ATF reclassification of M885 (AR15 ammo situation) a "publishing error"

[Londo_Jowo]

Why is Jhhnn trolling this thread so hard? Doesn't seem like his normal MO.

Not enough marijuana law threads?

 

[rudeguy]

Why is Jhhnn trolling this thread so hard? Doesn't seem like his normal MO.

He must defend Dear Leader against all perceived threats.

 

[Jhhnn]

I don't have a full dog in this fight, but I am a "gun guy". I don't shoot .223 but I do shoot various other cartridges..one being 5.45x39 that just had surplus ammo banned for import by using the same "steel core" definition they tried to classify M885 under. It's frustrating when some time is banned for an asinine reason when it has been readily used for many years in the past. This happens and people tend to hoard/buy everything up so they can get in on some easy money and quick profit.

I don't want to deal with lead ammo due to the fact that I'd have to deal with lead fouling in the barrel that is well known to be a pain to remove, as well as I would like to avoid handling lead as much as I can .

Please. FMJ ammo is readily available in 5.45x39 which means negligible lead fouling & never touching any lead when using it.

 

[Jhhnn]

Why is Jhhnn trolling this thread so hard? Doesn't seem like his normal MO.

I'm enjoying the irrational mewling.

 

[Venix]

Entirely diversionary & a piss poor attempt at shaming the opposition into silence.

The topic at hand is a proposed ban on green tip AP 5.56 ammo. Actual negative effects on gun owners would be what, exactly? Is there a sporting purpose that other ammo does not fulfill?

Leave out the slippery slope fallacies, please. Numerous other rounds have been banned for decades w/o effect on ammo availability.

It's cheap and a good tool for certain jobs, like feral hog control. Amusingly, it's not a particularly great choice for killing humans, as it tends to punch straight through soft tissue without fragmenting, and it leaves a relatively small wound channel.

While it's true that the practical impact of a ban will be small, opposing unnecessary regulations is still important. The government should not ban a product without overwhelming proof that the ban is necessary. In this case, there is literally no evidence suggesting that M855 is any more lethal or more "armor piercing" than any other 5.56x45 ammo, and overwhelming proof that it's used almost exclusively for sport.

The root issue is that the ATF wants a simple method of determining whether a round has a sporting purpose. Unfortunately, the method they've chosen--if an armor piercing round can be fired from a repeating handgun, it's not designed for sport--results in nonsensical decisions like the M855 ban. It's effectively the same "logic" behind zero tolerance policies in schools, and it should be opposed wherever it's encountered.

 

[ivwshane]

Why is Jhhnn trolling this thread so hard? Doesn't seem like his normal MO.

Why do you care?


I watched this thread start from accusations and when those accusations proved false it moved to conspiracy theory, when the conspiracy could no longer maintain it went to a different subject that involved the legitimacy of banning a certain type of ammo.

Why don't you guys skip the bullshit and address the issues in the first place? Had you done that we wouldn't have five pages of garbage.

 

[rudeguy]

Why do you care?


I watched this thread start from accusations and when those accusations proved false it moved to conspiracy theory, when the conspiracy could no longer maintain it went to a different subject that involved the legitimacy of banning a certain type of ammo.

Why don't you guys skip the bullshit and address the issues in the first place? Had you done that we would have five pages of garbage.

Why didn't you?


User Name Posts
Jhhnn 34
highland145 11
rudeguy 8
ivwshane 7
Blanky 6
DCal430 5

 

[Blanky]

Why is Jhhnn trolling this thread so hard? Doesn't seem like his normal MO.

This could be how he reacts when he has backed himself into a corner by saying some silly things that were disprove, so he feels if he can keep talking he can scream past the rubbish. We also learn he has a deep rooted fear of black rifles and is extremely paranoid about them.

 

[ivwshane]

Why didn't you?


User Name Posts
Jhhnn 34
highland145 11
rudeguy 8
ivwshane 7
Blanky 6
DCal430 5

You can check my first post, I asked a question, people doubled down on stupid. Had the thread been about the validity of banning a particular type of ammo I would have read the thread and that's it.

 

[frowertr]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/10/atf-shelves-controversial-bullet-ban-proposal/

Other news agencies are beginning to report the same. Glad the ATF came to their senses on this one.

Edit:
ATF Press Release: http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2...-piercing-ammunition-exemption-framework.html

 

[rudeguy]

Please. FMJ ammo is readily available in 5.45x39 which means negligible lead fouling & never touching any lead when using it.

if we could eliminate over 25% of the deaths from guns every year, would you support it? Even if it meant banning a gun that is currently perfectly legal?

 

[BoberFett]

I'm enjoying the irrational mewling.

LOL! Jhhnn, who himself is responsible for a large percentage of the posts in this thread, says he's here for the irrational mewling.

He's here for mewling all right, but not in the way he has convinced himself...

 

[Jhhnn]

if we could eliminate over 25% of the deaths from guns every year, would you support it? Even if it meant banning a gun that is currently perfectly legal?

The need to duh-vert is strong in this one...

 

[Nebor]

The need to duh-vert is strong in this one...

It seems like a pretty fair question to gauge if you're actually pro-gun in principle.

