Assault Weapons Ban

[ciba]

The AWB came up in another thread, so I thought I'd start a little discussion about what the AWB actually does.

Do you know what weapons it bans? Well, if it has the following characteristics AND a removeable magazine.

Rifles

* Folding/telescoping stock
* Protruding pistol grip
* Bayonet mount
* Threaded muzzle or flash suppressor
* Grenade launcher

Pistols

* Magazine outside grip
* Threaded muzzle
* Barrel shroud
* Unloaded weight of 50 ounces or more
* Semi-automatic version of a fully automatic weapon

Shotguns

* Folding/telescoping stock
* Protruding pistol grip
* Detachable magazine capacity
* Fixed magazine capacity greater than 5 rounds

Nearly all of these characteristics either have a legitimate use, do not contribute to the lethality of the weapon, or are completely asinine (BAYONET?)

Now for a bit of trivia...

"Assault Weapons" account for what percent of firearms-related crime? (even before the AWB)
A) One
B) Five
C) Ten
D) Twenty

 

[Bulk Beef]

I have a strong suspicion that the vast majority of people who think the AWB is a good, effective piece of legislation have no idea what it actually says or does. e.g. Most people probably think that it relates to machine guns somehow, a misperception that the gun control lobby has happily perpetuated.

 

[MonstaThrilla]

What's the legitimate civilian use of a grenade launcher? Or a muzzle or flash suppressor? What do YOU interpret the "right to bear arms" as?

And, if the AWB doesn't relate to machine guns, what law is it that bans M-16's, AK-47's, Uzis, etc.?

 

[3chordcharlie]

I think the point is that it bans weapons based on physical features rather than intended use, etc.

Maybe a better system would be something like the USGA uses for golf clubs - everything is illegal until it passes an evaluation. The USGA even makes exceptions to the specified rules sometimes for historical or 'obviously not cheating' reasons (e.g. Ping2 irons I believe).

That way things might be treated on a model by model basis more effectively, rather than a blind set of rules. There's a lot of merit in paying close attention to what you do and do not prohibit.

 

[ciba]

And, if the AWB doesn't relate to machine guns, what law is it that bans M-16's, AK-47's, Uzis, etc.?

The National Firearms Act of 1934.

An "assault weapon" is a weapon where one round is fired for ever pull of the trigger. "Assault Weapon" is a nice buzzword because people confuse it with assault rifles like M-16s, AK47s, etc.

The grenade launcher may be nice, but is irrelevant. Grenades are already prohibited. If someone is going to break the law and get a grenade, why would they care about the AWB?

Or a muzzle or flash suppressor?

So I'm not blind after firing only one round. Remember, a flash supressor only shields the user from the flash. It doesn't make the firearm invisible to everyone else.

The answer to my trivia is: "Assault Weapons" account for less than one percent of crimes involving firearms. Both before and after the ban.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: ciba

And, if the AWB doesn't relate to machine guns, what law is it that bans M-16's, AK-47's, Uzis, etc.?

The National Firearms Act of 1934.

An "assault weapon" is a weapon where one round is fired for ever pull of the trigger. "Assault Weapon" is a nice buzzword because people confuse it with assault rifles like M-16s, AK47s, etc.

The grenade launcher may be nice, but is irrelevant. Grenades are already prohibited. If someone is going to break the law and get a grenade, why would they care about the AWB?

Or a muzzle or flash suppressor?

So I'm not blind after firing only one round. Remember, a flash supressor only shields the user from the flash. It doesn't make the firearm invisible to everyone else.

The answer to my trivia is: "Assault Weapons" account for less than one percent of crimes involving firearms. Both before and after the ban.

IIRC the NFA act of 1934 just required full auto firearms to be registered with the government. In 1986 the manufacture of new "NFA" (full auto) weapons was outlawed.

