Question Asus mobos burning x3D CpuS?

[aigomorla]

I have 5 was my point. And yes, untested and stopgap apply. But why are the "whiners" the non-AMD owners ?

you NEED to stop.
Please just stand up.. and go take a walk.

 

[CP5670]

Mine defaults to 1.35V even with the new bios, and the actual max reported in hwinfo is 1.354V. It seems the only way to change it while Expo is enabled is to apply a negative offset. I'm inclined to just leave it as it is given that it's been working fine under many different games and scenarios. Reducing it may improve the idle power draw though, which is quite high.

 

[Schmide]

Funny thing. A few weeks back I built a 7900x system with the ROG B650ef and 32gb 6000 ram deal from micro center. After putting it together, I got distracted by other things and let it sit till a few days ago. Updated the bios before I got to configuring the OS. I hope the bios updates fix things...

 

[Abwx]

I have 5 was my point. And yes, untested and stopgap apply. But why are the "whiners" the non-AMD owners ?

Those who do not own an AMD CPU have no usefull info to provide, basically they are just here to re hash whatever they found in the net that suit their taste and/or agenda, as aknowledged by some usual suspects s behaviour...

 

[mv2devnull]

So AMD designed EXPO memory. The motherboard manufacturer, in support of this design, includes a setting that uses the MEMORY MANUFACTURER'S design frequency specification. So if you use that, you are not exceeding the design spec. Also, right at the bottom of the AMD spec page is this:

" Supported Technologies AMD EXPO™ Technology"

But then AMD says their chip runs at DDR-5200 max listed. So which is it ? You can can make the argument either way IMO. BUT when you consider "excessive SoC voltages destroy the chips' thermal sensors" then you definitely are going outside then spec.

An ASUS X670E board lists on specs:

Memory: 4 x DIMM, Max. 128GB, DDR5 6400+(OC)/6200(OC)/ 6000(OC)/ 5800(OC)/ 5600(OC)/ 5400(OC)/ 5200/ 5000/ 4800 ECC and Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory

and that the board supports EXPO.

Is it true that motherboard (through UEFI or drivers) provides all the tools that are used to modify clocks, voltages, etc?
Obviously the CPU and memory manufacturers have to play along -- there were "cannot overclock" CPUs?
The motherboard has tools to adjust memory specs. XMP and EXPO are some of those tools.

Similarly, one can hit the pedal to the metal in a car and it will go faster than the speed limit. Why do car manufacturers "support" speeding?
Granted, having a "standard" way to exceed the speed limit (XMP/EXPO profile) is not something that I recall seeing in a car.
Why do motherboard manufacturers add the tools for overclocking? Why some cars have way stronger engine than needed for normal use?
Customers that pay? Besides, all these "warranty void" customers have no option but to buy more, which sounds like "profit".

Apparently AMD and motherboard manufacturers did not have the EXPO "standard" nailed down properly.

 

[Markfw]

An ASUS X670E board lists on specs:

and that the board supports EXPO.

Is it true that motherboard (through UEFI or drivers) provides all the tools that are used to modify clocks, voltages, etc?
Obviously the CPU and memory manufacturers have to play along -- there were "cannot overclock" CPUs?
The motherboard has tools to adjust memory specs. XMP and EXPO are some of those tools.

Similarly, one can hit the pedal to the metal in a car and it will go faster than the speed limit. Why do car manufacturers "support" speeding?
Granted, having a "standard" way to exceed the speed limit (XMP/EXPO profile) is not something that I recall seeing in a car.
Why do motherboard manufacturers add the tools for overclocking? Why some cars have way stronger engine than needed for normal use?
Customers that pay? Besides, all these "warranty void" customers have no option but to buy more, which sounds like "profit".

Apparently AMD and motherboard manufacturers did not have the EXPO "standard" nailed down properly.

First, a question. Do you have an AM5 motherboard ? Or is all this out of thin air ?

