At least 5 Dead 60 Injured in Suicide Bombing in Tel Aviv

[justint]

Ha'aretz

 

[snooker]

And the Palestinians wonder why Isreal does not stop invading their land.

One day they will realize that blowing up bus's and disco's etc... will not accomplish anything other then pushing Isreal to take the rest of the Palestinians land and make them get out forever.

 

[Czar]

horrible that this happened

why are people still surprised is beyond me, expecialy if you look at what Israel has been doing for the past weeks. For over a month now the IDF has been rolling into Palestinian lands almost every day, arresting people, destroying buildings, making hundreds of palestinians homeless, and so on and on. Not sure about the eact number but I think at least 20-30 people have been killed during these raids if not more.

 

[PlatinumGold]

why are people still surprised is beyond me, expecialy if you look at what Israel has been doing for the past weeks. For over a month now the IDF has been rolling into Palestinian lands almost every day, arresting people, destroying buildings, making hundreds of palestinians homeless, and so on and on. Not sure about the eact number but I think at least 20-30 people have been killed during these raids if not more.

When will you get it. Israeli's are the GOVERNMENT in the area, legal or not, legitimate or not, that is a FACT.

The best way to overcome such governments has been NON VIOLENCE.

czar if you really believed ur little quote about Hatred . . . then you would also be preaching non violence, but u only spout this tooth for tooth thing everytime someone posts one of these you always respond as if the palestinians have the right to do these things because of the way they are treated. well they DON'T have the right and their methods are not effective.

czar, i give up, you must be a antisemitic bigot.

 

[snooker]

For over a month now the IDF has been rolling into Palestinian lands almost every day, arresting people, destroying buildings, making hundreds of palestinians homeless, and so on and on. Not sure about the eact number but I think at least 20-30 people have been killed during these raids if not more.

The questions I have is:

How many of those people that Isreal have killed was riding a bus to lunch or back to work?

How many did they kill on a dance floor?

How many was shooting at them trying to kill them or throwing Rocks and such trying to wound and/or kill them?

How many attacked or planned unprovoked attacks on Isreali civilians?


I am sooo confused as to why Palestinians want war.


Also, why is 99% of suicide bombers under the age of 21 when it appears everyone who appears on TV and such for their cause is old? maybe the old ones should be the martyrs for the cause, that way a new generation will be able to grow up without the old ones infuencing them.


Whomever sits on the land today is the owner of it. It does not matter who had the land years ago.

The US faced the same problem a few hundred years ago, and the native Indians of that time realized they was fighting a lost cause and conceeded. Today, the native Indians still hold land within the US on Indian Reservations, happily it appears too....

So why can't there be Palastinian Reservations in Isreal? Because the palastinians do not know when to quit....

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Czar
horrible that this happened

why are people still surprised is beyond me, expecialy if you look at what Israel has been doing for the past weeks. For over a month now the IDF has been rolling into Palestinian lands almost every day, arresting people, destroying buildings, making hundreds of palestinians homeless, and so on and on. Not sure about the eact number but I think at least 20-30 people have been killed during these raids if not more.

Suicide bombing of innocent people going about their business on a city bus is NOT an acceptable tactic for Palestinians to accomplish their goals. Those who perform, support, and/or condone the tactic of suicide bombing do not, in my opinion, deserve to be treated as human beings, and thoroughly deserve to be put before a firing squad.

 

[Random Variable]

The problem is not the Palestinians, but rather the Syrians, the Iranians, and the Iraqis. The Palestinians are once again being used as panws by these countries.

 

[ElFenix]

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

why are people still surprised is beyond me, expecialy if you look at what Israel has been doing for the past weeks. For over a month now the IDF has been rolling into Palestinian lands almost every day, arresting people, destroying buildings, making hundreds of palestinians homeless, and so on and on. Not sure about the eact number but I think at least 20-30 people have been killed during these raids if not more.

When will you get it. Israeli's are the GOVERNMENT in the area, legal or not, legitimate or not, that is a FACT.

