Asus P4T533-C & 1066 rdram

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Bozo Galora

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 1999
7,271
0
0

dont blame sspsr - he is rightfully mad since he spent a bunch on some cutting edge stuff that doesnt work as advertised. The last thing he wants to hear is "mine works fine, whats your prob."
now we find you are running at 1.95 which is high, quite high.
but dont take the flaming personally, as I would really like to hear your experience when you do the PLL turbo thing, perhaps you could PM me if and when you get around to it.
 

ManojM

Member
Feb 15, 2001
47
0
0
Originally posted by: Bozo Galora
and BTW: just curious - what vendor did you get your 3 mobo from?

I am in Hong Kong. I got them locally.

PS. 1.95V seems high but my CPU temp when idle is about 34 degrees C and full load at 40 degrees C. I am using the Swiftech heatsink with Delta fan (8cm). I am also using a special thermal oil which is better than the Artic Silver 3.





 

Terrapin

Member
Nov 12, 2000
163
0
0
I'm still a bit confused. Pardon the newbie.

If I can one day actually get a hold of Kingston 1066 rdram, and place it into an Asus P4T533-C, will I have a problem?

I understand the default setting of the bios needs to be changed from its default, but will the default setting prevent me from booting up the system?

Terrapin
 

Den

Member
Jan 11, 2000
168
0
0
In German? No thanks, I have enough problems without that.

Originally posted by: Bozo Galora
New P4T533-C bios out yesterday - the -10 beta

Somebody with probs please try!

 

Den

Member
Jan 11, 2000
168
0
0
Is that your obnoxious way of telling me it is not in German? The sight is in German, there is no documentation with the BIOS file, there is no text I can read that tells me what is fixed in this BIOS and if it is apropriate for my situation or not. Sounds like a very dangerous thing to do to me, if it does not work my MB is toast and probably not covered under warenty to boot. You are very brave with other people's hardware.

Originally posted by: Bozo Galora
er....
should I even answer this?

 

Bozo Galora

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 1999
7,271
0
0
<<" Is that your obnoxious way of telling me it is not in German">>

Den:

You do not seem to have the temperment necessary to be a successful computer configurer - perhaps you should just buy a Compaq and take up a hobby more suited to your easily aggravated personality.......like checkers.

A trip to the psychiatrist, with a goal of getting a perscription for longtime use of Prozac should also be investigated.

Edit: Just curious - did you graduate from high school yet? I note you spell warranty "warenty".
 

Den

Member
Jan 11, 2000
168
0
0
You do not seem to have the temperment necessary to be a civil human being. Perhaps you should just stay on USENET and flame people there instead of giving out dangerous advice and insulting people for having the audacity to questioning it.

A trip to a anger management class and a perscription of valium would probably be a good idea.

I have sucesfull built about 8 computers from individual components over the last 12 years, this is the first time I have had anything like this amount of trouble with one. It is clear that either the memory or the MB is defective.

It is true that I have poor spelling, it is a side effect of my Dyslexia. If you want to flame me for that too I am sure that will make you feel like a better person than me. I have a masters degree from Caltech from 4 years ago if you really want to know.

If you install random foreign language bios's on your MB that is your business, and clearly you have a less risk averse attitude than I do, but it is not clear to me how that makes you have the "temperment necessary to be a successful computer configurer". You go spend more than $3000 on what are supposed to be high quality components, spend dozens of hours trying to get them to work reliably, and make countless calls to incompetent tech support. Then have some "helpful comunity member" flame you for questioning his dangerous advice and still not get annoyed. I tell you, such a person does not exist.

If you have something constructive and helpful to say, or evidence that the beta bios is indeed the apropriate one for my situation and in English so that I can use it, come forward with it. Otherwise take your flames to somewhere where they are the accepted mode of communication, I am sure you would fit in just great on USENET.


Originally posted by: Bozo Galora
<<" Is that your obnoxious way of telling me it is not in German">>

Den:

You do not seem to have the temperment necessary to be a successful computer configurer - perhaps you should just buy a Compaq and take up a hobby more suited to your easily aggravated personality.......like checkers.