Now as to what I am talking about specifically, if you go into the BIOS on an AM5 motherboard, somewhere this is a choice for setting the memory to EXPO, and the drop down list shows the detected memory settings of what it sees,. For example, when I put in my Gskill DDR5-6000 CL30-38-38-96 memory and go into bios, it shows that as a choice. You select it, and it changes several voltage settings and memory settings all in one step, the selection in the list. I don't even know all the things it changes, I just know AMD says on its website for my 7950x, that it supports the EXPO technology, so when it changes everything, I assume its correct. In my case, every time I have used it, the system works flawlessly , and thats 5 different systems. This is the technology that AMD supports I assume.

Now its obvious from this thread that SOME BIOS for SOME motherboards do not make those settings correctly, and thus have problems.

 

[Ranulf]

The plot thickens? GN has been testing the affected mobos/cpus apparently. Video being put together he says.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1651308183745331202

"GN asking questions:
Asus: attempts to throw AMD under the bus
Also ASUS: trips over own deceit while trying to throw AMD under bus and accidentally throws itself under the bus
GN: is the bus
Still putting the videos together, but there's been a lot of progress."

 

[coercitiv]

The plot thickens? GN has been testing the affected mobos/cpus apparently. Video being put together he says.

I knew GN was on it after finding out they had bought one or more damaged CPUs to investigate. This will be very interesting.

 

[MarkPost]

You know you guys NEED to chill out with all the Anti-Anti AMD.
I am hearing the same thing as tamz_msc in people reporting the cpu is bricked or board is bricking after updates.

So you guys are going to call me liar as well?





Really?
You guys wanna attack him instead of doing a little debugging on reddit and the web?

Here... new bios's are BRICKING some boards or killing CPU's.

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/11zb6ln

so this is a link with no relationship with the topic.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/12yq4yb

So this is the mega thread about dead CPUs? I've managed to count TWO guys claiming its CPU died. impressive yeah

 

[TheELF]

Those who do not own an AMD CPU have no usefull info to provide, basically they are just here to re hash whatever they found in the net that suit their taste and/or agenda, as aknowledged by some usual suspects s behaviour...

And what useful info do those that do have AMD CPUs have to provide? "Mine didn't blow up (yet) " ?
Nobody said that all 7000 CPUs will blow up so that info is useless as well.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The plot thickens? GN has been testing the affected mobos/cpus apparently. Video being put together he says.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1651308183745331202

"GN asking questions:
Asus: attempts to throw AMD under the bus
Also ASUS: trips over own deceit while trying to throw AMD under bus and accidentally throws itself under the bus
GN: is the bus
Still putting the videos together, but there's been a lot of progress."

With the amount of press this is getting, there is a silver lining. The legendarily horrific Asus customer service won't be able to screw over customers without facing the wrath of the internet mob.

 

[Abwx]

And what useful info do those that do have AMD CPUs have to provide? "Mine didn't blow up (yet) " ?
Nobody said that all 7000 CPUs will blow up so that info is useless as well.

They gave voltages of their MBs for comparison, wich allow to check alleged veracity of faulty bioses, on the other end you re just here to badmouth AMD as aknowledged by your track record.

Edit : What we can read here and there is that AMD has provided bioses blocks that allow to significantly outspec the standard settings, Asus among others is well known to push the specs to grab a handfull percent performance.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Maybe I should be glad I haven't brought my 7950X3D online yet.

Do we have any actual numbers on how many people have been affected by this problem?

 

[IEC]

Theoretically you could tell the CPU it is getting one voltage while actually giving it more via VRM trickery. Not saying it's what's happening here, but it's also a possibility given the majority of reports I've seen online seem to be related to boards from A...SUS.

Maybe I should be glad I haven't brought my 7950X3D online yet.

Do we have any actual numbers on how many people have been affected by this problem?

If not a result of PEBKAC, even one is too many.

It seems like fewer than a dozen based on photographic evidence. But it could be more. I'm glad GN is doing some independent investigation into this.

 

[utahraptor]

I did get kind of sick to my stomach having read about this after I had ran a system stability test for around 10 minutes and just all the normal use for 2 months prior to getting the 4/21 or whatever date the fixed bios came out. I had at some points smelled some "hot" smells when the system was going full tilt a few weeks ago but figured that was normal and wear and tear. I'm not going to take off the cooler to inspect things as I am having no issues at this time.

