Asus Rog Swift PG278Q

[bystander36]

Yah, I have never heard of such a thing, but then I haven't heard a lot of first hand experience. I'd like to know as an SLI user.

 

[kasakka]

I'm seeing occasional anecdotes that several games still crash when G-Sync is combined with SLI. If accurate, a little worrying, as there's perhaps greater need for multi-gpu support at this higher resolution

Never seen this. Running 2x GTX770 in SLI and haven't seen any crashes. Might be related to specific games or something.

That said, the current Nvidia drivers do have bugs with this display. I often find 144 Hz setting goes missing, ULMB becomes unavailable or 60 Hz results in "out of range" error. The fix is to disconnect and reconnect the display. Apparently a driver update is on the way.

 

[BrightCandle]

Never seen this. Running 2x GTX770 in SLI and haven't seen any crashes. Might be related to specific games or something.

That said, the current Nvidia drivers do have bugs with this display. I often find 144 Hz setting goes missing, ULMB becomes unavailable or 60 Hz results in "out of range" error. The fix is to disconnect and reconnect the display. Apparently a driver update is on the way.

That isn't good news, its this sort of rubbish that really annoys me. Especially considering how long they have had to get this right!

Mine is delayed until the 28th August, a few more delays and Freesync monitor would probably arrive earlier than my gsync one!

 

[know of fence]

Mine is delayed until the 28th August, a few more delays and Freesync monitor would probably arrive earlier than my gsync one!

Maybe not freesync, but at least one 24" G-sync model has finally become available (AOC G2460PG), though at 450 EUR / 340 GBP they ask 3x the price of a normal 24" TN, though it's still cheaper than buying a 780 ti or two to run 2K @ 120 FPS.

 

[96Firebird]

That AOC model looks cost about twice as much as it's non-Gsync alternative...

 

[jackstar7]

Another review went up today: http://techreport.com/review/26870/asus-rog-swift-pg278q-g-sync-monitor-reviewed

Sounds positive. Hope to see nV make it worth switching when the 8xx-series shows up.

 

[Aikouka]

Out of all the reviews/previews/overviews that I've seen, one of the niftier "small things" about this monitor has to be its turn-on time. I'm pretty sure everyone has run into that time when they just needed to turn their monitor on real quick to look up something before they have to leave, and it's taking ages!

 

[Flapdrol1337]

I think aoc is a bit optimistic, pricing their 1080p screen at 2/3 of the swift.

ah well, their non gsync screen went from 350 to 250 eu in a year, they'll probably sell a lot more when it's closer to 400.

 

[thedosbox]

I'm sorely tempted to get one of those Asus Swifts once I'm no longer travelling for work.

 

[AdamK47]

I'm very interested in G-Sync. It's too bad it's not available on a higher quality panel.

 

[Mand]

I'm very interested in G-Sync. It's too bad it's not available on a higher quality panel.

The Swift has a very high quality panel.

 

[blackened23]

I'm very interested in G-Sync. It's too bad it's not available on a higher quality panel.

Reviews indicate that it is a high quality panel. Not all TN's are created equal, and the fact of the matter is that IPS cannot match the responsiveness and less ghosting that TN's are capable of.

Basically, IPS gives you one of two things. #1, better viewing angles, #2, better color accuracy thanks to options for 8 or 10 bit color (10 bit only available on workstations with quadro or firepro cards). #2 is not applicable to the swift. It is an 8 bit panel with the full range of colors. Viewing angles? Yeah, but I don't see anyone playing games at 1440p at off center viewing. I certainly don't. Now the problem with TN's is that the lower spectrum of TN use the worst electronics possible in an effort to lower costs. Some IPS do the same but to a far lesser extent. There are bad IPS panels, and some of the newer TN (high res) panels seem to be higher quality.

I like IPS panels, but it's just a fact that IPS cannot match TN in terms of having less ghosting from fast motion. JJ from Asus actually discussed this a while back and he specifically mentioned that the electronics of IPS are incapable of being as responsive or ghost free as TN. Now i'm aware that some TN panels are crap, but it sounds like this one is pretty good. Linus from linustechtips is an IPS junkie just like you and he commented on how great the panel looked, the caveat being viewing angles. Unless you're doing surround I don't see that being an issue. I can see it being an issue for a professional video editor in a working type of environment, maybe, IPS would be a better fit for them.

Anyway, i'm kind of in between. I like IPS but motion fluidity is definitely better with lightboost. The problem with other, older lightboost panels (not the Swift) is that the quality is lacking and it shows (thinking of the Asus 24 incher here) but in gaming you don't notice. The Swift doesn't share this problem from the reviews I've read. It sounds like it is a much higher quality TN, with a full 8 bit panel but just has inherently worse viewing angles. Big deal? I dunno. Unless you're viewing off center while gaming, I don't see how it can be, but it could be for some. I don't plan on buying the swift, but it sounds pretty tempting. Probably will wait a few months and see what other options come up.