A trip to the psychiatrist, with a goal of getting a perscription for longtime use of Prozac should also be investigated.

Edit: Just curious - did you graduate from high school yet? I note you spell warranty "warenty".

 

Bozo Galora

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 1999
7,271
0
0

a.)I didn't flame you, you freaked out and attacked me - over nothing.

b.)I tried to help by offering a new bios and you say if you don't have the hardware personally, one shouldn't give advice. If so, this forum could not exist.

c.)Nobody that graduated from Cal Tech spells warranty "warenty". Trust me.

d.)If updating the bios has you scared to death, you are in the wrong hobby - take up golf .

e.) According to your posts, your mobo IS toast - you have nothing to lose.

f.) May God have mercy on your children, should you be so unfortunate to have some. (And everyone on the highway give this guy a wide berth - he's a wacko angry psycho)
 

Den

Member
Jan 11, 2000
168
0
0
a) Maybe you did not intend your tone as harsh and rude as I heard it, but saying you should not even bother to respond to me sounded very rude to me. I said I thought it was rude, and you told me I needed medication, called my educational background into question, etc. If that is not considered a flame I do not know what is.

b) I appreciate that you were trying to help originally, but I still think pointing someone to an undocumented bios on a foreign language sight is a pretty risky thing. I never said you had to have the same hardware to give advice, I said if you were the type of person who would put an undocumented beta bios that might be in a foreign language on your system, you were more into risk taking than I was. That is not really a problem, but you should certainly understand when others do not share your fairly extreme preferences.

c) Now you are calling me a liar as well, or at least implying as much. As I explained to you that I have a learning disability called Dyslexia which has as one of its traits or side effects poor spelling skills. Since spelling is apparently very important to you, I took the extra time to copy this into a spell checker before posting, maybe you can stop flaming now.

d) As I have said several times now, updating BIOS is fine, installing undocumented foreign language BIOS is riskier than I like to play. IMHO that makes me prudent, not a golfer (more flames from you).

e) My mobo is semi-stable with PC1066 set manually to 4x. It fails prime 95 between 10 min and 4 hours, and causes reboots or blue screens every several hours, this leaves the computer much more functional (at least over the short term) than an incorrect bios would (No POST or boot). When I install PC800 it runs just fine, Prime 95 torture test with no errors for 24 hours even at 140 FSB.

f) More pointless flames, I will not even bother providing the relevant facts as you would likely just imply I am a liar.

The way I see it you were rude, I called you on it, and rather than admit to it or tell me I had misinterpreted you, you launch into flames and personal attacks. I have said my piece, all further flames will be redirected to nul:

Oh yeah, here is another reason I am suspicious of the BIOS you are pointing to, the main ASUS website at asus.com.tw shows "P4T533-C Beta BIOS 1004.009 6/14/02" as being the latest beta BIOS for the P4T533-C. Note that is today's date (or yesterday's depending on where you are).
 

Terrapin

Member
Nov 12, 2000
163
0
0
Den:

Thank you for noticing and pointing that out.

I simply clicked on the link, and downloaded it, as it was an Asus site. Didn't even notice the rest until you mentioned it. Much appreciated.

Terrapin
 

Bozo Galora

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 1999
7,271
0
0

well, since you only have 28 posts here, maybe I can give you some tips on how to act normally in posting:

After I offer a link to a new bios that is hosted on the German ASUS bios site (that always gets bios before anyone) your reply should go as follows:

"thanks for the link Bozo, but I notice that it's on a German site. Does this mean that the bios wording in CMOS will be in that language? If so, I wouldn't want to try it as thats too far out for me"

Then you wouldn't have to jump out of your pants making all manner of wild assumptions - about both me and the bios.

Also, I am now curious as to your Master Degree from Caltech. I'll be heading over that way next week, could you please give me the title of your masters dissertation? I wouldn't need your name.
 

ManojM

Member
Feb 15, 2001
47
0
0
Whether you get the bios from Germany or from Taiwan it makes no difference.

It is not like if you download the bios from Taiwan, your CMOS languange will be in Chinese.

It makes no difference. Infact, all the bios are prepared from the Taiwan office.

