AT fermi review is up!

[Zebo]

I think the only real way to enjoy a GTX470/480 is to water cool it, of course this will be a more expensive and painstaking task for the uber leet enthusiasts...I wonder how much water cooling would add to the cost of a GTX480? Not to mention a bigger PSU.

Hard to say.

Decent watercooling for GPU and CPU costs $350 with a full cover GPU block.

But this is transportable to subsequent systems, whereby all you need is new GPU block each time ~ $100.

I agree though WC is the only way to fly trying to dissipate that much heat at tolerable levels.

 

[BFG10K]

dunno... I have an array of some nice headphones (HD580/HD650/AD2000/K701/D7000/MS1), only one of them being a closed design. Many if not the majority of higher grade phones are open which does little to nothing for muffling the ambient noise...

That's what I said. I said headphones are better than speakers, but they still can't mask loud fan noise. I'm agreeing with you.

 

[Schmide]

FYI 64db (gtx480) vs 59db (5870) is over double loudness since every 3db is double.

I've always heard that since the decibel scale is logarithmic every 10db is considered twice the subjective loudness. This certainly breaks down as you reach the db level of the rock band "Disaster Area" (Douglas Adams)

But it's at least 50% louder.

 

[Zebo]

I've always heard that since the decibel scale is logarithmic every 10db is considered twice the subjective loudness. This certainly breaks down as you reach the db level of the rock band "Disaster Area" (Douglas Adams)

But it's at least 50% louder.

10 log (P2/P1) = 10 log 2 = 3 dB

 

[Sylvanas]

This card is somewhat what I expected. I don't think I'll be buying one till they release a 16SM/512core part which I can watercool but nonetheless the DX11 performance is better than I expected. However it could be fantastic but if the games are still only barely at 30 fps maxed then all this tesselation is not worth it at all. Probably going to be another generation or two, until we really see some fantastic visuals that are actually playable.

 

[bfdd]

The 470 beat out the 5870 in some benchmarks, I actually find that more impressive. I also thought it was weird that in a benchmark it beat the 5870 they didn't even mention it but instead decided to point out how much better it was than the 5850.

 

[PingviN]

*sigh*

I guess we won't see much of a price war this time around if this is all Nvidia can bring to the party

 

[crazylegs]

I find it funny that the focus group that was so busy hyping only a day ago is now deathly silent.

Looking at you keys, you were leading me on for awhile into thinking Fermi would be awesome. Glad I got my 5870 at launch.

You've hit the nail on the head with that comment. Especially the 'leading on' bit... Maybe now people with take certain members 'impartiality' with a pinch or two of salt.

You can bet they are all being briefed right now, how to come out fighting and spinning this one:

- Single Fastest card... no 'real enthusiast' cares about noise, heat, power consumption, do they?

- CUDA!

- PHYSX!

Its 2008 all over again...

 

[at80eighty]

PC gaming isn't fun for me. It's not fun for a lot of people I know.

jesus christ. all you ever contribute in threads is bitching about your zen tastes - go start a support group or a commune for your disenfranchised army & go away if you are so disillusioned by PC gaming or change your post content up a bit, you broken record

 

[nemesismk2]

The 470 beat out the 5870 in some benchmarks, I actually find that more impressive. I also thought it was weird that in a benchmark it beat the 5870 they didn't even mention it but instead decided to point out how much better it was than the 5850.

I find that more impressive as well because in the UK the 5870 is in the same price bracket as the GTX 470. The 5850 is ofcourse much cheaper (£90 cheaper) than the 5870 and GTX 270 and IMO the 5850 is better value for money.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

The 470 beat out the 5870 in some benchmarks, I actually find that more impressive. I also thought it was weird that in a benchmark it beat the 5870 they didn't even mention it but instead decided to point out how much better it was than the 5850.

Yeah, and in BC2 the 5850 beat the 480 @ 1920x1200... but loses out in Anand's fake min. framerate test, though @ 2560x1600..

I'd say BC2 is much more relevant than Battleforge; where the 470 beats the 5870 and also in HAWX @ 1920x1200, but who cares? The framerates are through the roof anyway in HAWX.

I find it more impressive that the 5850 competes so well with the 470 in Anand's benchies considering it's cheaper, cooler, & quieter.

 

[at80eighty]

(A) Complete bullshit
(b) If you can't turn up your audio because of thin walls I guess you don't have sex much with the wife? J/K

You are reaching, stop bullshitting man there is NO way to hear your fans while gaming

I like how you call any differing opinion as ATI fanboyism, while your personal discussing style is louder than the nV 480

 

[Cookie Monster]

Yeah, and in BC2 the 5850 beat the 480 @ 1920x1200... but loses out in Anand's [bold]fake[/bold] min. framerate test, though @ 2560x1600..

I'd say BC2 is much more relevant than Battleforge; where the 470 beats the 5870 and also in HAWX @ 1920x1200, but who cares? The framerates are through the roof anyway in HAWX.

I find it more impressive that the 5850 competes so well with the 470 in Anand's benchies considering it's cheaper, cooler, & quieter.

Fake?

 

[Patrick Wolf]

Fake?

Uh, artificial? jerry-rigged? faux? Any of those work better for you? No? Fine. Their "stand-in" test.

It wasn't the best min. framerate test, and they only did it at 2560x1600.

 

[at80eighty]

yeah I was confused by that too. since when is taking in game (i.e. non synthetic) minimum fps a "fake" approach?

GF200 does well in minimum fps - thats a good direction for both companies to follow. give credit where it is due

 

[Patrick Wolf]

yeah I was confused by that too. since when is taking in game (i.e. non synthetic) minimum fps a "fake" approach?

