Asus Rog Swift PG278Q

[3DVagabond]

I believe ULMB can be set to either 85 Hz, 100 Hz, or 120 Hz on the ROG Swift. So if you can keep steady framerates around one of those marks then stroboscopic mode gaming is amazing.

If, while in strobing mode, you're getting too much tearing or stutters/un-smoothness due to not running V-Sync, in-consistent framerates, framerates with too much variance, etc. etc. Then use G-Sync and non strobing mode instead. G-Sync works amazing for any framerate between 30 (or was the minimum 20?) and about 144. The reviewer that mentioned G-Sync working best in the 40-60 fps range clearly has no idea what he's talking about and shouldn't be making such misleading statements. You can get tearing, stutters/general un-smoothness at any fps - going from 137 fps to 131 to 122 to 144 can cause tearing, and/or stutters/general un-smoothness, in-fact, I even get tearing when I frame-limit my game to my monitors refresh and run that very fps (V-Sync disabled) - GSync will take care of all of that. GSync is just as beneficial at higher framerates (under 144) as it is in the 40-80 range.

That reviewer's comment has made some people (not just in this forum) think that GSync is hardly any use at higher framerates and, as I explained above, that's complete B.S. and a very "amateurish" thing to say, and it makes the reviewer sound like he not only does not know anything about monitors, but has little to no actual gaming experience, AKA stupid comments like that make him sound like a noob.

Seems kind of silly to spend $800 for a 144Hz Gsync monitor and then turn Gsync off. There is an expensive premium attached to this feature.

 

[BrightCandle]

I don't really see how you could have ulmb and gsync at the same time. You wouldn't know how long the strobe needs to be and when because you don't have information on when the next frame is. I don't think its really viable to have both. It's a shame because it's hugely beneficial, but even at 1080p I rarely have the performance to use it.

 

[3DVagabond]

I don't really see how you could have ulmb and gsync at the same time. You wouldn't know how long the strobe needs to be and when because you don't have information on when the next frame is. I don't think its really viable to have both. It's a shame because it's hugely beneficial, but even at 1080p I rarely have the performance to use it.

Well since it can be set at different frequencies it should be possible to vary it dynamically. It would somehow need to be directly tied to the refresh rate, I imagine.

 

[Pottuvoi]

I don't really see how you could have ulmb and gsync at the same time. You wouldn't know how long the strobe needs to be and when because you don't have information on when the next frame is. I don't think its really viable to have both. It's a shame because it's hugely beneficial, but even at 1080p I rarely have the performance to use it.

Well, the display knows how long it displayed the previous frames.
It should be possible to vary the min/max strobe time according to that.

 

[BrightCandle]

But let's say you had 1 frame that was 30 hz (33.3ms) and the next was 144hz (6ms) then the strobe for the 30hz may very well be longer than the entire frame of 144hz. You can't predict future frame length based on previous ones and strobing requires that you know the length for which the existing frame is displayed to determine strobe length.

Actually there is another concern I have with ulmb and gsync combined. Assuming they did do it the strobe length would be variable and that changing in the flashing would probably be very noticeable and distracting. Evenly spaced strobes aren't a problem, but an effectively random flashing might not be very nice to look at.

 

[Flapdrol1337]

yeah, they'd have to slowly fade in strobing above 85 fps or something.

 

[Mand]

So, when do you sacrifice ULMB for Gsync and vice versa?

If your minimum framerate is 144 Hz or higher, use ULMB. If it's lower, use G-Sync.

I don't think the people saying they're going to run ULMB at 85 or 100 Hz really understand just how big of an impact not having tearing or stutter is going to have, nor do they really seem to be taking into consideration that every game will have framerate drops that will cause it. G-Sync eliminates the secondary problems framerate drops cause.

 

[Black Octagon]

If your minimum framerate is 144 Hz or higher, use ULMB. If it's lower, use G-Sync.

You mean 120Hz (ULMB is not available at 144Hz according to TFTCentral's review)

To be more precise, you mean 120fps if talking about framerate. Hz refers to the monitor's refresh rate

 

[Mand]

No, I meant 144, because that's the limit of G-Sync's function.