There could be a Newton style school shooting every day for a month and I'd never support more gun laws. Principle.

 

[rudeguy]

It seems like a pretty fair question to gauge if you're actually pro-gun in principle.

There could be a Newton style school shooting every day for a month and I'd never support more gun laws. Principle.

I'm open to new gun laws. I'm not open to banning things based on fantasy. If this were Obamas first gun issue, it would not be news worthy. But add in his statements after his gun control bill failed and his new affection for executive orders and you have my attention.

 

[irishScott]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/10/atf-shelves-controversial-bullet-ban-proposal/

Other news agencies are beginning to report the same. Glad the ATF came to their senses on this one.

Edit:
ATF Press Release: http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2...-piercing-ammunition-exemption-framework.html

They haven't come to their senses on anything. All the language I'm reading says they've temporarily backed off until things cool down or a good distraction comes along. God forbid a single cop get shot with an AR pistol from now until the end of time.

But that's par for the course with gun control, minor victory is still a victory.

 

[Jhhnn]

It seems like a pretty fair question to gauge if you're actually pro-gun in principle.

There could be a Newton style school shooting every day for a month and I'd never support more gun laws. Principle.

That's nowhere close to the topic at hand, which is enthusiasts all in a well choreographed uproar over a proposed ban on a particular round when it's obvious that it won't really make shit for difference to them in any practical way. Well, unless they figure they'll need armor piercing rounds to turn back the gun grabber Armageddon.

Maybe that's all the principle involved.

 

[irishScott]

I'm open to new gun laws. I'm not open to banning things based on fantasy. If this were Obamas first gun issue, it would not be news worthy. But add in his statements after his gun control bill failed and his new affection for executive orders and you have my attention.

This. I don't oppose gun control because I think gun control in general is a bad idea, I oppose it because virtually every single piece of proposed gun control in the US has zero hard data to back it up and zero plausible effectiveness on reducing gun crime, all with the well-established guarantee that further, even more ludicrous "reasonable gun laws" will follow.

In a perfect world I'd be in favor of very strict gun control, because in a perfect world you could implement such regulation without worrying about potential corruption/irrationality of those in charge. Unfortunately corruption and irrationality seems to define much of our government's policy, case in point this attempted ammo ban.

 

[irishScott]

That's nowhere close to the topic at hand, which is enthusiasts all in a well choreographed uproar over a proposed ban on a particular round when it's obvious that it won't really make shit for difference to them in any practical way. Well, unless they figure they'll need armor piercing rounds to turn back the gun grabber Armageddon.

Maybe that's all the principle involved.

It'll make a difference by cutting military surplus ammunition out of the market and driving up ammo prices for no good reason.

But then again we've established you aren't here for facts.

 

[rudeguy]

It'll make a difference by cutting military surplus ammunition out of the market and driving up ammo prices for no good reason.

But then again we've established you aren't here for facts.

Really. On the gun boards this issue turned into some pretty interesting debate on ammo, it's use, and what the 2nd amendment guarantees us and how that interacts with gun laws. But here we get ignorant people spewing whatever they can to defend their Dear Leader and avoid the real subject.

It's too bad because there are some really interesting points to make but they would be wasted on this thread.

 

[Jhhnn]

It'll make a difference by cutting military surplus ammunition out of the market and driving up ammo prices for no good reason.

But then again we've established you aren't here for facts.

Funny that. M193 lead core ammo is standard issue, near as I can tell. Perhaps you can lead me to actual surplus 5.56 rather than the different flavors of new 5.56.

 

[irishScott]

Funny that. M193 lead core ammo is standard issue, near as I can tell. Perhaps you can lead me to actual surplus 5.56 rather than the different flavors of new 5.56.

It's out of stock right now, but here you go:
http://www.ammoman.com/556-nato-lake-city-xm855cs-fmj-full-metal-jacket-62-grain-250

As for the standard issue round, my understanding is M193 was the standard round for the M16A2. Once the transition to the M4 was made M855 became the standard, at least for the Army.

 

[frowertr]

The M855 currently on the market isn't military surplus. The U.S. Military transitioned to M855A1 some years ago. This is all new M855 that is being manufactured geared toward civilian use.

However, I still agree with irish that removing it from the market will of course drive up costs being surplus or not.

 

[Nebor]

There are still billions of rounds of M855 in the US military inventory, but the M855A1 is the official replacement. To be honest the only place I've seen the M855A1 (bronze tip) commonly used is Afghanistan. Too much green tip ammo that still needs to be used in the States.

 

[Jhhnn]

The M855 currently on the market isn't military surplus. The U.S. Military transitioned to M855A1 some years ago. This is all new M855 that is being manufactured geared toward civilian use.

However, I still agree with irish that removing it from the market will of course drive up costs being surplus or not.

That depends on how much currently exists & how quickly any ban might take place. I seriously doubt that production costs are lower than for M193 ammo.

If there's a 6 month supply & the ban takes place a year from declaration, it's a moot point.

Enthusiasts running up the price of M855 should a ban be announced shouldn't affect the price of M193 ammo at all. That's just fad pricing, to be nice about it.