ATF reclassification of M885 (AR15 ammo situation) a "publishing error"

[Jhhnn]

You are sounding more paranoid about gun owners than people who are annoyed at something they regulary buy being banned over something that has never happened. But like Londo said both sides of an issue tend to have panty wadders.

Only gun freaks can get all twitchy & paranoid over something that never happened wrt something so piddly that it didn't matter in the first place. Here's the truth of the matter-

Just the way it is.

 

[piasabird]

When I was in Alaska in the Army I remember seeing this odd looking shotgun called a "Street Sweeper". It is an odd looking shotgun with a drum capable of loading and firing 12 each 12 guage shotgun shells. It was not that great of a weapon, but the ATF did not like it. The ATF had the gun classified as a destructive device with no sporting application. That means you had to have a special permit just to own one. The ATF can pretty much do whatever it wants.

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2001-1.html

 

[highland145]

lol The more Jhhnn posts....but, but, but it didn't happen....you still have your guns...

When I was in Alaska in the Army I remember seeing this odd looking shotgun called a "Street Sweeper". It is an odd looking shotgun with a drum capable of loading and firing 12 each 12 guage shotgun shells. It was not that great of a weapon, but the ATF did not like it. The ATF had the gun classified as a destructive device with no sporting application. That means you had to have a special permit just to own one. The ATF can pretty much do whatever it wants.

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2001-1.html

I know a guy...that has a Saiga 12 with a 20 rnd drum. The zombies have been put on notice.

 

[DCal430]

Guns like this need to be banned as well as the ammo. No one needs a weapon of mass murder. Why do you need to be able to kill hundreds to thousands of people in minutes?

 

[Meghan54]

When I was in Alaska in the Army I remember seeing this odd looking shotgun called a "Street Sweeper". It is an odd looking shotgun with a drum capable of loading and firing 12 each 12 guage shotgun shells. It was not that great of a weapon, but the ATF did not like it. The ATF had the gun classified as a destructive device with no sporting application. That means you had to have a special permit just to own one. The ATF can pretty much do whatever it wants.

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2001-1.html

So, Bush's ATF was bad, then, because that's when that ban was put into place.....2001. If the ban was wrong, couldn't the then current administration have just put a stop to the ban? And why wasn't it stopped?

 

[highland145]

Guns like this need to be banned as well as the ammo. No one needs a weapon of mass murder. Why do you need to be able to kill hundreds to thousands of people in minutes?

No. Just ban the magazines. Once they're empty then the guns are just clubs.

 

[highland145]

So, Bush's ATF was bad, then, because that's when that ban was put into place.....2001. If the ban was wrong, couldn't the then current administration have just put a stop to the ban? And why wasn't it stopped?

Ha, screw him too.



'sup, Jeff. All's well, I hope. Nice days, the fish should be biting.

 

[Meghan54]

Title per the ultra-left-wing "source": NRA's LaPierre Reveals "Obama Conspiracy" To Fool Gun Owners, Repeal Second Amendment

"not grabbing yer guns is really grabbing yer guns"

as expected... waaaaayyyy out of context and a lie

What he really said, boiled down a bit: Just because Obie hasn't grabbed yer guns, don't think it's off the table in his second term. Not even close to "not grabbing yer guns is really grabbing yer guns."

And it seems pretty reasonable and in line with the reality of Obama's and Eric Holder's recent statements against gun ownership -- as recently as yesterday.

I'll give you that he uses the word "conspiracy" a bit too often... but other than that, your take is BS... just like I knew it would be.

I really wish you and your fellow liberals/democrats could make an actual argument for or against something that conservatives or republicans generally disagree with without lying. I think it's annoying... but maybe that's why you do it? I dunno, but your constant lies devalue everything else you say that might actually be a good point.

edit: And here's his same speech in full context http://home.nra.org/history/video/w...-2011-in-florida/list/wayne-lapierre-speeches .... hardly "raving"

Did you even listen to what you linked?

Here's an exerpt.....at the 2:40 mark, LaPierre says:

[President Obama will] remind us that he's put off calls from his party to renew the old Clinton gun ban, he hasn't pushed for new gun control laws, and he'll even say he looked the other way when Congress passed a couple of minor pro-gun bills by huge majorities. The president will offer the Second Amendment lip service and hit the campaign trail saying he's actually been good for the Second Amendment.

But it's a big fat stinking lie, just like all the other lies that have come out of this corrupt administration. It's all part -- it's all part of a massive Obama conspiracy to deceive voters and hide his true intentions to destroy the Second Amendment in our country.