 

[In2Photos]

Ok, so I have 2 Ryzen 7000 systems at home, both quite different from each other. Thought I would share some info. The first is my daughter's build:

R5 7600X
Gigabyte Aorus Elite AX
32GB G Skill DDR5-6000 C36 (EXPO)

Her system has been up and running since Christmas. She is on it playing games at least 3-4 hours a day, sometimes up to 8-10 if she doesn't have to work that day. I just checked her system with HWInfo64 and with EXPO enabled the vSOC is 1.245V. This is on a BIOS from February I believe as I have not messed with her system since then. She has had zero problems with her system since that BIOS update. We had a couple of LAN issues before that.

My system is in my sig. With XMP enabled on my RAM I had it running at 6200 C30 with Buildzoid's timings. My vSOC was set to Auto and the motherboard set it at 1.350V with XMP enabled. I've been trying to see if I could get idle power draw down and was able to reduce vSOC to 1.250V, but no lower (RAM is only at 6000 now though, have not tried 6200 yet). It won't boot if it's set lower than 1.250V. Something to note was that when manually setting vSOC if I put it anything at 1.300V or higher the value is RED indicating the value is over the safe range, yet the motherboard still applied 1.350V in auto. I'm not on my system nearly as much as my daughter or someone like Mark using it 24/7, but I have not experienced any issues either.

 

[coercitiv]

Something to note was that when manually setting vSOC if I put it anything at 1.300V or higher the value is RED indicating the value is over the safe range, yet the motherboard still applied 1.350V in auto. I'm not on my system nearly as much as my daughter or someone like Mark using it 24/7, but I have not experienced any issues either.

Saw your comment and immediately checked to see whether you had a MSI board. That's something "normal" for MSI, if I may be allowed to write without actually owning a Zen 4 system. (not a jab at you @In2Photos)

MSI and probably other mobo makers have this "we know better" approach in which they caution the user not to increase a parameter beyond a certain value. Then they go ahead and increase that value themselves. For example, on my current MSI board, the Auto value for System Agent is 1.35V and yet attempting to manually set VCCSA above 1.2V will turn the value RED.

Spoiler

Imagine the confusion this creates for a beginner. Is the system going to burst into flames? Is the RED indicator just a lie? "Fortunately" it's the latter, although this sets the stage for the day when the RED indicator will be true and the user will simply ignore it.

 

[coercitiv]

AMD Issues Second Statement on Ryzen 7000 Burnout Issues: Caps SoC Voltages

www.anandtech.com

Statement from AMD:

We have root caused the issue and have already distributed a new AGESA that puts measures in place on certain power rails on AM5 motherboards to prevent the CPU from operating beyond its specification limits, including a cap on SOC voltage at 1.3V. None of these changes affect the ability of our Ryzen 7000 Series processors to overclock memory using EXPO or XMP kits or boost performance using PBO technology.

We expect all of our ODM partners to release new BIOS for their AM5 boards over the next few days. We recommend all users to check their motherboard manufacturers website and update their BIOS to ensure their system has the most up to date software for their processor.

Anyone whose CPU may have been impacted by this issue should contact AMD customer support. Our customer service team is aware of the situation and prioritizing these cases.

It looks like it was a bit more than VSOC:

The cap on SoC voltages looks to be the primary change in the AGESA firmware rollout, although AMD has identified a possible voltage rail within the CPU that is causing the burnouts. Along with SoC voltages, AMD has put a limit within the firmware that prevents the Ryzen 7000 CPUs from going beyond specification.

 

[Abwx]

Statements from AMD and various MBs manufacturers can be found here :

AMD Identifies Root Cause of Ryzen 7000 CPU Burnout Issue, Related To Higher Chip Voltages

AMD has identified the root cause of the Ryzen 7000 CPU burnout issues which happen to be higher voltage on the chip.

wccftech.com

 

[MarkPost]

Statements from AMD and various MBs manufacturers can be found here :

AMD Identifies Root Cause of Ryzen 7000 CPU Burnout Issue, Related To Higher Chip Voltages

AMD has identified the root cause of the Ryzen 7000 CPU burnout issues which happen to be higher voltage on the chip.

wccftech.com

So no Auto settings causing those few CPU deads but manual oced settings increasing some voltajes too high. It was pretty obvious.