 

Den

Member
Jan 11, 2000
168
0
0
You could have refrained from personal attacks, just because you have more posts than I do does not give you free reign to insult others. I was a little stressed and impatient, but you were the one to launch in with the personal attacks (flames). If a slight deviation from the standard way of posting makes personal attacks from others acceptable, I will not be around here much longer. Since you are so curious, here is the first page of my dissertation.

Simultaneous Move Adaptive Parties in Multidimensional Spatial Elections

Dan X. Xxxxxxx
Department of Humanities and Social Science
California Institute of Technology
(danxxx@cco.caltech.edu)


Abstract

I examine a multidimensional spatial model in which two candidates compete. Instead of the standard game theoretic model though, I model candidates (and their parties) as having limited poll information that they use to adaptively choose positions many times during the course of a campaign. The candidates adapt or move using a search algorithm that provides a good approximation of the ways that candidates actually behave in a real election. Therefore, my results help to give a more accurate description of reality and help to make better predictions than previous (non-computational) spatial models can.
Introduction
Ever since Anthony Downs (1957), the spatial model of elections has made an important contribution to our understanding of the political process. It is a model that is appealing because it is both simple and descriptive, and its use is widespread in political science. The basic idea of the spatial model is that a voter has a ?position? or ideal point on one or more issues or dimensions, and the closer policy is to this ideal point, the better off the voter is. For example the amount she thinks should be spent on defense or her standing on a general left to right, liberal to conservative scale. Since it is generally assumed that candidates will implement whatever platform they run on, and there are generally only 2 candidates, the voter can simply vote for the candidate that is closest to her (in weighted Euclidean distance). In the one-dimensional case, voting for the closest candidate is a very simple task, and if all of the voters behave in this way, the result is the outcome described in Black?s(1958) median voter theorem. Namely, each candidate uses the platform that is the median voter?s ideal point, and whichever candidate the median voter votes for will win (it is generally assumed that a voter randomly votes for a candidate if she is indifferent). Note that if either candidate moves away from the median voter?s ideal point, the other candidate will get more than half of the vote (the median voter with certainty now, and every voter on the side of the median that the other candidate is not), and win with certainty. This result does not describe what we see empirically very well. In the real world, candidates do not run on identical platforms, they have distinct positions on at least some issues.
When the spatial model is expanded to multiple issue dimensions it seems much more realistic, however, things become much more complicated. If the voters assume candidates report their true intended policy during the campaign, or if there is some enforcement mechanism to ensure campaign promises are implemented, then the voter still has a simple task, vote for the nearest candidate. The job of the candidate however is now much more complicated. The problem is, as Plott (1967) shows, there is no stable best point, that is no point that can not be defeated by some other point, unless all of the voters are perfectly radically balanced, which is a probability zero event. Indeed, McKelvey (1973) shows that the smallest set of points such that no point outside the set beats any point inside the set (the top cycle set) is the entire space.
There are several solutions to this problem. One is to assume that this is really the way the world works, and whoever sets their position first will lose the election because their opponent can just run on one of the points that defeats their chosen point. However, this also does not mach empirical evidence. The other is to impose a very tight set of assumptions that can prevent this from happening by guaranteeing a stable global maximum point. As mentioned earlier, Plott shows the assumption required is to assume all of the voters perfectly radially balanced. However, since this is in general a probability zero event, and even a tiny shift by any 1 of the voters can destroy the symmetry, this seems very unrealistic as a representation of the real world.
Another major problem with this version of the spatial model is that it assumes that the candidates have complete information about the preferences of every voter. They need this information to ensure that they can find a point to beat their opponent. Obviously, real politicians do not know the exact position of every voter on every issue, they only have the more limited (and inexact) information they can gather through polls, focus groups, previous elections, and other such sources.
The model I propose to use to study elections does not suffer from these same problems. It is derived from a model developed by Kollman, Miller, and Page who I will refer to hereafter as KMP. In the KMP model, voters have an ideal position on each issue that is chosen from a finite set of possible issue positions. Since voters preferences are linear, and candidates vote maximize, this is so far exactly like Kramer?s Dynamical model. However, KMP add polls to the model. That is candidates can not automatically find a point that beats their opponent, instead they have a limited number of polls to try to find a better point
This model, and computational models in general, is also solved in a fundamentally different way. Instead of deriving a result and its properties, one is instead simulated computationally. This means that the model can be much more complicated and use more realistic assumptions, but still yield strong results and predictions. This computer simulation approach has been used widely in other fields of science, particularly in Physics and Biology, and is beginning to be used more in Political Science and Economics.
This type of computational modeling allows me to create a more realistic version of the spatial model. Instead of saying that candidates have full knowledge of voters positions or are uncertain about voter?s positions in some probabilistic way, I can model the candidates as having limited resources and information. This means that instead of seeing the true distribution of voters , or the true distribution through some uncertainty function, candidates see only the positions of voters that they have the time and the resources to poll. In my election model, candidates compete in a spatial framework where they poll voters to obtain information, and then adjust their position to try to win election. This dynamic process is repeated over many elections to search for consistent results. The voter?s job is still the same, they vote for whichever candidate is the closest to them. In the next section, I will define the model more exactly.
 

