[AT]AMD Demonstrates "FreeSync", Free G-Sync Alternative, at CES 2014

[blackened23]

Come on, that last portion is a straight up lie.

From the article:

AMD isn’t ready to productize this nor does it have a public go to market strategy

I don't know how you interpret that, but I know what it sounds like to me.

 

[NTMBK]

From the article:

The important word in that sentence is "public".

 

[sontin]

At least people still eat AMD's marketing even when they didn't show anything new.

V-Blank doesn't allow for a variable frame rate. The GPU only sends a start and end command. That is V-Sync with a different hz than the maximum.

That's the reason why both notebooks run with V-Sync.

 

[Silverforce11]

Company demonstrates new tech demo at CES with works amazing well for the price (free) = doomed to fail.

There's logic in that?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

My point is that I don't understand the unbridled negativity that you and others are showing towards this. If it works out, it'll be getting us all a cool technology at a lower price and with greater availability. If not, then yeah, AMD screwed up. *shrug*

I'm only saying there isn't much to go with here. Anand didn't even describe his initial experience with this nearly in the same way he did with G-Sync, only that he is hopeful, nothing more.

Surely after months of downplaying G-Sync you can see the blowback this might have if it turns out to be not as good, or worse, vaporware.

 

[Abwx]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7641/amd-demonstrates-freesync-free-gsync-alternative-at-ces-2014



This sounds promising! We might actually see some traction for variable refresh rates if manufacturers can shoehorn it in at no extra cost. Good to see AMD recognising that G-Sync is a useful technology.

An idea that was already a VESA standard according to Anand ,
it s just that the standard wasnt hardware implemented
on monitors...

In the case of the Toshiba Satellite Click, the panel already supports variable VBLANK. AMD’s display engines have supported variable VBLANK for a couple of generations, and that extends all the way down to APUs.

So AMD is copying themselves , in short...

 

[Paul98]

At least people still eat AMD's marketing even when they didn't show anything new.

V-Blank doesn't allow for a variable frame rate. The GPU only sends a start and end command. That is V-Sync with a different hz than the maximum.

That's the reason why both notebooks run with V-Sync.

Why couldn't it be variable? If the GPU can send the information, and the monitor can refresh at a rate other than it's normal what makes it so it can't change refresh rates?

 

[blastingcap]

From Anandtech:

So without a FreeSync BS labeling EVERYTHING is already there. The panel supports the standard, the GPU does, even the drivers already do. Why this wasn't done earlier I have no idea, but I'd love to see some real numbers on which panels do and don't support the VBLANK control within the VESA standard. Do you have that information or was your claim just made up?

Try re-reading my post. I simply copied and pasted from the Anandtech article which says that you need the hardware to be compatible. If you read the article it says that some mobile panels may already be so. If you read my post, you can see where I said that I don't game on mobile, so my current (desktop) monitors almost certain do NOT support FreeSync. If they did, why would we need GSYNC hardware in the first place? Why would Anand limit his comment to mobile panels only? The most obvious explanation is that most or all desktop panels out there do NOT support this kind of stuff yet.

Thus my "wait and see" strategy. I'll wait till it's standard for free and then upgrade my monitors.

Reading is FUNdamental.

 

[Nintendesert]

Try re-reading my post. I simply copied and pasted from the Anandtech article which says that you need the hardware to be compatible. If you read the article it says that some mobile panels may already be so. If you read my post, you can see where I said that I don't game on mobile, so my current (desktop) monitors almost certain do NOT support FreeSync. If they did, why would we need GSYNC hardware in the first place? Why would Anand limit his comment to mobile panels only? The most obvious explanation is that most or all desktop panels out there do NOT support this kind of stuff yet.

Thus my "wait and see" strategy. I'll wait till it's standard for free and then upgrade my monitors.

Reading is FUNdamental.

So you have no evidence of your baseless claim?

 

[Abwx]

so my current (desktop) monitors almost certain do NOT support FreeSync. If they did, why would we need GSYNC hardware in the first place?

Because Nvidia GFX have not VBLANK functionality.?..

Or are not interested by the existing standard.?.who knows...

 

[3DVagabond]

We need a more in depth article on this. It seems like we already have a VESA standard that does this. What do we need Gsync for then? Why does nVidia have to use additional hardware that is only compatible with their GPU's?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Because Nvidia GFX have not VBLANK functionality.?..

Or are not interested by the existing standard.?.who knows...

Doesn't offer the same functionality?

Increases input lag?

Causes increased driver/CPU overhead?

What do we have to go on? Basically nothing at this point.

With nothing other than a round table demonstration after having this functionality for years I'm not quite as hopeful as Anand seems to be thinking this will improve consoles... Oh yay..

 

[blackened23]

So you have no evidence of your baseless claim?

I might ask you the same? Where are the panels that support this tech? What companies are releasing panels that work with this tech? Why did they choose to demonstrate this in a LAPTOP? Could it be that desktop panels don't support vblank (google says: PROBABLY NOT) Surely it makes more sense to do this on a desktop panel? Why would anand state that it was less impressive than g-sync?

And most important, with no plans to bring it to market, when is it coming to market?

Like I said before. AMD marketing fluff. Happened time and time again in the past. I hope i'm wrong though, because a free alternative that mimics G-sync would be great for many reasons. Do you really think that nvidia is adding FPGA boards to monitors just for the hell of it? That it isn't necessary? Oh hey they could have used vblank the entire time.