Poor choice word. Point being, why is it that FRAPSing the chase scene in BC2 didn’t provide them with a "suitable degree of reliability" for minimum framerates?

Furthermore, why is the min. framerate missing from most of the games? Maybe not demanding enough to matter? I think it matters reguardless.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Well why dont you ask them?

Im quite baffled by the fact that you think AT somehow faked(??) the test. Are you implying that AT has some hidden agenda? I cant see why you cant take their word for it.

If you want min frame rate tests take a look at hardwarecanuck's review. They include it in every benchmark where its possible. Yet you can see how Fermi based video cards excel in this area.

 

[Lonyo]

Well why dont you ask them?

Im quite baffled by the fact that you think AT somehow faked(??) the test. Are you implying that AT has some hidden agenda? I cant see why you cant take their word for it.

If you want min frame rate tests take a look at hardwarecanuck's review. They include it in every benchmark where its possible. Yet you can see how Fermi based video cards excel in this area.

By fake I assume he means it's not a real minimum FPS result, but is an average result for a heavily demanding situation designed to represent what minimum FPS might be.

That's explained in the article, but it's also basically a "fake" result. It's not the actual minimum FPS at all.

 

[Lonyo]

It looks like pcgh has actual values that are card only and in line with xbitlabs.

If we excuse fur/occt as out of the ordinary they come up with a 266w or so figure.

So basically the TDP for the GTX480 is typical, and the TDP for everything else seems to be worst case, meaning that it is only running ~250w, but everything else is running much lower than their TDPs, and Charlie's 295w was spot on under maximum load (e.g. Furmark), which is the same load at which the HD5870 hits its own 188W TDP, based on these figures.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

(a) I can still hear the noise of my case fans, even with headphones
(b) some of us have thin walls and don't want to worry about the neighbors when using the PC late at night. As I can hear them brushing their teeth in the mornings I'm pretty sure they would hear that fan.

(a) I'm with you. My PC doesn't get too loud, but the more quiet it is the better reguardless of what you're playing.
(b) My apt blows, standard 2x4 walls. Poorly designed too. Neighbors are obnoxious as hell and they know it, so I don't give a damn if they can hear my thundering explosions during the day. Should be a standard for sound proofing in apts requiring green glue at least.

 

[Ryan Smith]

Poor choice word. Point being, why is it that FRAPSing the chase scene in BC2 didn’t provide them with a "suitable degree of reliability" for minimum framerates?

Furthermore, why is the min. framerate missing from most of the games? Maybe not demanding enough to matter? I think it matters reguardless.

Even though it's an on-rails section, there's a slight degree of randomness in the chase scene. Enemy AI aiming is particularly random (impacting whether you get hit or not) and there's a section where a jeep blows up to your right about half-way through, with the debris basically flying in random directions. We do multiple runs to resolve this on our averages (not that it has a big impact on the averages in the first place) but that's not a valid solution to our minimum framerate problem.

Minimums in general are very unreliable. We stopped recording them on a couple of different games half-way through rebuilding our benchmark suite because we weren't getting reliable data.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Enclosed headphones? You can hear 38db? AMAZING!
SO a gtx 480 is 2x as loud as a 4870 at 100%

Mabe I'm just getting old or deaf?
But really I can't hear my fans. *shrugs*

If you haven't, please have a look at the video. Listen to that fan go nuts as Furmark runs, keep watching, it keeps getting louder and louder.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/03/26/nvidia_fermi_gtx_470_480_sli_review/7

I have Logitech Z5500's for my PC speakers, they get loud to the point that it's quite uncomfortable. With them turned up I would not hear a blow dryer in my case.

But 99% of the time I"m playing with them on a pretty low setting. I have 3 year old and a wife. When my son goes to bed I might fire up the PC and play some games. I can't crank the volume when my wife is watching TV and my kid is asleep. See how fan noise can be worth considering in my situation? And before it's suggested, I don't want headphones, I spent $300 on these speakers and like them very much.

Even when I'm home alone and playing a game with the speakers turned up a bit, I'd hear this part I think. There is a reason I got this Sapphire Vapor-X part despite it's typical lower overclocking ability compared to the reference 5870's. It's whisper quiet, at least compared to the GTX480 it is.

 

[konakona]

Aftermarket coolers seem to work great for mitigating the noise from overclocked 5850/5870s. Not sure if same would hold true for fermi with that kind of heat dissipation. We will see when the thing comes out I guess. Maybe they will make some ginormous GPU coolers almost looking like a cpu heatsink Well, trapping the heat inside the case like most of those aftermarket coolers do now might actually become a more serious problem.

 

[Silverforce11]

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/787-4/dossier-nvidia-geforce-gtx-480.html

Some real power draw data for the video card only.

You can clearly see the 480 is pulling some mean wattage, getting to 298W. NV basically lied at the last minute, revising the TDP for their AIB partners cos admitting a near 300W limit for a single GPU would have made many of them faint. Another review has it reaching a max of 318W and 105C temps! So yeah, better have a damn well ventilated case.

Huge die size, insane power draw and heat, expensive and for a marginal performance gain in a few games and 1 useless synthetic benchmark? I don't see how this kind of monolithic architecture can keep going at this rate. Fermi is an utter failure. Looking forward to the next generation battle.

 

[ZimZum]

Mabe I'm just getting old or deaf?
But really I can't hear my fans. *shrugs*

Years of running headphones too loud have left me with intermittent tinnitus and permanent hearing loss in both ears. Now I know better. If you crank your headphones to the point that they drown out all outside noise, eventually you will pay for it. Now if you use noise canceling headphones or ones with inherent isolation like, IEM's or closed cans, thats another story.