ULMB only works well when the GPU is putting out frames at constant intervals. I suppose you could make an argument that if your minimum is above 120 you could put in a framerate limiter to keep it at 120, and then use ULMB, but I still think G-Sync will have advantages. I just don't believe 120 Hz at 1440p is ever going to be as rock-solid steady as people think it is, even with SLI configurations. That, and you'll still have tearing with ULMB, something I personally can't tolerate.

Hz can be used to describe both refresh rate and frame rate, though I do agree that fps is used more often.

 

[Black Octagon]

Mark Rejhon (from Blur Busters) has been advising that for maintained 'triple digit' frame rates you are better off using ULMB / equivalent blur reduction modes than you are from using G-Sync.

I take your point about GPU grunt needed at 2560x1440 but don't assume that we all game on Max. I always adjust my settings to whatever is necessary to achieve a consistent 120fps (or rather, 90-120fps as I don't have a monitor with a fancy backlight)

 

[bystander36]

Seems kind of silly to spend $800 for a 144Hz Gsync monitor and then turn Gsync off. There is an expensive premium attached to this feature.

You are paying for many things, not just G-sync. One of the features of the G-sync monitor is to prevent ULMB from looking washed out as all other Lightboost/Strobing monitors have done in the past. Due to reasons I don't fully understand, having pulsing backlight causes the colors to look different than if they were left on and it changes at different refresh rates. The G-sync module also corrects the color with ULMB on.

As far as which I'd prefer, I'm not sure until I have one to test out. Going ULMB with V-sync adds latency and I hate latency. It gives me motion sickness, so there is a good chance I would always choose G-sync.

 

[Mand]

Mark Rejhon (from Blur Busters) has been advising that for maintained 'triple digit' frame rates you are better off using ULMB / equivalent blur reduction modes than you are from using G-Sync.

I take your point about GPU grunt needed at 2560x1440 but don't assume that we all game on Max. I always adjust my settings to whatever is necessary to achieve a consistent 120fps (or rather, 90-120fps as I don't have a monitor with a fancy backlight)

The thing is, with G-Sync you can afford to drop the FPS by turning on the flashy stuff. Maybe don't go totally nuts with EXXXXXXTREMEAA settings, but just about everything else you'll get great bang for your framerate buck.

So the question doesn't become 100 Hz ULMB or 100 Hz G-Sync, it might be 100 Hz ULMB or 80-90 Hz G-Sync but with higher image quality settings, no tearing, and no stuttering due to framerate drops in heavy workload areas.

 

[bystander36]

@Black Octagon:

You mentioned before you had one of those Samsung 120hz monitors (forget exact model) which I recall as being HD3D. If so, do you still have that monitor? It did have the ability to hack the strobe light on in 2D. That would be a good way to see first hand if you would like ULMB or not. While not as good as the G-sync ULMB, it would still be pretty good (the G-sync version fixes the washed out colors while ULMB is on).

http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/samsung/

 

[imaheadcase]

At that price better off getting a non-TN.

 

[Mand]

At that price better off getting a non-TN.

Actually no, for the purposes of this monitor TN is the best option.

Knee-jerk reactions of TN hate and assumptions of low quality benefit no one.

 

[Black Octagon]

@Black Octagon:

You mentioned before you had one of those Samsung 120hz monitors (forget exact model) which I recall as being HD3D. If so, do you still have that monitor? It did have the ability to hack the strobe light on in 2D. That would be a good way to see first hand if you would like ULMB or not. While not as good as the G-sync ULMB, it would still be pretty good (the G-sync version fixes the washed out colors while ULMB is on).

http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/samsung/

You're correct but I already sold the Samsung (S27A950D) to a friend. Told him about the LightBoost/Strobelight hack but not sure if hje actually tried it. Maybe I'll check it out when next bored at his place. Good idea, thanks.

 

[Black Octagon]

the question doesn't become 100 Hz ULMB or 100 Hz G-Sync, it might be 100 Hz ULMB or 80-90 Hz G-Sync but with higher image quality settings, no tearing, and no stuttering due to framerate drops in heavy workload areas.

My understanding was more:

60-100fps --> use G-Sync

101+fps --> use ULMB at a refresh rate of 100Hz or more, depending on your minimum framerate

 

[Mand]

My understanding was more:

60-100fps --> use G-Sync

101+fps --> use ULMB at a refresh rate of 100Hz or more, depending on your minimum framerate

You could do that, but the benefits of G-Sync aren't limited to low framerates. Above 100 you still have tearing with ULMB, or you could enable vsync and add latency and the potential for stutter if framerate drops below your ULMB frequency.