I think the best bet in this situation is just wait a while and see what other options may pop up. There is nothing (from what i've read) preventing g-sync from being applied to IPS. However, TN's are just inherently better at what a lot of gamers want. Ie, super high refresh with less ghosting in motion. Maybe g-sync can be applied to one of those overclockable IPS panels? I very seriously doubt ULMB would work on IPS, but maybe that'll happen down the road. Shrug.

 

[jackstar7]

Given that Overlord was/is in talks with nV to develop a g-sync model, I wouldn't count out the idea of an IPS G-sync potentially with 120Hz as an option. With proper backing and R&D, there have to be folks trying to engineer that kind of panel. And if not IPS, then VA. While TN has advantages for FPS gaming, more options would certainly be better for everyone.

 

[blackened23]

True. I think Overlord even stated that g-sync was possible on their panels, but i'm not sure if that's in the works.

However, I don't think any IPS panel is capable of low motion blur technology such as lightboost or ULMB. That might not be a sticking point for some, though. But if you see the difference lightboost/ULMB makes, it is tremendous. I think this is a big selling point for the ROG swift - if you've seen lightboost, it really is a game changer if you have a game with super high framerates. (while g-sync covers lower framerates) Very noticeable difference. The only thing I don't like is that it [lightboost] lowers brightness a lot when lightboost is active but on the swift you can switch from ULMB to normal with a button press.

Wouldn't mind seeing it in action, although i'm hesitant in buying the swift just yet.

 

[Mand]

Overlord stated that they were highly interested, but that they were later in the queue as far as getting Nvidia's engineers to help them with it. Which is understandable, given the relative sizes of people like Asus and Acer versus Overlord.

That was in January, though, I haven't heard anything new from Overlord yet.

 

[BrightCandle]

Based on the models of monitors we have today in TN and IPS I put it the following way:
1) IPS has a wider colour gamut, has higher bit depth and also tends to have more accurate colour on an image that isn't changing. However in motion the colour accuracy is worse.
2) TN has a narrower colour gamut often below sRGB (but the Swift is sRGB 99% covered), has 8 bit colour with 10 bit FRC, so lower than the best IPS but the same as IPS monitors gamers buy and has worse accuracy in a static image, although the swift also breaks the normal as its dV is IPS levels. Its colour accuracy in motion is significantly better. Motion is further improved by the higher supported refresh rates.

Simply put - when looking at a still scene in a game the IPS monitor has more accurate and vibrant colour, when in motion the TN screen has the more accurate colour and is more vibrant. You do have to ask yourself whether your picture editting (stills) or looking at moving images (games) the most to choose between the two technologies at a broad level.

But the swift is kind of special, because its 8 bit and because its colour gamut is sRGB and its dV is really good its almost as good as an sRGB IPS monitor in colour, and in motion it will be a lot lot better. Its not as simple as its a TN screen and those wanting more still image quality should wait for the IPS, because the only drawback of TN the Swift still has is the off centre colour shifts, and if you look at the pictures taken on techreport and tftcentral you'll see its an exceptional TN in that regard as well.

 

[Mand]

1) IPS has a wider colour gamut

This isn't an absolute, and it's unrelated to IPS as a technology. The Swift equals or beats several IPS displays on color gamut, as being true 8-bit it's up there with the rest of them.

The real reason everyone has the "TN is awful" thing in mind is that for a really long time, if you were going to make a crappy panel, you made a TN panel. TN is cheaper, and so when you're going for cheap and crappy, you go TN. You can't really justify crappy IPS, because it's way more expensive even when making something crappy. Good TN is not crappy TN, though, and it is more expensive than crappy TN.

There are a few physics-related reasons why TN and IPS differ on an inherent level, but color accuracy isn't fundamental to the tech of either. Color accuracy as a function of viewing angle most certainly is, but that's a separate technical issue.

 

[Grooveriding]

Yeah the swift is good for reducing your perceived level of motion blur if you are sensitive to it, but it is still TN and many reviews have said as much. It still suffers the washed-out grainy image quality inherent to TN along with the shifting and screen door effect you get from the poor viewing angles.

Several reviews have touched on the fact with the size of the monitor there is visible shift simply sitting in front of it. This is what is overlooked, you can stick your calibrator on the monitor, which covers an extremely small portion of the screen dead on, and receive good results. In actual use when you are viewing the screen in its totality you will have poor image quality and lackluster colour reproduction because of the shifting and banding from the poor viewing angle of the screen.

I think this is a decent screen for a gamers who only care about blur and fast response times, but I see that as mostly a small niche to have one affectation to such a degree. More so given the price. This showed up at in Canada recently for $899. I think Asus is gauging consumers swept away on gsync hype, since this is the first monitor to come with support for it. Up until now you could only mod a monitor with the kit and void your warranty.

