Question Asus mobos burning x3D CpuS?

[mikeymikec]

Stupid question time!

What's stopping GN's Steve from testing the "problematic" BIOSes the same way that "supposedly paid by ASUS" dude did?

In that dude's video, he tested the "fixed" BIOS: what about the "problematic" BIOSes?

AFAIK:

Hypothetically speaking nothing is stopping either scenario from occurring. If the other guy's video becomes sufficiently noticeable then it wouldn't surprise me if GN did notice/respond to it.

But especially if the other guy's video is paid for by Asus, it's part and parcel of a toxic PR job that includes poor RMA service (which I have personally experienced with an Asus graphics card), issuing beta BIOS's for issues so critical that they may cause fire along with warnings that if you use them then your warranty is void, revising CPU compatibility lists without any acknowledgement of what the revision was and why, making users pay for shipping when their product has been poorly designed, and then topping it off by accusing reviewers of "you're holding it wrong".

The most they've done to counter their bad PR was this announcement AFAIK:

ASUS BIOS updates and warranty coverage for ASUS AM5 platform motherboards with Ryzen™ 7000 series processors | News｜ASUS Malaysia

We want to address the concerns that have been raised by our users about whether recent BIOS updates will impact the warranty of ASUS AM5 motherboards. We want to address the c

www.asus.com

But the way they don't even knowledge making any mistake continues to contribute to the dumpster fire. On one hand, beta BIOS saying no warranty, on the other hand this announcement. When push comes to shove, will a user get service that aligns with one philosophy or the other?

 

[aigomorla]

But the way they don't even knowledge making any mistake continues to contribute to the dumpster fire. On one hand, beta BIOS saying no warranty, on the other hand this announcement. When push comes to shove, will a user get service that aligns with one philosophy or the other?

What ticks me off tho is...

1. No Advance RMA offering. All effected boards should be Advance RMA'd to you.
2. You need to pay for shipping. (Uhhh... no... again Advance RMA should give given with a return mail slip.)
3. I hear you will get refurb'd boards back on top... not new ones, but refurb'd ones.

GG X670 owners....

Sigh... there goes my future HEDT ProArt class board.... i am probably definitely not going to buy it no matter how nice it is because of how stupid ASUS is handling this.

I'll take my 1000 dollar board to another vendor.

 

[dlerious]

I just showed you guys.
What is steve evidence for him to act this way to spend half a video mocking Asus of being incompetent with voltage application, which we know now is his incorrect interpretation of his incorrect measured points.
What is his next move if we deemed such attacks are baseless now? Apologise and mend bridges is what i suggested

Who's been deleting messages from the Asus facebook group or Reddit? How did Asus manage to ship out motherboards with a capacitor reversed? Wfy do people hate Armoury Crate?

 

[aigomorla]

Im sorry i have to ask.....

@dccc do you work for or represent ASUS in any way?
It really feels like your a Rep for ASUS, especially the timing on your graduation from Lurker status.
If your a Rep for ASUS, we would like you to act like one, and answer questions in how they intend to handle the after math, and not try to help assist in trying to sweep the issue under a rug.

Like how they intend to handle RMA.
If we really are getting REFURB boards back from RMA.
If we still have to pay for RMA shipping.
If Advance RMA will be available for free to all people with damaged boards.
How long is the typical turn around for RMA's on the X670.

These kind of questions would be so much helpful if your a Rep for ASUS, instead of giving us a sponsored video trying to discredit the entire influencer community.

 

[coercitiv]

@dccc do you work for or represent ASUS in any way?

It's been two times I've changed my mind on asking this exact question. The apparent emotional investment is just very high for a coincidence.

For what is worth though, Asus would have been better served by a proper official statement that reassures people there is no discrepancy between set voltage and measured voltage at die level. An "independent" video by an Asus engineer is not the solution. Then again they're probably reluctant to do this considering setting the record straight on this issue isn't going to solve their PR problem, which is now cascading like dominoes into everything that people were already grudgingly tolerating from their brand.

