ASUS rebels against Intel, adds Devil Canyon support to Z87 boards

[MentalIlness]

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/38131...devil-canyon-support-to-z87-boards/index.html

Intel's Devil's Canyon CPUs are the next thing to be excited about, but most thought they would require an upgraded motherboard for the new to work - an upgrade to Z97. Well, that isn't the case for ASUS at least.

ASUS has pushed back at Intel, providing support for Devil's Canyon-based CPUs on its Z87 something that was posted on the XtremeSystems forums.

The post says: "Most, if not all of their Z87 boards have received a BIOS update allowing the use of Intel's devil canyon processors. This is also backed up on their Cpu support lists".

This is a good thing for owners of Z87-based motherboards who were waiting on the new CPUs, or would like to upgrade to the new CPUs, without having to upgrade to a new motherboard. Especially when you may have plunked down $400+ on a high-end board.

 

[Homeles]

Sounds kind of similar to Bulldozer support on AM3 boards... no technical reason why they couldn't work, but AMD didn't support it. The motherboard vendors allowed it anyway. You probably wouldn't be eligible for support and RMA services in case your processor had errors or needed replacement, but that's a pretty small risk.

 

[zir_blazer]

Yesterday news.

These are some VERY interesing news. If you look other ASUS Motherboards, even H87 have beta BIOSes for Devil's Canyon support - or basically, any Haswell Motherboard should support it. I didn't saw other manufacturers claiming support, but time will tell.


Now, the issues comes that most of the info from Intel is pretty contradictory. Before Z97 launch, we were told that Haswell Refresh and Broadwell would need new Motherboards because there was some change in the voltage delivery system, or something around those lines. At that moment, Devil's Canyon existence was unknown.
Haswell Refresh ended up being IDENTICAL to Haswell, and capable of working on old Motherboards without even a BIOS update. Devil's Canyon appeared on the map just before Haswell Refresh launch, and Intel said they needed the new Chipset too. Now I think than the original "Haswell Refresh" morphed into Devil's Canyon and Haswell Refresh was used for what we already saw. But if Devil's Canyon got the changed voltage delivery system and STILL works on first generation Haswell Motherboards, you can begin to speculate that Broadwell could end up working with them, too.

 

[zir_blazer]

Double Post, delete this.

 

[Deders]

Something worth noting though is that apparently it's been easier to push a 4770K even higher on Z97 than on Z87 boards, according to reviewers.

Would be interesting to see if the same clocks can be achieved on both chipsets.

 

[PG]

Thank you Asus. I just updated my Z87 Gryphon that I got from Craigslist last week.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Something worth noting though is that apparently it's been easier to push a 4770K even higher on Z97 than on Z87 boards, according to reviewers.

Would be interesting to see if the same clocks can be achieved on both chipsets.

Are you sure? I cant find a link, but I recall seeing a comment that overclocking was about the same with either chipset for 4770k.

 

[PPB]

Sounds kind of similar to Bulldozer support on AM3 boards... no technical reason why they couldn't work, but AMD didn't support it. The motherboard vendors allowed it anyway. You probably wouldn't be eligible for support and RMA services in case your processor had errors or needed replacement, but that's a pretty small risk.

It isnt the same, as (and here comes ASUS again) only the higher end AM3 boards made by asus were built with all the 940 working pins (same as AM3+) instead of the AM3's 938 (both sockets sport the same qty. of physical pins tho).

The AM3 case is the same as the LGA1156 to 1155 from Intel with the Asrock Transformer. Here with DC's SKUs the qty. of working pins are the same, they do exactly the same job as they did on vanilla Haswell because it actually is the same socket.

And sadly, just like it happened with H87's actually being able to overclock, Intel with force them to drop the support for Haswell refresh SKUs on 87 series motherboards.

 

[Techhog]

Did Intel ever say that Devil's Canyon was 9-series only in the first place?

 

[Pheesh]

Did Intel ever say that Devil's Canyon was 9-series only in the first place?

nope, only that it was for sure supported by 9 series. I'm sure theres some z87 boards that can support any new electrical requirements, but some may not.

 

[Deders]

Are you sure? I cant find a link, but I recall seeing a comment that overclocking was about the same with either chipset for 4770k.

I checked out a lot of reviews when these boards started appearing and some of the reviewers (the ones that bothered to go above 4.5) that they were able to push the same chip that they used for testing higher on the new boards than they could on the old ones.

 

[coercitiv]

I checked out a lot of reviews when these boards started appearing and some of the reviewers (the ones that bothered to go above 4.5) that they were able to push the same chip that they used for testing higher on the new boards than they could on the old ones.

Does that necessarily mean it is the chipset making the difference?

 

[Deders]

Does that necessarily mean it is the chipset making the difference?

Most likely the power delivery, I believe they were able to use less voltage but I'd have to double check.

