AT World of Warcraft Thread (Cataclysm, Where do you play, General BS and all that)

[nageov3t]

I fondly remember that time I did something stupid... like force another player to train a dozen mobs onto me? and then spend half the afternoon searching for my corpse (dying again because, of course, I'm naked)? yup, totally deserved to be punished with a level-down.

 

[TheFamilyMan]

THAT is my biggest problems with players. They want all the rewards, [/b]without doing any work[/B]. I'm not in a raiding guild. I'm not a "no lifer" (why does having better gear make someone a no lifer?). I had some JP saved up from WoTLK. I began running my daily dungeons to get more. I got somewhere from 5-10k just from leveling to 85. I do my dailies - gold is coming out of my ears.

If you can't run the dungeons for the chaos orbs, pay someone. They are going for under 500g/each on my server. If you don't have 1k gold by 85, then you're doing something wrong. Everyone is stuck on WoTLK mode - gearing up without working for it. The expansion has been out for a month. Not everyone deserves to get everything already.

How do you define "work" and "deserves" for the other 9,999,999 players? You may deem that someone only "deserves" the drop from a boss in a heroic once they put X amount of "work" into it but that isn't right to do. A heroic instance that lasts 45 mins or 1 hour may seem trivial to you but may be the only time some folks get to play for an evening. I fail to understand how it seems okay to you to dictate to someone else who pays for the game what rewards they are allowed to get after only putting in a certain amount of work. Your definition of work and their definition of work could be two very disparate things. I also fail to see or understand how making something easier (which is entirely your opinion) for you to get that will still be a fair amount of work for someone else to get impacts your playing.

I hope you aren't intoning that you feel there is some sort of "eliteness" attached to your playing. You talk about "deserving" to get something...that's sounds like much of that elitist shit that grinds my gears. Everyone that plays (and pays) for the game deserves to be able to get the same gear. Everyone pays the same $12.99 - $14.99 per month. You running X number of heroics to get that "Belt of E-Peen Elongation" that had mobs on a harder setting vs. someone else running Y number of heroics set at a different setting should not matter nor impact you in one bit.

Don't take this the wrong way. I agree that heroics probably ARE at about the right setting in terms of difficulty. This should make the groups think about things (CC, threat, etc). I'm saying that the game is now built upon a heavy reliance on LFD. That is not in disupte in any way. I do LFD daily. I'm in a guild that has a core of "elite" players that doesn't allow anyone not twinked will full epics to run heroics or BG's with them. I'm only there for the perks and the occassional groupings with other "outcasts"; as we call ourselves. With this reliance upon LFD, AND if they (heroics) remain at their current difficulty/settings, then Blizzard will have to bridge betwen regular instances and heroics. They should do that if they choose to keep LFD as a part of the game and do that with changes to difficulty, gear drops, gear availability, etc.

 

[lupi]

Heroics in no way need to be nerfed. Stuff shouldn't be balanced around the LFD system. Our guild runs rarely wipe as it is.

Lol, this is pretty much the polar opposites we've been talking about. And let's not forget which way they've been adjusting the game towards over the last half a dozen patches...

 

[Moonzi]

I fondly remember that time I did something stupid... like force another player to train a dozen mobs onto me? and then spend half the afternoon searching for my corpse (dying again because, of course, I'm naked)? yup, totally deserved to be punished with a level-down.

As I stated, that was the difference between you and I, but I'll listen to you vent about the old game all you like...maybe I even trained you.

Paragon got heroic Nef down already huh?

 

[Anubis]

Paragon got heroic Nef down already huh?

yep

11 feral druids FTW

 

[Moonzi]

I saw that SS with all the bears, was very entertained by it

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

Lol, this is pretty much the polar opposites we've been talking about. And let's not forget which way they've been adjusting the game towards over the last half a dozen patches...

Yes and it is unfortunate. Hopefully they'll make a stand here and won't cave in to the whining.

 

[cronos]

Blizzard *will* make changes (nerf) down the road and I don't think it's because of the whining. It's their plan all along. It's just how the game always works. They always make the game 'easier' as time goes along.

