Assange has been arrested

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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
Somewhere in all this Assange's defenders overlook the idea that he may have crossed the line when he tried to help Manning crack passwords of US govt systems. That's the accusation in a nutshell. None of the rest of it is alleged to be criminal.

If that is all he is prosecuted for then that's fine, so long as the evidence is there. I'm just not so sure because there is a grey area here. On the one hand, if he offered to assist in breaking a password, that's an easy case. It's a criminal conspiracy. On the other, if all he did was publish classified docs, that's also an easy case. It's Constitutionally protected activity and there is no crime. The grey area is what I'm seeing referred to in several of the articles, that Assange allegedly "encouraged" Manning to do the hacking. At one point, apparently Manning says she can't find any more than she already has, and Assange allegedly encourages her to keep trying. Under the law of accessory liability (this is being an "accessory" rather than a co-conspirator), you can be guilty for assisting or "encouraging" criminal behavior. I know that this is not yet a formal charge, but are they going to use this "encouragement" as evidence against him? The tone of the articles suggest they might.

Applying that to a journalist communicating with a source is highly problematic. I'm sure journalists frequently "encourage" their sources to access information. It would set a much broader precedent than a conviction just for offering to help crack a password, which is fact specific to this particular case.

I don't want journalistic expression chilled by fear of prosecution, and I'm afraid that while this may not cross the line into an unconstitutional prosecution, by precedent it may bring us closer to it.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,704
507
126
If that is all he is prosecuted for then that's fine, so long as the evidence is there. I'm just not so sure because there is a grey area here. On the one hand, if he offered to assist in breaking a password, that's an easy case. It's a criminal conspiracy. On the other, if all he did was publish classified docs, that's also an easy case. It's Constitutionally protected activity and there is no crime.

Apparently Wikileaks may have already recieved a few hundred documents before Assange allegedly helped Chelsea Manning gain higher level access to the computer network.
If that is the case then the question of the charges against Assange is even more murky.

ACLU Statement on the arrest of Assange:

https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-comment-julian-assange-arrest

It's short:

"Any prosecution by the United States of Mr. Assange for Wikileaks’ publishing operations would be unprecedented and unconstitutional, and would open the door to criminal investigations of other news organizations. Moreover, prosecuting a foreign publisher for violating U.S. secrecy laws would set an especially dangerous precedent for U.S. journalists, who routinely violate foreign secrecy laws to deliver information vital to the public's interest."

<sarcasm> In other News the ACLU is now officially a Russia Puppet. </sarcasm>


_____________
 
Reactions: Blackjack200

dud

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,635
73
91
So if you lived in Amsterdam in the early '40s you would have given up the Jews in your attic to Nazis looking for them if they were spreading shit on the wall?


This has GOT to be the worst analogy ever. What were you drinking when you posted it?
 

dud

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,635
73
91
A VERY interesting article at Gizmodo tying Assange and Bradley Manning together:


https://gizmodo.com/assange-charges-finally-reveal-why-chelsea-manning-is-s-1833972958


"Charges announced by the Justice Department on Thursday against WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange provide fresh insight into why federal prosecutors sought to question whistleblower Chelsea Manning last month before a federal grand jury in the Eastern District of Virginia.

Manning, convicted in 2013 of leaking classified U.S. government documents to WikiLeaks, was jailed in early March as a recalcitrant witness after refusing to answer the grand jury’s questions. After her arrest, she was held in solitary confinement in a Virginia jail for nearly a month before being moved into its general population—all in an attempt to coerce her into answering questions about conversations she allegedly had with Assange at the time of her illegal disclosures, according to court filings.

Though Manning confessed to leaking more than 725,000 classified documents to WikiLeaks following her deployment to Iraq in 2009—including battlefield reports and five Guantanamo Bay detainee profiles—she was charged with leaking portions of only a couple hundred documents, including dozens of diplomatic cables that have since been declassified.

British authorities on Thursday removed Assange from the Ecuadorian embassy in London, his home for nearly seven years, following Ecuador’s decision to rescind his asylum. The U.S. government has requested that he be extradited to the United States to face a federal charge of conspiracy to commit computer crimes.

Until Thursday, the reasons were fuzzy as to why Manning had been called to testify at all. Prosecutors had privately hinted to her attorneys that they believed the former U.S. Army intelligence analyst had provided conflicting statements about her communications with the anti-secrecy organization. But as of late March, supporters working closely with her legal team said that no such accusation had been raised in court."

The article continues for many pages ...
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Apparently Wikileaks may have already recieved a few hundred documents before Assange allegedly helped Chelsea Manning gain higher level access to the computer network.
If that is the case then the question of the charges against Assange is even more murky.



<sarcasm> In other News the ACLU is now officially a Russia Puppet. </sarcasm>


_____________

So what? It doesn't matter what happened before Assange allegedly conspired with Manning to crack passwords of US govt systems nor is there evidence that they were successful. The alleged crime is that conspiracy, not the receiving of materials obtained from Manning. It's the sole count of the indictment.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
This has GOT to be the worst analogy ever. What were you drinking when you posted it?

Oh yes, let me take seriously the opinion of someone that deliberately misgenders a trans woman in the very next post.

Fuck off.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
Oh yes, let me take seriously the opinion of someone that deliberately misgenders a trans woman in the very next post.

Fuck off.