At the 3:06 mark:

Before the President was even sworn into office, they met and they hatched a conspiracy of public deception to try to guarantee his re-election in 2012.

At the 5:50 mark:

And Obama himself is no fool. So when he got elected, they concocted a scheme to stay away from the gun issue, lull gun owners to sleep, and play us for fools in 2012. Well, gun owners are not fools, and we are not fooled. We see the president's strategy crystal clear: get re-elected, and with no other re-elections to worry about, get busy dismantling and destroying our firearms freedom. Erase the Second Amendment from the Bill of Rights and exorcise it from the U.S. Constitution. That's their agenda.

Those are LaPierre's exact words.


And a lot of the rest of the filler, errrr....speech, is about how Obama and his administration were trying to hide their conspiracy to "erase" the 2nd Amendment during his first term and spring it on the public as soon as his second term begins.

Not raving, true, but I think LaPierre needs to have his meds restarted. Paranoia is a terrible thing.

 

[Jhhnn]

lol The more Jhhnn posts....but, but, but it didn't happen....you still have your guns...


I know a guy...that has a Saiga 12 with a 20 rnd drum. The zombies have been put on notice.

Yep- absolutely nothing happened, and it wouldn't have mattered if it had.

It's like when hunters were forced to use steel shot for waterfowl. The raving was epic, the actual effect on duck hunting wasn't shit.

Like the penguin said- no one's going to take your guns away. Relax & enjoy it. You scare people when you act all paranoid.

 

[ivwshane]

Say what you will about Wayne but one thing is clear, he sure knows his audience!

Did you even listen to what you linked?

Here's an exerpt.....at the 2:40 mark, LaPierre says:




At the 3:06 mark:



At the 5:50 mark:



Those are LaPierre's exact words.


And a lot of the rest of the filler, errrr....speech, is about how Obama and his administration were trying to hide their conspiracy to "erase" the 2nd Amendment during his first term and spring it on the public as soon as his second term begins.

Not raving, true, but I think LaPierre needs to have his meds restarted. Paranoia is a terrible thing.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

I don't understand, the form in reference was to an exemption list, a list that was and still currently exempts green tipped ammunition. They are currently reevaluating that exemption, therefore until something changes why would they not correct their mistake?

What am I missing?

Bringing this back on topic...

What you are missing is that they update this every 10 years or something so from what I gather the 2005 is overwritten by this new one. The new list of exempt hasnt been published? Or I don't know but the new one is magically missing a section that has been part of discussions by this admin and others. A bit curious? Warrants a look see imo.

 

[ivwshane]

Bringing this back on topic...

What you are missing is that they update this every 10 years or something so from what I gather the 2005 is overwritten by this new one. The new list of exempt hasnt been published? Or I don't know but the new one is magically missing a section that has been part of discussions by this admin and others. A bit curious? Warrants a look see imo.

You didn't do anything to further the discussion. The regulations guide 2014 edition was simply an update to the 2005 guide, there was an error, they fixed, conspiracy not found.

Do you have something of substance to add or would you like to continue with your gut feeling?

 

[Meghan54]

I wonder what color this rouge individual is? Girls with red cheeks make me hot.

Funny, and funnier, the OP missed this....flew right over his head.

Guess the OP is seeing rouge about the rogue individual.

 

[Triumph]

Guns like this need to be banned as well as the ammo. No one needs a weapon of mass murder. Why do you need to be able to kill hundreds to thousands of people in minutes?

Guns like what? The M855 gun?

 

[SlowSpyder]

Damn, sounds just like the potheads when it comes to marijuana laws.

I think many of the arguments used for gun rights apply to drugs, and vice versa.

 

[Angry Irishman]

You didn't do anything to further the discussion. The regulations guide 2014 edition was simply an update to the 2005 guide, there was an error, they fixed, conspiracy not found.

Do you have something of substance to add or would you like to continue with your gut feeling?

Yea, there were no motives behind any of this....just a clerical mistake that was fixed....

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/mar/2/white-house-says-ammo-ban-will-save-cops-lives/

 

[Jhhnn]

Yea, there were no motives behind any of this....just a clerical mistake that was fixed....

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/mar/2/white-house-says-ammo-ban-will-save-cops-lives/

The best part about all of this is that steel core ammo offers no advantage to sportsmen over lead core ammo, making the whole flap just a demonstration of gun freak paranoia.

On top of that, steel core 5.56 ammo hasn't been banned at all.

Yeh, yeh, I know- "But they wanna do it!"