The best way to overcome such governments has been NON VIOLENCE.

czar if you really believed ur little quote about Hatred . . . then you would also be preaching non violence, but u only spout this tooth for tooth thing everytime someone posts one of these you always respond as if the palestinians have the right to do these things because of the way they are treated. well they DON'T have the right and their methods are not effective.

czar, i give up, you must be a antisemitic bigot.

Israel is the government in Israel, not in the Palestininian lands, there they are the occupying force.

I only spout tooth for tooth because so few of you even care what the Palestinians are going through you only scream when something terrible happens in Israel but nothing when it happens in the West Bank or the Gaza strip, thats why I try to mention this.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

czar, i give up, you must be a antisemitic bigot.

palestinians are semitic too

 

[Random Variable]

I only spout tooth for tooth because so few of you even care what the Palestinians are going through you only scream when something terrible happens in Israel but nothing when it happens in the West Bank or the Gaza strip, thats why I try to mention this.

If so many of them weren't supportive of the groups that are actively trying to kill members of my family, I would care.

 

[Czar]

snooker
I suggest you go here every day for a month, read about what happens
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/middle_east/2001/israel_and_the_palestinians/

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Czar
horrible that this happened

why are people still surprised is beyond me, expecialy if you look at what Israel has been doing for the past weeks. For over a month now the IDF has been rolling into Palestinian lands almost every day, arresting people, destroying buildings, making hundreds of palestinians homeless, and so on and on. Not sure about the eact number but I think at least 20-30 people have been killed during these raids if not more.

Suicide bombing of innocent people going about their business on a city bus is NOT an acceptable tactic for Palestinians to accomplish their goals. Those who perform, support, and/or condone the tactic of suicide bombing do not, in my opinion, deserve to be treated as human beings, and thoroughly deserve to be put before a firing squad.

I agree, it is definetly not the way to fight

 

[FeathersMcGraw]

Originally posted by: snooker
One day they will realize that blowing up bus's and disco's etc... will not accomplish anything other then pushing Isreal to take the rest of the Palestinians land and make them get out forever.

It works both ways. Military action doesn't change the way people think. World War II did not end Nazism, the conflicts of the Cold War did not end Communism, and I see no reason to expect that current actions in Afghanistan and the occupied territories or future ones in Iraq will end terrorism.

Yes, I know that the influence wielded by Communists and Nazis did decline as a result of World War II and the Cold War, but my point is that political ideologies can't be eliminated through warfare, just suppressed, and we're now seeing situations where decades of ideological conflict can no longer be suppressed, and are likely exacerbated.

 

[zengeos]

Israel is the government in Israel, not in the Palestininian lands, there they are the occupying force.

I only spout tooth for tooth because so few of you even care what the Palestinians are going through you only scream when something terrible happens in Israel but nothing when it happens in the West Bank or the Gaza strip, thats why I try to mention this.

Israel is the defacto government in Israel. Israel is the defacto government of the West Bank and Gaza until such time as a legitimate representative of those territories is ready to negotiate for a peaceful solution. So far there has been none. Until that time, Israel is the defacto government of those territories. When the Palestinian people have a group of representatives ready and willing to make the hard decisions and negotiate for a real, lasting peace, there will be no Palestinian country.

Is Israeli rule there *harsh* right now? Darn right! And it's too bad because prior to the mid 80's and the outside influence of hamasand Hizbullah, the Palestinians on the west Bank and even Gaza hads some of the highest living standards in the middle East outside Israel proper. Look where their *struggle* has gotten them because they chose violence over non-violence; they chose hatred over peaceful negotiation. I feel so sad for the innocent Paestinins being led down the garden path by hate mongers.

Mark-

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: zengeos

Israel is the government in Israel, not in the Palestininian lands, there they are the occupying force.

I only spout tooth for tooth because so few of you even care what the Palestinians are going through you only scream when something terrible happens in Israel but nothing when it happens in the West Bank or the Gaza strip, thats why I try to mention this.

Israel is the defacto government in Israel. Israel is the defacto government of the West Bank and Gaza until such time as a legitimate representative of those territories is ready to negotiate for a peaceful solution. So far there has been none. Until that time, Israel is the defacto government of those territories. When the Palestinian people have a group of representatives ready and willing to make the hard decisions and negotiate for a real, lasting peace, there will be no Palestinian country.