On the other side there is a non-zero possibility that Gamers Nexus did not get accurate measurements. However, so far I did manage to find a twitter post in which they state to have made measurements at the socket level, and also one where they state to have taken measurements in 3 locations on the Asus boards. I would much rather see a demo from Asus showcasing the older BIOS and resulting VSOC under load, apples and apples comparison would clear the waters.

Regarding Gamers Nexus' aggressive stance towards Asus right out the gate, my interpretation is there's probably more tension behind the scenes than we know. GN tends to be more acidic at times with brands disrespecting their customers, but they also try to get in touch, communicate their findings and ask for comments. They don't hit first and ask questions later. Therefore, if they come out the gate swinging , then there probably was a breakdown in communication with Asus from the start. Here's what they had to say when they posted their "scumbag" video:

I want to note also that ASUS emailed us - unprompted - and asked to fly out this week to meet with us about the issues. We told them we'd be down for it but that we'd have to record the conversation. They haven't replied to us for 5 days. So... ASUS had a chance to correct this.

Wanting to comment on something and provide a statement is fine. We're always happy to provide that opportunity. See: Newegg. However, we're not going to let it be done without accountability and in the shadows. They could have done this the right way.

They emailed us end of last week, for context. So it was well before this video was done and we had room to make changes if they made the right decisions.

Personally I would love to have someone asked on camera on the VSOC limit supplied by AMD to motherboard vendors. I don't know who's protecting who, but I'd like to know were all the stink comes from. So far everyone is busy spraying with deodorants and air freshners, but nobody's willing to use soap and water.

 

[mikeymikec]

Wfy do people hate Armoury Crate?

Through experience I try to avoid installing any extra software, especially from motherboard makers. When I build a computer, I need to test it thoroughly using as minimalist a setup as possible, because anything can cause a stability issue.

Armoury Crate (on the default BIOS settings) auto-installs on Windows the moment you give the machine an Internet connection. Software that has to hook into some pretty low-level stuff. If that software has a bug in, you've potentially got problems that can affect system stability. There's just no reason for it to auto-install.

The security implications make it worse: A piece of software with low-level access to the hardware and is near-guaranteed to be installed on every computer with an Asus board means there are a lot of machines out there with that software installed. Throw in a backdoor or some other networkable security vulnerability, you've got a popular-enough bit of software for black hats to go after, and once they're in they've already been given at the very least signed drivers with BIOS access to allow them to make low-level modifications that are extremely unlikely to ever be detected by anti-malware software.

Without the auto-install aspect, the likelihood of finding such software being used in the wild probably drops to less than 10% of Asus board users.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Personally I would love to have someone asked on camera on the VSOC limit supplied by AMD to motherboard vendors. I don't know who's protecting who, but I'd like to know were all the stink comes from. So far everyone is busy spraying with deodorants and air freshners, but nobody's willing to use soap and water.

AMD does seem at least a little negligent here. But you'd think the mobo OEMs would have noticed wear (as well as possible failure of thermal sensors) during testing of QS chips. And who knows, maybe some of them did, given how few of them were defaulting to 1.3v vSoC or higher.

 

[biostud]

AMD does seem at least a little negligent here. But you'd think the mobo OEMs would have noticed wear (as well as possible failure of thermal sensors) during testing of QS chips. And who knows, maybe some of them did, given how few of them were defaulting to 1.3v vSoC or higher.

The question is, does anyone actually have a document with AMD's recommend voltage settings for motherboard makers?

 

[DrMrLordX]

The question is, does anyone actually have a document with AMD's recommend voltage settings for motherboard makers?

*shrug*

I don't.

 

[aigomorla]

So far everyone is busy spraying with deodorants and air freshners, but nobody's willing to use soap and water.

so im not the only one that smells the eau de toilette ROG RAMGPAGE MAXIMUS STRIX unisex perfume .

 

[coercitiv]

Update from GN is live, watching it right now.