So what if they did? Enthusiasts would still be able to buy all the lead core 5.56 ammo that their hearts desire.

Must be one of those "Freedumb!" things.

 

[Exterous]

Swing and a miss!

Nothing happened

Nothing happened? So there wasn't an 'omission' on an offical document that opened the door for potential legal action against those who owned the round? (It removed the only official rules saying it was ok to own the round).

Mistake or not it is a very valid criticism that important classification documents (like those dealing with felonies) should not have 'publication errors'.

And I say this as a non-gun owner

 

[Jhhnn]

Nothing happened? So there wasn't an 'omission' on an offical document that opened the door for potential legal action against those who owned the round? (It removed the only official rules saying it was ok to own the round).

Mistake or not it is a very valid criticism that important classification documents (like those dealing with felonies) should not have 'publication errors'.

And I say this as a non-gun owner

Yawn. Life isn't perfect. No door was opened. Any mistake has been corrected. No harm no foul.

Don't play into the paranoia.

 

[ivwshane]

Nothing happened? So there wasn't an 'omission' on an offical document that opened the door for potential legal action against those who owned the round? (It removed the only official rules saying it was ok to own the round).

Mistake or not it is a very valid criticism that important classification documents (like those dealing with felonies) should not have 'publication errors'.

And I say this as a non-gun owner

What legal action happened because of this? None? Oh so you are resorting to hypotheticals? What else in fairytale land might happen?

 

[WackyDan]

This M885 ammo ban is pretty fucking stupid to react to and I say that as a gun owner.

When I look at the vast majority of AR-15s being used at the range I see mostly cheap ARs that are built to fire .223 not 5.56. Can they fire 5.56? Sure they can, but the higher pressures of 5.56 load and harder brass due to that take a toll on the weapon's internals. A lot of cheap ARs are ruined within a 1000 rounds of using 5.56.

Unless you spent north of $1600 on a quality AR or knew what the fuck you were doing when you sourced your parts, I would avoid 5.56 like the plague.... and even then, I avoid 5.56 because my 55 grain boat tails in .223 have far better ballistics than the 5.56 I've ever shot and that has held true whether I was firing an M16/M4 or an AR.

I know many of my fellow gun lovers are up in arms over this, and I get the whole slippery slope thing. We were never promised or guaranteed access to military surplus ammo to begin with for starters. Second, I get that when the world goes to shit you want available ammo regardless of whether it is 5.56 or .223 for your AR. My point is, it doesn't fucking matter and shouldn't matter to you.

1. This isn't a ban. It is/was a proposed restriction on the sale of a specific type of ammo consumed by the military.

2. This isn't a ban on all AR ammo. I can't tell you how many social media posts I've seen calling it that.

Reacting like uneducated stupid fucking morons doesn't make us seem all that rational does it?

 

[Exterous]

Yawn. Life isn't perfect. No door was opened. Any mistake has been corrected. No harm no foul.

The part that really bothers me is that excuse doesn't work when dealing with the government. I can guarantee you if we were to omit or make a mistake on part of our paperwork obligations to the government saying 'Yawn. Life isn't perfect' is NOT going to get the fees\penalties removed.

Is this a big deal? Not now. Is it a conspiracy? Likely not. Is the government hypocritical in how it handles mistakes? Absolutely.

What legal action happened because of this? None? Oh so you are resorting to hypotheticals? What else in fairytale land might happen?

You realize that a giant part of the government runs on hypotheticals right?
This is not some sort of fantasy land where hypoteticals don't matter or impact life\society

 

[DCal430]

Guns like what? The M855 gun?

Yes, weapons that kill countless people in minutes.

 

[frowertr]

Yes, weapons that kill countless people in minutes.

You got trolled and didn't even know it. Classic anti-gun nutter who doesn't know shit about guns.

 

[ivwshane]

The part that really bothers me is that excuse doesn't work when dealing with the government. I can guarantee you if we were to omit or make a mistake on part of our paperwork obligations to the government saying 'Yawn. Life isn't perfect' is NOT going to get the fees\penalties removed.

Is this a big deal? Not now. Is it a conspiracy? Likely not. Is the government hypocritical in how it handles mistakes? Absolutely.



You realize that a giant part of the government runs on hypotheticals right?
This is not some sort of fantasy land where hypoteticals don't matter or impact life\society

The government doesn't run on hysteria, there are multiple checks and balances to make sure that doesn't happen. You getting your panties in a bunch for a mistake that caused zero hardship is stupid.

If you'd like to continue this stupid tirade you can do it alone but know that your faux outrage is fooling no one.