Which has nothing to do with the merit of your analogy. Defending your analogy would be the way to address his point. I haven't misgendered Manning once, but I too argued it was a bad analogy on the previous page, yet there is no reply. So if you can't find a way to attack the arguer, you ignore the argument, but if you can find a way, you attack the arguer. Absent in both cases is any sound rationale for why we should consider Assange equivalent to Anne Frank (he's not so innocent) or why Scotland Yard is equivalent to the SS (Assange will not be killed).
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,131
30,082
146
Yeah, I mean that would be a great analogy if you added the fact that your weirdo cousin was in the crosshairs of powerful carcereal state for exposing war crimes.

Well, I'm sure such belief is also one of the delusions of the same crazy cousin, so it's apt.

At some point, you're going to have to recognize that Assange is not Wikileaks, and when you have all of those that helped to found Wikileaks, and work with Assange, abandon him because none of them trust or respect his methods, you might realize that you are genuflecting at the wrong pillar.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,131
30,082
146
Ahh, probably a simple oversight by the ACLU and the Freedom of the Press Foundation.

ACLU is default-defending the notion of the freedom of press, which is fine and wonderful. That isn't what will come to pass with Assange, and you probably know that, and they will realize that if they spend any amount of time working with the guy and doing their own diligence.

Perhaps if you could appreciate that, with many of us, there is a real separation between the noble need for transparency and the fact that Assange, a single individual, is no kind of arbiter of good faith, and certainly not any kind of journalist that represents the press. If you confuse the criticism with Assange as the same as the idea behind Wikileaks, then you don't understand the issue.
 
Reactions: darkswordsman17

CaptainGoodnight

Golden Member
Oct 13, 2000
1,427
30
91
Assange isn't a reporter. Assange isn't a journalist. Assange is a Kremlin asset, has hosted a tv show on the Russian RT network, and his organization targets almost exclusively western democracies. Genuine journalists should not plant their flag on this hill.
 

dud

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,635
73
91
Oh yes, let me take seriously the opinion of someone that deliberately misgenders a trans woman in the very next post.

Fuck off.


Dude, I've reported you because I have NO IDEA what you are talking about. I forsee a mental health assessment in your future. You REALLY need some help.

Get it ... FAST!
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
Well, I'm sure such belief is also one of the delusions of the same crazy cousin, so it's apt.

At some point, you're going to have to recognize that Assange is not Wikileaks, and when you have all of those that helped to found Wikileaks, and work with Assange, abandon him because none of them trust or respect his methods, you might realize that you are genuflecting at the wrong pillar.

He was so deluded to think that he was he was an authoritative government would try to extradite him? That's literally what's happening, what on earth are you talking about?

It doesn't matter if he's not a virtuous individual, this is a disastrous moment for journalism.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
ACLU is default-defending the notion of the freedom of press, which is fine and wonderful. That isn't what will come to pass with Assange, and you probably know that, and they will realize that if they spend any amount of time working with the guy and doing their own diligence.

Oh man, I hope they realize the error in their ways before they end up looking silly!

Perhaps if you could appreciate that, with many of us, there is a real separation between the noble need for transparency and the fact that Assange, a single individual, is no kind of arbiter of good faith, and certainly not any kind of journalist that represents the press. If you confuse the criticism with Assange as the same as the idea behind Wikileaks, then you don't understand the issue.

I mean, he is being charged in connection with something he did to leak secret documents which is the whole point of Wikileaks.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
https://theintercept.com/2018/11/16...cuments-poses-grave-threats-to-press-freedom/

Another article highlighting the danger of an Assange prosecution.

But prosecuting Assange and/or WikiLeaks for publishing classified documents would be in an entirely different universe of press freedom threats. Reporting on the secret acts of government officials or powerful financial actors – including by publishing documents taken without authorization – is at the core of investigative journalism. From the Pentagon Papers to the Panama Papers to the Snowden disclosures to publication of Trump’s tax returns to the Iraq and Afghanistan war logs, some of the most important journalism over the last several decades has occurred because it is legal and constitutional to publish secret documents even if the sources of those documents obtained them through illicit or even illegal means.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,382
8,684
136
Trump's response:

Hardly knew him, never saw the guy. Played golf occasionally with him, but didn't know him at all.
said he's barely on his radar, "not my thing." So unworthy. The man's a disgrace. What kind of icon for the next generation?

Assange's golf game must have suffered being all those years in the Ecuadorian embassy. Trump doesn't want to know him now. As we know, he prefers heroes who don't get caught.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,382
8,684
136
My comfort with the security state has always been one of the least progressive things about me. That said, I can respect those who are genuinely dedicated to transparency even as I might disagree with them in specific cases. As such, I was perfectly ok with both Manning's conviction *and* her pardon. Assange and Snowden though? I've never bought them as any sort of idealists. I'd be perfectly happy to see the both of them spending the rest of their natural lives turning large rocks into smaller ones. (And no, this opinion of mine *really* isn't something new to this administration.)
I don't see Snowden and Assange in the same way. Assange appears to have aided and abetted the election of this snowman Trump, whose meltdown is long overdue. I think Snowden's motivations are far more altruistic than Assange.
 
Reactions: darkswordsman17

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Dude, I've reported you because I have NO IDEA what you are talking about. I forsee a mental health assessment in your future. You REALLY need some help.

Get it ... FAST!

Another snowflake melts... This is the modern day conservative... Hope the oppression stops fast!
 
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