIOS settings, or a defective south bridge from the Asrock. My aim was to phase out software from the possible causes considering this issue you described. I don't pretend I could be actually solving it from long distance, just help you finding about the possible cause, if you're willing to take it logically (and composedly I may add).

I can't reinstall my OS ATM.

I for one wouldn't use a computer with possibly failing parts for "production purposes". You mean it's not an option from your point of view, or you plan to try this later on ?

 

[Deleauvive]

Here's mine with my WD Caviar Green 640 GB HDD on the second SATA socket, for what it's worth :





It serves as a secondary HDD (storage), and runs @ 5400 rpm, which explains the low temp.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I own this board. If it had only supported Conroe, I would have been a happy man. The Pentium 4 631 is finally showing its age :/

And you can't use any modern pci express graphics card with it. Stuck with AGP

 

[ashofthephoenix]

That's what happens when I run the benchmark and go AFK. This drop to 8mb/s was probably caused by something in the background, but shouldn't the transfer be steady even if I do something on my PC? I was downloading stuff on uTorrent everytime I ran the benchmark.
Every benchmark shows the same, but a few times it showed 30-90 mb/s minimal transfer rate.
Still, burst rate should be at least 230mb/s, and cpu usage below 8% (I compared it with other benchmark results of the same HDD)

Also, the PSU can be a problem. Sometimes I experience a 0.5s freeze. Even the cooling stopped working few months after I bought the PSU. (this was 3 years ago)
Last time I checked it was underperforming on 12V+ rail.


Anyway, whenever I launch Firefox, the transfer rate drops to 5mb/s or lower. Should I run a benchmark using Linux or what?