 

[DeadByDawn]

There are so many loopholes anyways. You can still buy many of the same exact guns, as long as they are manufactured in the US, or have a specific number of US parts installed. Most worthless piece of legislation in a long time. I'll be happy when it goes away in Sept. Will make things simple again for those of us that enjoy target shooting.

 

[ciba]

You might be right. The NFA of 1934 is probably the one that makes it virtually impossible to get an automatic weapon. (Full Background check, federal licensing, etc).

Charlie, you've got the just of the idea. A lot of the things that are prohibited are reasonable. Gun control groups like to point out that threaded barrels can accept silencers. They can also accept barrel extenders, a perfectly legitimate use for the feature.

The argument proponents of the AWB is that something CAN be used for criminal purposes, so we should ban it. A car can be used for criminal purposes, should we ban them?

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: DeadByDawn
There are so many loopholes anyways. You can still buy many of the same exact guns, as long as they are manufactured in the US, or have a specific number of US parts installed. Most worthless piece of legislation in a long time. I'll be happy when it goes away in Sept. Will make things simple again for those of us that enjoy target shooting.

Completely wrong. There is no loophole to make a post 1994 weapon with the above characteristics legal in any way. Well barring ATF approval of course. You can't buy the exact same guns at all. The "US" made thing you refer to is the 1989 importation ban, completely seperate from the AWB of 1994.

It doesn't expire.

And further on the NFA 1934 act was the 1968 gun control act that granted amnesty to those who hadn't registered under the 1934 act. Anything after 1968 and not registered with the ATF is illegal, regardless of when it was made. 1986 barred the sale to civilians any newly made automatic weapon.

And what's so bad about full autos? I'd like to see that repealed. How many legal machine guns have been used in a crime since 1934? One. And it was a policeman who acquired it through his police department. And today an officer is still able to obtain one, as the 1986 act only applies to civilians.

 

[Bulk Beef]

This might give you an idea as to how silly the AWB really is.

And like Bruno said, there are no loopholes - a firearm either complies with the law or it does not; there is no "workaround."

 

[lozina]

I doubt they are going to let it expire anyway, probably be made permanent

 

[DeadByDawn]

As to the letter of the law, you are correct. I more so speaking of rifles having flash suppressors and pistol grips, but instead of having a screw on flash supressor, they weld it on. Thanks for the link, informing.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

The 1994 law was clearly misguided IMO, in that it played on the emotions of the public ("Who needs these dangerous military weapons?") while doing essentially nothing to protect anyone. The law was passed at the end of a 4-year spike in violent crime rates that, IMO had nothing whatsoever to do with the availability of "assault weapons" - if I were going to identify one factor to attribute it to (always risky), it would be the explosion in crime in urban areas related to the crack trade that was so prevalent in those days. The public wanted to see a reduction in crime, and so Congress took measures that had at least the appearance of helping matters.

 

[Genx87]

It has done nothing to curb violence. People who comit crimes dont give two shats about gun laws.

btw werent the gun laws that were created in 1964 or later lifted from the Nazis in 1938?

 

[Bulk Beef]

Originally posted by: lozina
I doubt they are going to let it expire anyway, probably be made permanent

So far, it's not looking that way. The Senate had the opportunity to pass their manufacturer's liability bill with a AWB renewal tacked on. The Republicans (most of whom really wanted the liability bill) sank it as soon as the renewal was added on by Senate Dems. If they want it, they sure as hell aren't talking about it.

 

[glenn1]

I don't think the AWB is unconstitutional, just dumb. Semiautomatic versions of military weapons (what the bill was conceived to cover) are about the most impractical weapon you could pick for nearly any crime, for any number of reasons. They're expensive, they typically are chambered in inpractical calibers and intended to fire ball ammunition rather than JHPs, are immediately recognizable to even those untrained in firearms, and are designed and built with engineering tradeoffs that maximize features like durability in a field environment at the expense of other important firearms characteristics. For almost any possible scenario you could think of, I can suggest multiple weapons that are a far better choice than any assault weapon you can name.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: ciba

An "assault weapon" is a weapon where one round is fired for ever pull of the trigger. "Assault Weapon" is a nice buzzword because people confuse it with assault rifles like M-16s, AK47s, etc.