 

[moinmoin]

So no Auto settings causing those few CPU deads but manual oced settings increasing some voltajes too high. It was pretty obvious.

Where are you reading this?

 

[In2Photos]

Saw your comment and immediately checked to see whether you had a MSI board. That's something "normal" for MSI, if I may be allowed to write without actually owning a Zen 4 system. (not a jab at you @In2Photos)

MSI and probably other mobo makers have this "we know better" approach in which they caution the user not to increase a parameter beyond a certain value. Then they go ahead and increase that value themselves. For example, on my current MSI board, the Auto value for System Agent is 1.35V and yet attempting to manually set VCCSA above 1.2V will turn the value RED.

Spoiler

View attachment 80041

Imagine the confusion this creates for a beginner. Is the system going to burst into flames? Is the RED indicator just a lie? "Fortunately" it's the latter, although this sets the stage for the day when the RED indicator will be true and the user will simply ignore it.

Yeah I've seen this behavior all the way back to my X58 build (MSI X58 Pro).

AMD Issues Second Statement on Ryzen 7000 Burnout Issues: Caps SoC Voltages

www.anandtech.com

Statement from AMD:


It looks like it was a bit more than VSOC:

I don't know about anyone else but I'm planning to wait a few days/weeks to make sure these new BIOS don't have some other quirk since they were rolled out so fast.

 

[aigomorla]

With the amount of press this is getting, there is a silver lining. The legendarily horrific Asus customer service won't be able to screw over customers without facing the wrath of the internet mob.

This!
now they have AMD to throw fault on, so you know they will be pushing 100% of the blame to AMD.
Otherwise they would probably reject RMA on the 7000X3D stating..

"Customer manually removed pins from CPU... it was pinless." or.
"CPU Pins found soldered onto socket.... physical damage. "
- RMA staff refusing RMA because the CPU is missing Pins, when they moved sockets entirely.
(sarcasm) but i would not be surprised if ASUS did it.

Maybe I should be glad I haven't brought my 7950X3D online yet.

Do we have any actual numbers on how many people have been affected by this problem?

From what im reading, its only a stop gap.
From what else im reading, is that some cpu's maybe already have become degraded depending how how often it was boosting, so when you flash to new bios, your cpu can no longer hold stock settings from voltage degradation.

Also im hearing boards bricking during update, or some either form of bad bios update.
So I would really wait to see what goes on if its within your timeline.

Defintiely DO NOT BUY A USED 7000X3D

Yeah I've seen this behavior all the way back to my X58 build (MSI X58 Pro).

yup its about X58 days... but the X58 used lote's socket, and had 1366 pins to distribute the amperage.
The LGA1156 tho.. remember the little sister of the x58 platform, the first "consumer" line we got.

Yup.. fire

Socket 1156 burning issues...is the fire out? - Overclockers

Several months ago, there was some news worthy mentions from many sites about the Foxconn made sockets for the P55 (Socket 1156) platform including Anandtech's article. When the issue was in its prime, one would see many forum users suggesting others to stay away from motherboard "X" because it...

www.overclockers.com

I think it was a simular thing also the poor socket of foxconn versus a lote socket.
We were hammering that 2500k and 2600k that it required a socket change to lga1155 along with lote's socket.

 

[MarkPost]

Where are you reading this?

In the link provided by Abwx.

For example, Biostar official statement:

"BIOSTAR RELEASES A NEW BIOS UPDATE TO LIMIT RYZEN 7000X3D VOLTAGES

Recent reports suggest that AMD Ryzen 7000X3D processors are prone to physical damage when overclocked with voltage assistance. This has prompted motherboard vendors to rush BIOS updates with voltage limiters, and BIOSTAR is no exception.

The new BIOS update from BIOSTAR restricts direct voltage to CPU Vcore Voltage, CPU SOC Voltage, and CPU MISC Voltage, preventing over-voltage and reducing the risk of damage to the 7000X3D series CPUs. Additionally, BIOSTAR also has PBO (Precision Boot Overdrive, Default: Auto) function to provide the best performance for 7000X3D series CPUs even under Voltage restrictions."

 

[tamz_msc]

For example, Biostar official statement:

BIOSTAR's statement came before AMD's second statement.