Is Israeli rule there *harsh* right now? Darn right! And it's too bad because prior to the mid 80's and the outside influence of hamasand Hizbullah, the Palestinians on the west Bank and even Gaza hads some of the highest living standards in the middle East outside Israel proper. Look where their *struggle* has gotten them because they chose violence over non-violence; they chose hatred over peaceful negotiation. I feel so sad for the innocent Paestinins being led down the garden path by hate mongers.

Mark-

if so then Israel must provide medical treatment, sanitations, schooling and other basic services by international law. They dont provide these services because they dont want to be the "defacto government" of the west bank and the gaza strip because of this international law.

 

[ThePresence]

Israel - Has expressd their intention to form a Palestinian country
Palestinians - Have expressed their intentions to destroy the State of Israel

Israel - Have expressed their intentions to try not to harm civillians (Israeli soldiers risk their lives not to harm civillians)
Palestinians - Have expressed their intentions to try and kill civillians

Yeah Czar, go read your European newspapers and websites, and accept them as the truth. These papers do nothing but try to rag on Israel at every opportunity. Yes, even the holy voice of the gospel truth, the BBC. You know what you know from papers and websites, and pretend to understand. How sad.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Israel - Has expressd their intention to form a Palestinian country
Palestinians - Have expressed their intentions to destroy the State of Israel

Israel - Have expressed their intentions to try not to harm civillians (Israeli soldiers risk their lives not to harm civillians)
Palestinians - Have expressed their intentions to try and kill civillians

Yeah Czar, go read your European newspapers and websites, and accept them as the truth. These papers do nothing but try to rag on Israel at every opportunity. Yes, even the holy voice of the gospel truth, the BBC. You know what you know from papers and websites, and pretend to understand. How sad.

sure why not go to http://www.reuters.com/ like I do every once in a while and read the same stories there, uuuh must be a conspiracy theory against Israel

Intentions not to harm civilians?? then tell me, why are most of those who have been killed by the IDF since the infada began been civilians?

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Israel - Has expressd their intention to form a Palestinian country
Palestinians - Have expressed their intentions to destroy the State of Israel

Israel - Have expressed their intentions to try not to harm civillians (Israeli soldiers risk their lives not to harm civillians)
Palestinians - Have expressed their intentions to try and kill civillians

Yeah Czar, go read your European newspapers and websites, and accept them as the truth. These papers do nothing but try to rag on Israel at every opportunity. Yes, even the holy voice of the gospel truth, the BBC. You know what you know from papers and websites, and pretend to understand. How sad.

sure why not go to http://www.reuters.com/ like I do every once in a while and read the same stories there, uuuh must be a conspiracy theory against Israel

Ahhh, spare me the links.

Intentions not to harm civilians?? then tell me, why are most of those who have been killed by the IDF since the infada began been civilians?

Because TERRORISTS ARE CIVILLIANS.

 

[mrCide]

not that i condone killing of civilians but Fvck israel to hell, they can suffer for all i care. how any americans can support them is beyond me. media here never reports what the israelis are doing to the palestinians.. and folks, throwing rocks or yelling at a cop doesnt give them the right to kill you. anyway, i don't argue about the situation anymore i just speak my mind.

 

[justint]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Israel - Has expressd their intention to form a Palestinian country
Palestinians - Have expressed their intentions to destroy the State of Israel

Israel - Have expressed their intentions to try not to harm civillians (Israeli soldiers risk their lives not to harm civillians)
Palestinians - Have expressed their intentions to try and kill civillians

Yeah Czar, go read your European newspapers and websites, and accept them as the truth. These papers do nothing but try to rag on Israel at every opportunity. Yes, even the holy voice of the gospel truth, the BBC. You know what you know from papers and websites, and pretend to understand. How sad.

sure why not go to http://www.reuters.com/ like I do every once in a while and read the same stories there, uuuh must be a conspiracy theory against Israel

Ahhh, spare me the links.