Also remember that the rumors are that this expansion (and the ones after that) will be 25% shorter than the previous ones (~1.5 years instead of ~2 years), so get ready for changes happening quickly. Minor patches every other month and major patches every ~5 months. This is how I see it.

 

[Onita]

How do you define "work" and "deserves" for the other 9,999,999 players? You may deem that someone only "deserves" the drop from a boss in a heroic once they put X amount of "work" into it but that isn't right to do. A heroic instance that lasts 45 mins or 1 hour may seem trivial to you but may be the only time some folks get to play for an evening. I fail to understand how it seems okay to you to dictate to someone else who pays for the game what rewards they are allowed to get after only putting in a certain amount of work. Your definition of work and their definition of work could be two very disparate things. I also fail to see or understand how making something easier (which is entirely your opinion) for you to get that will still be a fair amount of work for someone else to get impacts your playing.

I hope you aren't intoning that you feel there is some sort of "eliteness" attached to your playing. You talk about "deserving" to get something...that's sounds like much of that elitist shit that grinds my gears. Everyone that plays (and pays) for the game deserves to be able to get the same gear. Everyone pays the same $12.99 - $14.99 per month. You running X number of heroics to get that "Belt of E-Peen Elongation" that had mobs on a harder setting vs. someone else running Y number of heroics set at a different setting should not matter nor impact you in one bit.

Don't take this the wrong way. I agree that heroics probably ARE at about the right setting in terms of difficulty. This should make the groups think about things (CC, threat, etc). I'm saying that the game is now built upon a heavy reliance on LFD. That is not in disupte in any way. I do LFD daily. I'm in a guild that has a core of "elite" players that doesn't allow anyone not twinked will full epics to run heroics or BG's with them. I'm only there for the perks and the occassional groupings with other "outcasts"; as we call ourselves. With this reliance upon LFD, AND if they (heroics) remain at their current difficulty/settings, then Blizzard will have to bridge betwen regular instances and heroics. They should do that if they choose to keep LFD as a part of the game and do that with changes to difficulty, gear drops, gear availability, etc.

Not everyone gets to do EVERYTHING in the game. That's just the way it works in an MMO. Everyone who doesn't get what they want throws out the term "elitist". If you can only play for 45 minutes a day/at a time, then you won't be able to do everything. I'm not sure why you think, in an MMO, that everyone who "pays their money" gets all the gear they want. If I came off as an "elitist" somehow, I apologize, but I'm not. I don't raid... because I don't have the time, or hell, maybe the skill. I won't whine about it because that's life. I just don't understand why you feel that you deserve a shot at all items because you pay your money but won't put in the time when the expansion has been out for a friggin month.

Also, maybe you oughta find a new guild.

 

[nageov3t]

blizzard has far more information about this than we do.

if they're seeing significant numbers of heroics not being completed or a major drop-off in people running them versus BC/WotLK and they're not happy with that, I'm sure they'll make whatever adjustments they deem appropriate.

 

[Onita]

True, and I'm sure they will get nerfed, but I'd rather they didn't until the next raids or bosses or whatever are released. I just don't understand the entitlement mentality. I don't mind having to "work" to get that heroic or whatever down. I know I'm not a great player and it helps make ME better.

 

[nageov3t]

I'd guess it's because since the Naxx disaster, Blizzard's design has been about getting the most amount of players to experience the most amount of content as reasonably possible.

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

OG Naxx was awesome!

 

[nageov3t]

OG Naxx was awesome!

for the 0.1% of players that got to see it

 

[Pens1566]

Yeah, from the designers perspective, spending the vast majority of your time working on stuff that hardly anyone sees/experiences isn't what they want.

 

[lupi]

Dps queue times are still in the 45 minute range, given how many people have leveled several alts in the time since release, by this point it's pretty clear that it is not an issue of availability of players.


As for the lifecycle, rumored or otherwise, of this expansion. Don't forget that the announced and reinforced plan has always been to turn out packs every year. Why, well at cata sales pace that's over 125 million dropping into the coffers over one week.