Den

Member
Jan 11, 2000
168
0
0
You are welcome. I may try the 0009 one since that is documented and on the main sight. Or I may just wait until Monday or Tuesday, if it is simply a matter of Europe getting it before the other sights, it should be on the main sight by then. I really wonder if it is my MB (the rambus frequency generators or whatever those parts are called that all the overclockers were talking about) because it is solid as a rock with PC800 even when slightly overclocked to 140 FSB. Also, with the PC1066, when it was much cooler at night (65 or so in the room instead of 78) it ran stable (prime 95 for 12 hours). I don't think my case temperature is too high, I have 4 case fans plus an Antec 2 fan power supply, and the case temp only runs about 89 when the room temp is 78. ANyone think that is too high? The 850e main chip has a heatsink, and it feels fairly warm but not uncomfortably hot to touch, same with the RDRAM.

Originally posted by: Terrapin
Den:

Thank you for noticing and pointing that out.

I simply clicked on the link, and downloaded it, as it was an Asus site. Didn't even notice the rest until you mentioned it. Much appreciated.

Terrapin

 

Terrapin

Member
Nov 12, 2000
163
0
0
Originally posted by: Bozo Galora

After I offer a link to a new bios that is hosted on the German ASUS bios site (that always gets bios before anyone) your reply should go as follows:

"thanks for the link Bozo, but I notice that it's on a German site. Does this mean that the bios wording in CMOS will be in that language? If so, I wouldn't want to try it as thats too far out for me"

Then you wouldn't have to jump out of your pants making all manner of wild assumptions - about both me and the bios.

Den:

As one that is unbiased (no pun intended), in this argument, and truly appreciate both of your feedback, in reading over the posts, Bozo is right. Step back for a moment and look at the sequence of posts.

Bozo attempts to help us out by offering a link to the most recent bios for this board; after which...

DEN SAYS: In German? No thanks, I have enough problems without that.

BOZO SAYS: er.... should I even answer this?

DEN SAYS: Is that your obnoxious way of telling me..... You are very brave with other people's hardware.

After that last remark is when the flames between you two began. Den, if you can be objective and look at who started what, it's obvious your the one that lit the match.

As far as number of posts; no they don't necessarily qualify a persons knowledge or intelligence. On the other hand, a Diamond Member of this forum, as Bozo is, obviously has participated in helping on numerious discussions and those contributions I'm certain have been appreciated by a great number of people here. I think some respect is warranted, not because of his number of posts, but because of what all those posts represent.

I'm a newbie compared to most of the folks here, and appreciate any advice I get, so posts from each of you grabed my attention. I think it is prudent to assume that when a person offers a suggestion, they are doing so in an honest attempt to help, and not to hurt someone else or put their equipment at risk. Den; your assumption about Bozo's motives were totally off base. Instead of assuming he is just bring brave with anothers hardware, why not simply express your concerns in a manner condusive to discussion, and not arguments? Take a breath Den, and think about it and the actual sequence of events before you continue with your diatrob.