Intentions not to harm civilians?? then tell me, why are most of those who have been killed by the IDF since the infada began been civilians?

Because TERRORISTS ARE CIVILLIANS.

Terrorists are not civillians. Terrorists are combatants. Just because they don't wear uniforms does not make them civilians. Once you join an armed struglle you are a combatant.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: justint

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Israel - Has expressd their intention to form a Palestinian country
Palestinians - Have expressed their intentions to destroy the State of Israel

Israel - Have expressed their intentions to try not to harm civillians (Israeli soldiers risk their lives not to harm civillians)
Palestinians - Have expressed their intentions to try and kill civillians

Yeah Czar, go read your European newspapers and websites, and accept them as the truth. These papers do nothing but try to rag on Israel at every opportunity. Yes, even the holy voice of the gospel truth, the BBC. You know what you know from papers and websites, and pretend to understand. How sad.

sure why not go to http://www.reuters.com/ like I do every once in a while and read the same stories there, uuuh must be a conspiracy theory against Israel

Ahhh, spare me the links.

Intentions not to harm civilians?? then tell me, why are most of those who have been killed by the IDF since the infada began been civilians?

Because TERRORISTS ARE CIVILLIANS.

Terrorists are not civillians. Terrorists are combatants. Just because they don't wear uniforms does not make them civilians. Once you join an armed struglle you are a combatant.

No kidding. However, half the world's media doesnt see it that way.

 

[bauerbrazil]

Originally posted by: Czar

Israel is the government in Israel, not in the Palestininian lands, there they are the occupying force.

I only spout tooth for tooth because so few of you even care what the Palestinians are going through you only scream when something terrible happens in Israel but nothing when it happens in the West Bank or the Gaza strip, thats why I try to mention this.

Agreed.

 

[bauerbrazil]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Israel - Have expressed their intentions to try not to harm civillians (Israeli soldiers risk their lives not to harm civillians)

Thats why when they killed that FATAH's leader they bombed his house killing his family??? Hum, interesting intentions.

 

[justint]

I would like to clarify however, that the overwhelming majority of Palestinians killed in the current intifada were not terrorists or combtanants of any sort, just as the overwhelming number of Israelis killed in the current conflict by terrorist actions have been non-combatants. One need only look at the appalling number of Palestinian and Israeli children killed to know this fact. It is virtually impossible to effectively suppress terrorists operating amongst a friendly civliian population using conventional military forces without killing large number of non-combatants. Notice I said it is virtually impossible to suppress terrorists, it is impossible to defeat them under these circumstances. Kill one there will always be another to take his/her place. This is a historical fact, demonstrated in many conflicts including Vietnam, Afghanistan, Algeria, etc. etc.

Additionally, IDF, Border Police, and Paramilitary Security forces have been using lethal force on people who would not fit the definition of terrorist, in the first weeks of the Al Aqsq Intifada over a hundred Palestinians mostly teenagers and young men were shot by Israeli troops using live ammunition during protests where the only weapons were rocks and burning tires. Many have been killed ancillary to combat operations against terrorists such as assasinations of terrorist leaders, raids on towns and villages, sniper fire from Israeli troops to enforce curfews and protect settlements, shooting incidents at checkpoints etc. Some of these incidents were mistakes, some were collateral damage, and some were deliberate actions designed to suppress the Palestinian population.

I am not making any judgements about the morality of these actions, and there effectiveness is open to debate amongst both Palestinians and Israelis. Palestinians know that terrorism against civillians particularly in Israel causes them great damage in the realm of public opinion, yet Hamas, and Islamic Jihad continue to enjoy wide support for thier activties due to the fact that they are seen to be doing SOMETHING against the occupiers. Sharon and his government is aware of the fact (reinforced by repeated statements and assessments from the Shin Bet, the Mossad, the Israeli National Security Council, and the Defense minister that the military activities of the Isreali security serivices will not ever stop terrorism or bring permament security yet they persist in escalating thier activities as they need to show as doing SOMETHING against the terrorists.

The current armed conflct is more based on political and emotional resons on both sides rather than strictly military ones.