As far as this expansion in particular, also let's not forget that a substantial amount of content (as denoted by time spent by devs) went into redoing the old world. Now they did cut the number of areas put out this time (and reduced levels given) to compensate for time not spent on new area generation, but how will this shift in resources effect expansions life cycle is still up in the air. But if they can't pump out several staggered content releases or can't put a fresh expansion out sooner than normal, the freshness of the game could take a big hit similar to the latter months of the BC era...and we all know when devs talk about BS it's always to point out the worst moments of wow.

 

[invidia]

for the 0.1% of players that got to see it

If you meant vanilla Naxx, that percent seems pretty accurate.

But for WoTLK Naxx, it was more like the 0.1% that did NOT get to see it. It was so easily pugged after a few weeks of WoTLK that it pretty much destroyed the point of being in a guild.

 

[Scotteq]

Dps queue times are still in the 45 minute range, given how many people have leveled several alts in the time since release, by this point it's pretty clear that it is not an issue of availability of players.

(Tank) I only instance in~Guild now, if I have any choice in the matter. And Yes, I do skip the daily heroic if/when I don't have guildies available and don't want to deal with the hassle that comes with brain dead PuGs.

I agree it's not a matter of "Availability of Players". It's a matter of the availability of babysitters. Strictly on a personal basis: My game time is somewhat limited, and I choose not to spend it dealing with the kiddies that mommy and daddy don't have the time/inclination to raise. I'd rather grind dailies, or farm food/fish/ore, or phart around with Archaeology while waiting for an in Guild group.

 

[nageov3t]

If you meant vanilla Naxx, that percent seems pretty accurate.

But for WoTLK Naxx, it was more like the 0.1% that did NOT get to see it. It was so easily pugged after a few weeks of WoTLK that it pretty much destroyed the point of being in a guild.

I meant vanilla Naxx.

I thought I remembered hearing that the devs regarded Naxx-40 as a failure based on how few people ever got to see inside it (or past the first couple trash pulls) compared to how much resources went into developing it.

 

[lupi]

Naxx 40 is seperated from the general BC failure somewhat because by the time it was released people had so many details abouthow their chars were about to be alteredt with BC that few wanted to keep raiding. But yes, in the end it was mostly an abandoned place that people did post BC to get the legendary.

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

I've never been in WOTLK Naxx because I quit at the end of BC and just came back in time to level 2 new characters to 80 right before Cata.

Is it aesthetically the same? Same bosses?

 

[jhbball]

I've never been in WOTLK Naxx because I quit at the end of BC and just came back in time to level 2 new characters to 80 right before Cata.

Is it aesthetically the same? Same bosses?

Aesthetically, everything was the same, if i recall. But most of the fights were tuned down/nerf so average guilds could clear it. 4 horsemen, for example, was one fight they nerfed into the ground. I remember at lvl 60, having to recruit 4 other warriors (for a total of 8) for the 8 tank requirement for that fight.

 

[jhbball]

I hit 525 Arch this weekend. 1400 troll fragments, 20 troll tablets = no zin'rokh. ZZZ.

 

[rivan]

Aesthetically, everything was the same, if i recall. But most of the fights were tuned down/nerf so average guilds could clear it. 4 horsemen, for example, was one fight they nerfed into the ground. I remember at lvl 60, having to recruit 4 other warriors (for a total of 8) for the 8 tank requirement for that fight.

Which while being uber on the "omg, so hard!" front, it's an absolutely terribad design for a fight. It meant changing the raid comp just for that fight, which meant 4 people had to sit out - what a complete shaft for them.

Far better (creatively) designed was, say, Blood Princes, where the one boss needed to be "tanked", but it didn't have to be done by an actual tank class. You can argue about that fight's difficulty, but it solved for the "many bosses" far better, imo.

 

[nageov3t]

the tanking balance in endgames has always felt kinda missed up.

5-mans -- 1/5 is tanking
10-mans -- 2/10 are tanking
25-mans -- 2/25 are tanking