Excuse me while I roll my eyes. This is AMD being AMD. Promising something they probably won't deliver on. AGAIN.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Looks more like a PR spin. Only works on selected few laptop displays, no plan to actually release it, doesnt even get close to the gsync experience.

As most already figured out (for the desktop). The problem is with the entire delivery chain to the monitor. Something displayport for example could have voted to fix. But simply joined the bulk of do nothing really standards. Gsync is by no means the real fix, but it is the workaround possible.

While the real solution however is more easily possible for laptops. Since the manufactor controls the entire chain.

 

[blastingcap]

So you have no evidence of your baseless claim?

I quoted Anandtech's Anand Lal Shimpi. You know, the owner of the site you are typing on. Here's the URL in case you missed it the first 139504 times: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7641/amd-demonstrates-freesync-free-gsync-alternative-at-ces-2014


Who did you quote?

Why are you are trying to pick a fight using words like "baseless" when they are unnecessary?

 

[sontin]

Why couldn't it be variable? If the GPU can send the information, and the monitor can refresh at a rate other than it's normal what makes it so it can't change refresh rates?

V-Blank works from the GPU to the monitor. The GPU doesn't know in which state the current frame is.
So you can send a start and end command but if your next frame will be faster ready then you overwrite the current one before it is finished.

 

[Bobisuruncle54]

*cough* marketing at its finest you mean

You grossly overplay the benefit of G-SYNC, and downplay the significance of AMD's potential product, even though they already have hardware capable of it already in the market. Your bias is clear, please don't think you're neutral as you're not. Does one even have to mention that every bit of G-SYNC related news you have read is marketing?

Fact is, anyone with a hint of ability will use a frame limiter and set their graphics options to provide a relatively stable frame rate and enjoy smooth frames and no tearing. This isn't a difficult issue to solve with current hardware solutions.

 

[Abwx]

Doesn't offer the same functionality?

Increases input lag?

Causes increased driver/CPU overhead?

What do we have to go on? Basically nothing at this point.

With nothing other than a round table demonstration after having this functionality for years I'm not quite as hopeful as Anand seems to be thinking this will improve consoles... Oh yay..

Was spot on , according to HFR the best explanation is that
Nvidia doesnt support VBLANK hence the need of GSync...

http://www.hardware.fr/news/13517/ces-amd-freesync-g-sync-gratuit.html

google translate , the last lines.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Was spot on , according to HFR the best explanation is that
Nvidia doesnt support VBLANK hence the need of GSync...

http://www.hardware.fr/news/13517/ces-amd-freesync-g-sync-gratuit.html

google translate , the last lines.

Even though the link says they have no idea. :thumbsup:

 

[Abwx]

Even though the link says they have no idea. :thumbsup:

The link also say that the VESA consortium was stunned
by NVidia announcement since the VESA standard already
has this very same functionality officialy implemented.

Conclude what you want.

 

[Despoiler]

Try re-reading my post. I simply copied and pasted from the Anandtech article which says that you need the hardware to be compatible. If you read the article it says that some mobile panels may already be so. If you read my post, you can see where I said that I don't game on mobile, so my current (desktop) monitors almost certain do NOT support FreeSync. If they did, why would we need GSYNC hardware in the first place? Why would Anand limit his comment to mobile panels only? The most obvious explanation is that most or all desktop panels out there do NOT support this kind of stuff yet.

Thus my "wait and see" strategy. I'll wait till it's standard for free and then upgrade my monitors.

Reading is FUNdamental.

VBLANK has been in the standards since the CRT days. My guess is that virtually all monitors support it since it's part of the standard. If they didn't it's because the manufacturers removed the functionality for simplicity. It can be added back in with a firmware update.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_blanking_interval

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_display_identification_data (note the vertical blanking descriptors in the EDID Detailed Timing Descriptor section)

The Nvidia G-Sync hardware is primarily there to make sure you own a Nvidia graphics card. We can't be giving this stuff away now can we? Seriously. In order to put a gate keeper into a monitor, they created an implementation that replaces the video scaler. AMD clearly shows you can do the same thing w/o the need for a different scaler.

 

[3DVagabond]

Was spot on , according to HFR the best explanation is that
Nvidia doesnt support VBLANK hence the need of GSync...

http://www.hardware.fr/news/13517/ces-amd-freesync-g-sync-gratuit.html

google translate , the last lines.

From that link via Google Translate:

To our surprise, AMD then explained to us that this display technique was already in development for some time, but mainly for other reasons: to reduce consumption display related to mobile systems. AMD also specifies a standard VESA already exists for this frame and the consortium was very surprised at the announcement of G-SYNC by Nvidia.

 

[Spjut]

Even if this is inferior to Gsync, it's a big win for everyone.
Nvidia users too should rejoice if they don't have to replace their monitor.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

The link also say that the VESA consortium was stunned
by NVidia announcement since the VESA standard already
has this very same functionality officialy implemented.

Conclude what you want.

My bad, I wasn't aware G-Sync used V-Sync like FreeSync.


Let's go back to your blatant lie where you said one thing and posted a link claiming it confirmed what you wanted to believe but upon clicking the link it was revealed that the link in fact did not back up what you said the link backed up.

Why do that?

 

[sontin]

AMD clearly shows you can do the same thing w/o the need for a different scaler.

Can you link to the video?
What I see is a 50hz V-Sync video.

I can show you the same without DisplayPort.