For $899 you can get the Dell 27" IPS 1440p Ultrasharp, which blows the swift right out of the water apart from responsiveness if you are sensitive to it. For the quality of image delivered, that Dell will make the swift look like a turd.

The holy grail is going to be when we get a 120hz IPS with gysnc/adaptive sync, too many compromises inherent to TN with the swift that just can't be rectified. Once a 120hz IPS arrives with some form of adaptive refresh rate, the fast response of a TN won't be enough to overcome the quality of that IPS screen unless you are incredibly susceptible to perceived blur.

 

[jackstar7]

Was going to post in the Freesync before the lock:

I have to say, that I'm anxious to see what ToastyX can do with g-sync/freesync/etc.

His work in giving Lightboost to everyone gives me hope that he (or someone similarly inspired) will be able to liberate these new features.

 

[96Firebird]

For $899 you can get the Dell 27" IPS 1440p Ultrasharp, which blows the swift right out of the water apart from responsiveness if you are sensitive to it. For the quality of image delivered, that Dell will make the swift look like a turd.

For static images, sure. For fast-paced gaming, no.

 

[know of fence]

Given that Overlord was/is in talks with nV to develop a g-sync model, I wouldn't count out the idea of an IPS G-sync potentially with 120Hz as an option. With proper backing and R&D, there have to be folks trying to engineer that kind of panel. And if not IPS, then VA. While TN has advantages for FPS gaming, more options would certainly be better for everyone.

People push IPS past 60 Hz, because among other things it helps cut down latency. Even at a low frame rate, the frames appear on average ~8.3 ms earlier on screen. Still with slower IPS response times ghosting should get worse, because instead of one ghost (of the previous frame, at 120 Hz there appear 2 ghosts now). That is assuming the pixel transition time is (16.6 ms). In other words if the G2G is the time a ghosts sticks around on the screen, doubling the refresh rates doubles the overall ghost times. People overclocking the Overlord may actually worsen the visual quality to get the other benefits of high frame-rates.

Basically 120Hz monitors have two major advantages, lower latency and lower jitter (perceived blur) but G-sync replaces one of these advantages.

G-sync even up to 60 Hz makes sense and would make sense for an IPS panel, and furthermore there shouldn't be a technical problem, as there is already a 60 Hz G-sync model announced (albeit 4K TN).

This is not in nVidia interest however, even though Sync'ed 60Hz IPS may be the best achievable LCD picture quality compromise (better than 120Hz IPS).

 

[Mand]

For static images, sure. For fast-paced gaming, no.

This.

Your color accuracy goes down with motion on an IPS due to temporal blurring.

 

[Grooveriding]

I find the large differences in opinion on what appears blurry fairly interesting. I use an IPS and don't see any blur and the one game genre where you would expect blur to actually even be a problem because of its fast paced nature; fps games - is also one where I don't see any blur. I definitely notice more fluid motion at 120hz than 60hz, but I don't see more or less blur using one or the other. Then on the other hand you have individuals who would see blur in that case and then those who wouldn't.

It's an interesting difference. I wonder if the increased susceptibility to perceived blur is a difference in brain activity and its ability to process the input from the eyes, a difference that for those susceptible can be overcome by a faster monitor. This would of been something interesting to explore in school.

There are definite advantages to a high refresh rate though, you get more updates to the screen in the same amount of time so you will see actions taking place in the game more quickly than someone at 60hz. Sitting down to game and having a blurry view as a result of a slower refresh rate and/or response time apparently is not a universal experience though and is down to an individual's personal susceptibilities.

 

[96Firebird]

Yup, we're all different. The same can be said for all other senses.

Last night I was doing some photo editing on my crappy TN screen, and the color shift was so bad I found myself checking prices on Dell IPS monitors...

 

[Mand]

It's not differences in opinion so much as differences in perception. Humans as a population have a fairly consistent physiological response to most of these factors, but how you perceive what you're seeing is something else entirely. Take matte vs glossy for example, I absolutely hate glossy screens because of the reflections. But this is mostly because I'm an optical engineer, and trained to use reflections in order to do alignment of components. Analyzing which faint reflection moves in what direction when I adjust something is something I have to do on a regular basis - and that increased amount of attention means that the reflections that come from glossy screens jump out immediately to me. My eyes aren't more sensitive to the reflections than yours are, but my brain is.

This effect happens in just about every category you can think of, from color to blur to flicker to tearing to stutter. The only thing we can do is accurately describe how the tech actually affects things, and then let people figure out for themselves where their preferences lie.

It's why I won't ever criticize someone for their choice of IPS vs TN, but I will criticize them for generalizing their preference into some absolute inherent to the technology.