The good news is the corporate cogs seem to be moving. This is what they had to share with GN:

1. We completed an internal root cause analysis and shared our findings with AMD.
2. We implemented a thermal mitigation function in our UEFI BIOS.
3. We implemented AMD's max SoC voltage guidance and have released UEFI BIOS releases with these implementations starting in late April. We have also recently completed posting an all-new range of formal releases which also contain AMDs latest I .00.7 A AGESA. All UEFI BIOS builds for AM5 motherboards X670/B650 are live.
4. We are working with our channel partners and system integrators to notify all consumers regarding their warranties and guidance relating to UEFI releases.
5. We have issued a formal PR which is present on our ASUS corporate website and on our social platforms.

• May 4th - An important update for RyzenTM 7000 series processors on ASUS AM5 platform Motherboard
• May 15th -ASUS BIOS updates and warranty coverage for ASUS AM5 platform motherboards with RyzenTM 7000 series processors

6. Since the first report, we have issued guidance to define all incoming service cases as a high priority. We have also supplemented our warranty by broadening our APS warranty program with more AM5 models.
7. On May 12, we announced that all customers with AM5 motherboards qualify for the ASUS
8. We are working with our retail partners to notify all consumers with our recommendation to update to the latest UEFI releases.
9. We removed our BETA messaging and have openly communicated that users are covered for both AMD and Intel platforms should they use a BETA UEFI and if they enable EXPO and or XMP on their motherboard.

 

[H433x0n]

AMD does seem at least a little negligent here. But you'd think the mobo OEMs would have noticed wear (as well as possible failure of thermal sensors) during testing of QS chips. And who knows, maybe some of them did, given how few of them were defaulting to 1.3v vSoC or higher.

This has allegedly been happening from the very beginning of AM5, at least according to @1usmus on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1650791399699218433

The question is, does anyone actually have a document with AMD's recommend voltage settings for motherboard makers?

We never will I think. The average consumer believes it's Asus blowing up Zen 4 CPUs and that conclusion is fine with AMD, Gigabyte, MSI and Asrock. The guideline materials (i.e. voltages) given to motherboard vendors including the full AGESA change logs are all protected under an NDA.

 

[A///]

Yuri is both reliable and has a grudge against amd depending on what even you talk about. he's very good at what he does but amd also gave him the cold shoulder a few years ago over something he'd done to improve zen. although i doubt he'd destroy his credibility over a lie like this. zen 4 still seems to be plagued by day one issues on the consumer level. for epyc there seems to be zero issues, and why should there be? ryzen consumer is but an after thought for amd now.

this isn't mean to disparage amd but it does seem they're giving more care and consideration into their actual groundbreaking product, zen 5.

 

[DrMrLordX]

This has allegedly been happening from the very beginning of AM5, at least according to @1usmus on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1650791399699218433

That's a different issue entirely. The problem I was responding to was that AMD allowed up to 1.4v vSoC in their AGESA without (to the best of an outsider's knowledge) providing any additional guidance, EXPO or otherwise. The fact that certain motherboards would cause vSoC to "chase" vDIMM settings is a completely separate issue. None of AMD's post-Zen platforms have specified such behavior prior to AM5, and I find it difficult to believe that AMD actually recommended such voltage behavior for AM5. Why would they? Nobody in their right mind sets vSoC = vDIMM and thinks that's a good idea.

Of course in the case of the tweet above where someone destroyed his own CPU, it was likely ASUS that was asking them to be silent, though that is never specified.

If you just posted that as if to say "yes, Asus knew at least, here's why" then yeah I can see where you are coming from. But there are other circumstances where Asus was allowing vSoC to hit 1.4v without that specific behavior you cited, and it was still bad for the chip, even in cases where the sensor network remained intact and catastrophic thermal runaway did not occur.

 

[eek2121]

If there is one good thing that has come out of any of this, it is that ASUS isn’t blasting the chipset fan on my motherboard during memory training anymore (with the latest BIOS).

 

[A///]

If there is one good thing that has come out of any of this, it is that ASUS isn’t blasting the chipset fan on my motherboard during memory training anymore (with the latest BIOS).

probably on its way out 🤣

 

[eek2121]

probably on its way out 🤣

Don’t say that! 🤣

NOT heating that sound after the BIOS flashed and the system rebooted almost gave me PTSD. I lost a pentium board a long time ago from a bad flash. My current board has flashback, but still!

