The problem is, without the oversight the paranoid produces, those with the opposite side paranoia would have zero guns available to civilians if they could have it. So really it's a matter of not being able to let ones guard down against essentially a delusionally fanatical group of gun grabbers. You give an inch, it's further progress into achieving their mile.
Correct.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2sWiZ8BizI
That is an ATF special agent saying on the news that an airsoft gun can be easily converted into a machine gun. These are the people who make the rules. They are supposed to be the experts and instead they talk like they get their knowledge from playing CoD.
Misinformation is our biggest enemy. The left spreads it until it is believed as fact and attacks anyone who dares speak the truth. Jhhnn's first posts in this thread prove that.
Pistol is a gun designed for operation with one hand. Handgun is simply a hand held firearm. A 1911 is a pistol. An AR pistol is...a handgun. 5.56 is a rifle round, and AR pistols don't let you regulate 5.56 as a pistol round.
It isn't splitting hairs, really. It's looking at the letter of the law, which is that the ATF can regulate *pistol* AP rounds. 9mm, .45ACP - those are pistol rounds. 5.7mm is a pistol round (sorry, P90.) 5.56, 7.62x39, 5.45 and such are RIFLE or HANDGUN rounds...and thus not something the ATF can regulate. They admitted as much by saying M855 is an exempted round.
I don't think that your differentiation of pistol and handgun is part of the law. It certainly doesn't appear to be from this link Venix offered early on
a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).
a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand
ATF is granted the authority to regulate "armor piercing" ammunition (quoted because the statutory definition of AP differs wildly from the real world definition) by 18 U.S. Code § 921, which refers to "handguns," not "pistols."
It defines a handgun as "a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand," so I suppose you could argue that AR-15 pistols don't meet that definition due to the forward handguard. However, successfully convincing the ATF of that would make AR-15 pistols "any other weapon" under the NFA, subject to federal registration and a tax stamp. I think the current situation is preferable.
Misinformation is our biggest enemy. The left spreads it until it is believed as fact and attacks anyone who dares speak the truth. Jhhnn's first posts in this thread prove that.
ATF is granted the authority to regulate "armor piercing" ammunition (quoted because the statutory definition of AP differs wildly from the real world definition) by 18 U.S. Code § 921, which refers to "handguns," not "pistols."
It defines a handgun as "a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand," so I suppose you could argue that AR-15 pistols don't meet that definition due to the forward handguard. However, successfully convincing the ATF of that would make AR-15 pistols "any other weapon" under the NFA, subject to federal registration and a tax stamp. I think the current situation is preferable.
That's dishonest. Everybody in the thread was misinformed wrt the proposed ban prior to post #66.
At this point, gun grabbers are a figment of the imagination, an indulgence in paranoid fantasy. They have no real traction among the electorate. If anything, gun rights have been extended in recent years through SCOTUS rulings that I agree with entirely.
Enthusiasts do themselves no real favors in terms of public perception by making this into a cause celebre'. Put yourself on the other side if it. Few people realize that AP ammo is legal in some calibers, nor do they have any idea why enthusiasts would prefer it. They don't really see why it should be legal. In that context, the ravers merely raise the alarm on the other side. Even the most ill informed understand that AP ammo penetrates much better providing greater opportunity for innocents to be hit in urban gunplay. They're more likely to think in terms of the practical than the ideological & don't understand why any AP ammo would be so precious to enthusiasts. That's when they engage in some speculation of their own, the counter point being common theme all through this thread.
"I believe in the 2nd amendment, but..."
What?
Just because you were ignorant, wrong, insulting and arrogant doesn't mean everyone else was. If it weren't for your idiotic posts, this thread would have been completely different. You were the one casting stones in this thread. You were the one who made this thread what it is. Now you are saying its the gun guys' fault?
Once again I ask: Why do you have well over 25% of the posts in this thread?
This is just another video in a long list where the govt and left lie about guns. This ATF agent flat out lied on camera. Then lied to the news when he said the ATF performed the testing and were able to convert an airsoft rifle into a machine gun. Then hides behind the freedom of information act when asked for proof of his ridiculous claims.
You're remarkably adept at hurf burfing. It's all you seem to be able to accomplish in this thread. When you read something you don't like, you just say it's wrong. when challenged wrt specifics, you ignore it so as to defend what you believe independent of reason.
I was admittedly mistaken in not realizing that the BATFE had proposed a ban on M855 ammo. I wasn't alone in that, if you'd care to go back & verify that.