Respectfully,

Terrapin
 

MarthaStewart

Junior Member
May 29, 2002
14
0
0
I may be a newbie, but i do realize when a bunch of peeps are off subject lol, can you guys tell me in laymans terms (yes or no) if pc1066rdram works with this mobo if i were to buy it from a common mans retailer?

thanks
 

Den

Member
Jan 11, 2000
168
0
0
Maybe right away, and almost certainly eventually (which is yes with qualifications ).

If it has the original release bios (i.e. you buy it soon, not several months from now), many but not all people were having problems with it being able to detect the PC1066 automatically. Symptoms included failed POST's (varying percentages of the time), incredibly slow posts (5 full minutes), etc. The fix (if you can get it to POST at least once which most could) is go into the BIOSand change the RDRAM multiplier to 4x (for PC1066) instead of auto. Also, the more recent beta BIOS'sappear to fix this as well (works with auto or 4x or 3x). If you happen to have PC800 around this makes it easy, you can put in the PC800, go to BIOS, change it to 4x, shutdown, put in the PC1066 and away you go...

Let me know if this is clear or I need to explain in more detail.

Originally posted by: MarthaStewart
I may be a newbie, but i do realize when a bunch of peeps are off subject lol, can you guys tell me in laymans terms (yes or no) if pc1066rdram works with this mobo if i were to buy it from a common mans retailer?

thanks

 

Big Lar

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 1999
6,330
0
76
I must admit, that I did not read all 4 pages of this thread, but I havta say this: I run the P4T533-C, and I havn't had Problem 1. I am also using the Mushkin PC10666 off thier site, and didn't have any boot probs at all. Like I said, I havn't read the whole thread, but I do have the rev.1.03 board, and the 1003 bios, if that helps anyone.
 

Den

Member
Jan 11, 2000
168
0
0
Thanks Lar, that's good info. I am not sure what percent of users have had problems (You mostly hear about the problems here not the sucesses) But I now know 2 with no problems, 2 with problems that were worked around (a la my last post), and me whose MB is now complete toast and being RMA'ed tomorrow

I will let you all know how it goes this time around.
 

VSEKH

Member
Jun 10, 2002
151
0
0
I could not resist this motherboard. I received my P4T533-C motherboard yesterday and a pair of 256 MB Samsung PC1066 memory chips. I plugged in my motherboard and plugged in everything. First thing I noticed was the Onboard AGP Warning LED went on. I believe this light goes on when a video card is installed that is not running at 1.5 Volts. This was the same Visiontek TI4600 that did not work in the Asus P4S533 motherboard. Anyways, the system would not power on. I took this card out and put my old Radeon 8500 in and everything came up. What is it with these Visiontek TI4600 cards? I recall when this was plugged into my Epox 4G4a system, the AGP voltage was reporting 1.6 Volts on boot up, but in the bios there was no increase setup for the AGP voltage. It looks like the Asus boards are not adjusting to the voltage that the video card is requiring and there is not setting in the bios to adjust the AGP voltage.

I tried to set the Rambus frequency to 4x and Turbo, but on bootup of XP, it locks. I set it back to AUTO and everything is fine. I installed the beta 1004.010 bios. Now if I set the frequency to 4x and reboot the system, the motherboard says that I have 64 MB loaded. I tried to load WinXP, but I get a stop: 0x0000007E caused by MUP.sys. I set the frequency back to AUTO, but left the Turbo on. The system boots up fine. I know these are real Samsung PC1066 chips because I looked up the part number on Samsung's website and it does say that these are PC1066 chips. Not sure why I can set the frequency to 4x. Anyone know a utility that I can use to check to see if the motherboard automatically set this to PC1066 mode?

I played Quake III and had great frame rates, but I bet they would be better if the TI4600 was installed. I happy with this setup except that I can't set the Rambus frequency to 4x(might need to wait for more bios updates). The P4 2.53 takes full advantage of the memory. The Intel onboard Nic is great and much better than the Realtek nic on the P4S533, which was really slow(connected to my DSL router). This setup is much better for me than the Epox 4g4a system.
 
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