 

[PG]

And sadly, just like it happened with H87's actually being able to overclock, Intel with force them to drop the support for Haswell refresh SKUs on 87 series motherboards.

How? I guess Asus could put out another BIOS update that removed support, but if you get the bios to support the refresh cpus and then flash it you are set. Just don't flash again and you would be fine right?

 

[TeknoBug]

Sounds kind of similar to Bulldozer support on AM3 boards... no technical reason why they couldn't work, but AMD didn't support it. The motherboard vendors allowed it anyway. You probably wouldn't be eligible for support and RMA services in case your processor had errors or needed replacement, but that's a pretty small risk.

I must be missing something here, I didn't know FX chips can work on AM3 sockets, that's 2 missing pins.

But I do remember people using Ivy Bridge CPU's in Z68 boards (meant for Sandy Bridge). So what's the big deal about the Z87 supporting Devi's Canyon?

 

[Techhog]

I must be missing something here, I didn't know FX chips can work on AM3 sockets, that's 2 missing pins.

But I do remember people using Ivy Bridge CPU's in Z68 boards (meant for Sandy Bridge). So what's the big deal about the Z87 supporting Devi's Canyon?

I honestly assumed that Devil's Canyon partially came about because Broadwell-K would be the 9-series only CPU...

 

[Bubbleawsome]

Rumor says MSI is doing this too.

 

[kimmel]

So what's the big deal about the Z87 supporting Devi's Canyon?

It makes for a flashy headline as if Asus is "sticking it to the man" instead of adding expected support.

 

[Skott]

Is ASUS rebelling? Does Intel even care? If it sells more cpus I doubt Intel cares.

 

[blackened23]

I don't know if this can be relied on. Intel can simply update the microcode on their CPUs to prevent this if they so chose, and as I understand it Z97 has different power delivery mechanisms designed for DC.

I like what asus is doing here, but similar to overclocking on the H85 which lasted for like....3 weeks....don't count on it. Newer CPU revisions can simply update the microcode to prevent it, and if Z97 has different power delivery mechanisms it isn't hard to imagine that would happen. The H85 overclocking offered by many vendors lasted 3 weeks before it went away. Remember how ASrock, asus, and all the others updated their H85 boards to support multiplier overclocking? That didn't last long. Updated CPU microcode. So I wouldn't count on it if you have a Z87.

 

[OCGuy]

Hopefully Asrock and others will follow. Good news for consumers w/ Z87

 

[VirtualLarry]

What I don't get is why Intel is so against easy upgradability. It sells more CPUs. (Oh, that's right, Intel are greedy bastards, and they want to sell both a CPU and a new overpriced PCH chip too.)

 

[OCGuy]

What I don't get is why Intel is so against easy upgradability. It sells more CPUs. (Oh, that's right, Intel are greedy bastards, and they want to sell both a CPU and a new overpriced PCH chip too.)

Any confirmation that the headline isn't just yellow journalism?

Who would benefit the most by requiring mobo upgrades? Who needs to force obsolescence in mobos in order to stay alive? It isn't Intel.

 

[blackened23]

What I don't get is why Intel is so against easy upgradability. It sells more CPUs. (Oh, that's right, Intel are greedy bastards, and they want to sell both a CPU and a new overpriced PCH chip too.)

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The power delivery mechanisms between Z87 and Z97 are very real. If that's a pre-requisite towards DC, then I can see the need for Z97. But it could be that it could work on Z87 just fine.

We simply do not know. But we will have a more clear picture once the CPU, you know, actually launches. Intel has not commented on chipset compatibility as of yet, we just have tidbits from motherboard manufacturers. It might work on Z87. It might not. Apparently, asus was able to get it working on Z87. The complexity in getting it to work on Z87 is that the motherboard manufacturer actually has to modify the BIOS microcode above and beyond what intel provides, and then the motherboard manufactuer has to validate it themsleves. If there's any error on the process (as explained by JJ) it is entirely on the mobo maker and not on intel. But then again, intel might allow it. Don't know yet. I suspect it will have a lot to do with how the power delivery mechanism differences come into play with DC, this is, again, something we don't know yet.

As far as intel being "greedy" , whatever man. Personifying a corporation as evil, good, holy, or greedy is the height of stupidity. Corporations exist to earn money for shareholders as a lawful duty. Period. There is no good, evil, greedy, or whatever else you want to personify a for-profit corporation as. There are corporations that suck at making money, and those who do it well. The corporations that are good at making money tend to outlast the ones who suck at making money. The ones good at money making deliver value to shareholders, the ones who don't are rather worthless to shareholders. End of story.

 

[Skott]

I would guess only a hand full of Z87 mobos can or will be upgradable. Just certain models. Most of the mobo manufacturers will want you to buy a new mobo so they can make money too.