And, hey, if this thread didn't turn into a complete paranoid circle jeck as such threads often do, it's only natural that you'd be disappointed. Best stock up on M855 while you can get it. Ya never know when gun grabber armageddon might happen, & I'm sure you'll want to go out in a blaze of Glory, right?
Thank you.
With enough equipment, tools, know how and "liberal" interpretation of a machine gun, it could be done.
The FOIA prevents anyone from finding out how it was done.
I am sure an airsoft "could" be re-engineered by inserting needed components inside the external mold. How well it could hold up under use would be a different story - but that is details that some feel does not count.
Thank you for what? I was more or less right, you were wrong. There IS actually a definition of handgun versus pistol. And I think revolvers are an even different definition - it might fit under handgun, but it cannot fit under pistol since the chamber moves.
Selective comprehension, ehh?
You're still trying to split the smallest of hairs in a way that the law does not. Venix showed you that, but you simply refuse to comprehend it.
Once again I ask: Why do you have well over 25% of the posts in this thread?
Given that the first shots of the revolutionary war were in response to attempted seizure of arms and given that the second speaks about a militia, it is entirely reasonable to conclude that the second speaks specifically to arms capable of taking on military.But it was written in a different time. Long barreled black powder smoothbore flintlocks were generally the weapons of the day. Rifled barrels were unusual, as were breechloaders. Repeaters had multiple barrels. Neither the percussion cap nor smokeless powder had been invented, let alone cartridges as we know them. Even the minie ball wasn't invented until much later.
It was also a frontier society with hostiles on our borders, as well.
It's impossible to say how they would have felt about modern firearms.
I'm sure that there was a lot of doom preaching when the FFA was passed back in 1934 and also when mail order guns were banned in the wake of the Kennedy assassination, too. So where are we today? We have even greater selection of firearms & ammo than ever before. Funny that.
this seems like splitting hairs, but what's the difference between a pistol and a handgun? much like the "assault rifle vs. assault weapon" argument, i'm sure there's a real, meaningful technical distinction that is not commonly known. hell, i own a pistol (handgun? stoeger cougar 9mm) and don't know what that distinction is.
Pistol is a gun designed for operation with one hand. Handgun is simply a hand held firearm. A 1911 is a pistol. An AR pistol is...a handgun. 5.56 is a rifle round, and AR pistols don't let you regulate 5.56 as a pistol round.
It isn't splitting hairs, really. It's looking at the letter of the law, which is that the ATF can regulate *pistol* AP rounds. 9mm, .45ACP - those are pistol rounds. 5.7mm is a pistol round (sorry, P90.) 5.56, 7.62x39, 5.45 and such are RIFLE or HANDGUN rounds...and thus not something the ATF can regulate. They admitted as much by saying M855 is an exempted round.
I don't think that your differentiation of pistol and handgun is part of the law. It certainly doesn't appear to be from this link Venix offered early on-
http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fi..._primarily_intended_for_sporting_purposes.pdf
The reason 855 ammo is so popular is just because it's there. There's no discernible reason that enthusiasts would prefer it over lead core nor any indication that they actually do. Nor is there any indication that it's actually less expensive overall.
The rest? Just the usual paranoia in a teapot routine. If 855 were banned, ammo makers would just load more lead core, sell that instead. Why wouldn't they?
The GCA provisions defining and governing armor piecing ammunition
were originally enacted in the Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act of 1986 (P.L. 99-408) (“LEOPA”. The primary goal of the LEOPA provisions regarding armor piecing ammunition was the protection of police officers from death or injury as the result of the criminal use of handgun ammunition capable of penetrating protective vests (soft body armor).
But it was written in a different time. Long barreled black powder smoothbore flintlocks were generally the weapons of the day. Rifled barrels were unusual, as were breechloaders. Repeaters had multiple barrels. Neither the percussion cap nor smokeless powder had been invented, let alone cartridges as we know them. Even the minie ball wasn't invented until much later.
It was also a frontier society with hostiles on our borders, as well.
It's impossible to say how they would have felt about modern firearms.
I'm sure that there was a lot of doom preaching when the FFA was passed back in 1934 and also when mail order guns were banned in the wake of the Kennedy assassination, too. So where are we today? We have even greater selection of firearms & ammo than ever before. Funny that.
At a much higher price,and finding ammo is a crap shoot.
@ 30 cents a round they can keep it.
It was much cheaper last September.