Uhhh... isn't that basically every weapon? Because I don't know of any guns that fire 3/8th's of a round every time you pull the trigger.

 

[alchemize]

It was a pretty useless law. Really all it did was create a huge secondary market for "pre-ban" weapons and clips.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: ciba

An "assault weapon" is a weapon where one round is fired for ever pull of the trigger. "Assault Weapon" is a nice buzzword because people confuse it with assault rifles like M-16s, AK47s, etc.

Uhhh... isn't that basically every weapon? Because I don't know of any guns that fire 3/8th's of a round every time you pull the trigger.

Meaning that the following round is loaded and gun cocked upon the firing of the previous round. Thus revolvers and bolt actions aren't included. I'm not sure on pump shotguns, I think they are still subject to the AWB.

 

[ciba]

Uhhh... isn't that basically every weapon? Because I don't know of any guns that fire 3/8th's of a round every time you pull the trigger.

An automatic assault rifle (M-16, AK47, etc) will fire continuously until you release the trigger. If you press and hold a trigger on a semiautomatic rifle, it will only fire one round. Thus, an automatic has a much higher rate of fire than a semiautomatic rifle.

 

[Vadatajs]

* Folding/telescoping stock
* Protruding pistol grip
* Bayonet mount
* Threaded muzzle or flash suppressor
* Grenade launcher

Pistols

* Magazine outside grip
* Threaded muzzle
* Barrel shroud
* Unloaded weight of 50 ounces or more
* Semi-automatic version of a fully automatic weapon

Shotguns

* Folding/telescoping stock
* Protruding pistol grip
* Detachable magazine capacity
* Fixed magazine capacity greater than 5 rounds

The bolded one is the only one I see as worth saving. The rest are reasonable through licensed arms dealers, who have undergone extensive background checks.

 

[Shaocaholica]

Originally posted by: Vadatajs

* Grenade launcher

The bolded one is the only one I see as worth saving. The rest are reasonable through licensed arms dealers, who have undergone extensive background checks.

The current Assult Weapons Ban only bans the launcher not the ammunition (grenades). The grenades themselves are banned under a completely separate law, the Nation Firearms Act (NFA) which is not expiring and not under debate here.

 

[ciba]

Remember: The grenade launcher is still legal if the rifle doesn't have any of the other characteritics. It takes TWO to be illegal under AWB.

 

[MonstaThrilla]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: ciba

An "assault weapon" is a weapon where one round is fired for ever pull of the trigger. "Assault Weapon" is a nice buzzword because people confuse it with assault rifles like M-16s, AK47s, etc.

Uhhh... isn't that basically every weapon? Because I don't know of any guns that fire 3/8th's of a round every time you pull the trigger.

Meaning that the following round is loaded and gun cocked upon the firing of the previous round. Thus revolvers and bolt actions aren't included. I'm not sure on pump shotguns, I think they are still subject to the AWB.

Well that clears it up. The OP left out a pretty major part of the definition...

 

[Train]

I used to be Hard Core for gun control, (I actually got flamed out of Toms Hardware forums several years ago in a debate about this Issue) But then I came to my senses, now I support the NRA, and any gun owner, 100%, seeing Bowling For Columbine didnt change my Support of guns one bit either.

Its weird how some of the same people who say the government is trying to take over and rule us are the same people saying theres no practical use for Assault Weapons. The Big Govt we are all afraid of is exactly WHY we should have access to assualt weapons. Hell I believe I should be able to buy an Abrams tank, with a double barrelled .50 cal on top, Mine detection system, Anti-RPG systems on all 4 corners, Sabo rounds, the whole 9 yards. Ok, maybe we can draw the line somewhere, like Nuclear Subs, but an assault Rifle? please.