 

[aigomorla]

5. We have issued a formal PR which is present on our ASUS corporate website and on our social platforms.

I don't think they are doing a very good job at this if they are deleting twitter comments / hiding them.
Also if the guy who we think was supposed to be our PR, he did a very horrible job at cleaning up and should of addressed actual questions, and not tried to indoctrinate us like a Reaper would from mass effect.

Mah, well im done in this regards, the guy hasn't come back to even verify if he is the PR contact to ASUS.

Im still urked that they are making people pay for the RMA mailing, and no Advance RMA feature, even tho its a 500 dollar ROG board.
Not to mention its not a NEW board but a Refurb'd one.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Mah, well im done in this regards, the guy hasn't come back to even verify if he is the PR contact to ASUS.

Probably got fired for making things worse

 

[A///]

Don’t say that! 🤣

NOT heating that sound after the BIOS flashed and the system rebooted almost gave me PTSD. I lost a pentium board a long time ago from a bad flash. My current board has flashback, but still!

yeahs it's dying. my current msi board is giving me some issues on an intel. very funky behavior but it might be to do a corrupted os install due to rapid repeated power failures the area had a while back.

and not tried to indoctrinate us like a Reaper would from mass effect.

and translated into english this means???????????

 

[igor_kavinski]

and translated into english this means???????????

Baddies from a game: https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Reaper

 

[aigomorla]

and translated into english this means???????????

lol sorry the gamer side of me assumes everyone is a gamer.

Basically as Igor states in the link above..

Put simply, any organic being who is in close proximity to a Reaper or certain Reaper artifacts for too long comes to believe the Reapers are correct in their goals, and will do anything to serve them. Gradually, the mind is eroded until the individual becomes a mindless slave no longer capable of independent thought.

 

[AdamK47]

Through experience I try to avoid installing any extra software, especially from motherboard makers. When I build a computer, I need to test it thoroughly using as minimalist a setup as possible, because anything can cause a stability issue.

Armoury Crate (on the default BIOS settings) auto-installs on Windows the moment you give the machine an Internet connection. Software that has to hook into some pretty low-level stuff. If that software has a bug in, you've potentially got problems that can affect system stability. There's just no reason for it to auto-install.

The security implications make it worse: A piece of software with low-level access to the hardware and is near-guaranteed to be installed on every computer with an Asus board means there are a lot of machines out there with that software installed. Throw in a backdoor or some other networkable security vulnerability, you've got a popular-enough bit of software for black hats to go after, and once they're in they've already been given at the very least signed drivers with BIOS access to allow them to make low-level modifications that are extremely unlikely to ever be detected by anti-malware software.

Without the auto-install aspect, the likelihood of finding such software being used in the wild probably drops to less than 10% of Asus board users.

Asus has for many years installed executables which are dependent on services which are dependent on component services which are dependent on other services which are dependent on registry setting and so on and so on. It's a mess of CPU cycle stealing executables and services. Most of which aren't entirely needed but are there for dependency reasons. Year after year I hope Asus rearchitects this stuff. They don't. They continue to build on ancient architectural mistakes.

Once you have it installed, good luck trying to uninstall it. It will leave a mess of services without executables. Com services that don't tie into anything anymore. Registry settings strewn all over. Check Event Viewer and be in awe of the mess an "uninstall" of Asus hardware drivers or utilities leaves behind.

 

[biostud]

I've never owned an ASUS motherboard, so my opinion is just from what I've read and seen online.

I like my PC builds minimalistic and with as little "extra" RGB, software etc. and especially after the RoG branding of ASUS products, it is the exact opposite of what I want. I don't have any brand preference, but ASRock had the board with the PCIe layout, features and costs that suited my needs. Some builders want all the bells and whistles and can choose ASUS, and I can understand their frustration with the company, as you expect that with premium price comes premium service.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Maybe their Creator models and accompanying software is better? Any users of such products wanna share their experience?