I'm not convinced anyone can really be certain of their minimum framerate unless they're *really* overpowering their graphics system, which will be very hard to do at 1440p at 100+ Hz. Certainly not if you feel like upping the image quality settings.

I am planning on using G-Sync with this monitor with the highest framerates I can get, most likely with at least two 880s. Variable refresh is just that awesome. ULMB is known and familiar, but that does not mean it is better. It has significant limitations imposed by running at a fixed refresh rate.

 

[Black Octagon]

^ understood, but then again G-Sync will still have not insignificant motion blur, even at high refresh/frame rates. Hence the interest in one day being able to combine it with ULMB

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Seems kind of silly to spend $800 for a 144Hz Gsync monitor and then turn Gsync off. There is an expensive premium attached to this feature.

not silly at all

1. G-Sync module includes ULMB which is supposed to be superior to the effect achieved via the Lightboost "hack"

2. this is the only 1440p LMB monitor on the market

3. G-Sync is still an option for the times when ULMB isn't viable

No, I meant 144, because that's the limit of G-Sync's function.

ULMB only works well when the GPU is putting out frames at constant intervals. I suppose you could make an argument that if your minimum is above 120 you could put in a framerate limiter to keep it at 120, and then use ULMB, but I still think G-Sync will have advantages. I just don't believe 120 Hz at 1440p is ever going to be as rock-solid steady as people think it is, even with SLI configurations. That, and you'll still have tearing with ULMB, something I personally can't tolerate.

Hz can be used to describe both refresh rate and frame rate, though I do agree that fps is used more often.

no, ULMB doesn't work @ 144Hz, Lightboost has only been for 100-120Hz, ULMB now offers 85Hz as a new threshold along with the previous 100/120. That being said, 100Hz LMB offers superior motion clarity to 144Hz. While 120fps/120Hz would be ideal in that its 20% faster than 100fps/100Hz, it also going to be that much more demanding. Not sure where 85Hz ULMB will end up, but its cool to have a new option to play with.

Having choices can make things difficult but at least it provides flexibility for those willing to do the configuration to achieve an ideal setup.

 

[Mand]

That being said, 100Hz LMB offers superior motion clarity to 144Hz.

How much motion clarity is there in a frame tear?

 

[bystander36]

How much motion clarity is there in a frame tear?

Motion clarity and screen tearing are unrelated. At least in the sense that most are using it. Tearing doesn't change blur or color production at all. It just allows two partial frames to be seen on one refresh, which I suppose to be considered to degrade the clarity of your frame production.

 

[jackstar7]

How much motion clarity is there in a frame tear?

Not everyone values the benefits of g-synch like you do.

As has been pointed out previously, the vast majority of this is subjective and experience based.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

How much motion clarity is there in a frame tear?

use V-Sync to eliminate tearing + framerate cap to reduce/eliminate input lag

refreshrate = 120
framerate cap = 118
maximum pre-rendered frames = 1

just have to be prepared to throw lots of hardware at the problem, and even then be willing to massively tweak settings (can't just blindly crank everything to ultra) in order to try and maintain such a demanding frame rate for full benefit of LMB

for games you don't want to go through the hoopla because you're only going to be putting a handful of hours into it a single play-through, and you do actually want all the ultra settings, there's always G-Sync

 

[3DVagabond]

use V-Sync to eliminate tearing + framerate cap to reduce/eliminate input lag

refreshrate = 120
framerate cap = 118
maximum pre-rendered frames = 1

just have to be prepared to throw lots of hardware at the problem, and even then be willing to massively tweak settings (can't just blindly crank everything to ultra) in order to try and maintain such a demanding frame rate for full benefit of LMB

for games you don't want to go through the hoopla because you're only going to be putting a handful of hours into it a single play-through, and you do actually want all the ultra settings, there's always G-Sync

Gsync is what's making this monitor cost $800. It's so you don't have to maintain the refresh rate. LMB is just an added feature that you can use when the game isn't demanding enough to need Gsync. Which for most cards at that res isn't going to happen often.