Atheist Church Opens in 35 more Towns!

[moonbogg]

Not so. There are Buddhists that believe their religion isn't the only religion but that it is their religion.

Is it because they think that God is experiencing his creation through each of us? Therefore each religion is just as legit as the next, because its all part of God's cosmic drama that he created for himself? The Buddhists still think they know the truth and that others aren't awakened yet, right?
So, the Buddhists think each religion is false, but they play along because its part of the "game", is that right? (insert "you are wrong moonbogg" here)

 

[piasabird]

I don't think they qualify as a church. Sounds like a social club. What do you call a church with no religion? A Christian Scientist? It is just taking some philosophy and calling it religion. The church of the Godless?

Just take your hobby like a Car Club or motorcycle gang and call it a church and maybe build a club house and make your hobby tax deductible. What is the point? Sounds like a political non-profit group.

 

[alzan]

I'm not sure why we're discussing these assemblies as 'churches'. The people involved certainly don't seem to do so.

Did no one bother to read their Public Charter?

I think that's a question appropriate for the OP.

 

[bradley]

Buddhism, Taoism, and Scientology are also affiliations that don’t believe in God, but they’re still considered religions and receive tax exemptions.

The below pastor has no problem labeling himself as part of an atheist church; he even preaches from a pulpit and wears religious garb only absent of a clerical collar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egFaJXFTBbw&t=2m42s

So yeah, atheists have a belief system based in countering an eternal truth and a community with gatherings directed at understanding based in this ultimate truth... the very description of a religion.

Atheist organizations also receive the same 503C tax exempt status. Under the law they are considered religious organizations.

 

[datalink7]

Buddhism, Taoism, and Scientology are also affiliations that don’t believe in God, but they’re still considered religions and receive tax exemptions.

The below pastor has no problem labeling himself as part of an atheist church; he even preaches from a pulpit and wears religious garb only absent of a clerical collar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egFaJXFTBbw&t=2m42s

So yeah, atheists have a belief system based in countering an eternal truth and a community with gatherings directed at understanding based in this ultimate truth... the very description of a religion.

Atheist organizations also receive the same 503C tax exempt status. Under the law they are considered religious organizations.

503C tax exemption status doesn't mean they are religions.

Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) are commonly referred to as charitable organizations

The exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3) are charitable, religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or international amateur sports competition, and preventing cruelty to children or animals. The term charitable is used in its generally accepted legal sense and includes relief of the poor, the distressed, or the underprivileged; advancement of religion; advancement of education or science; erecting or maintaining public buildings, monuments, or works; lessening the burdens of government; lessening neighborhood tensions; eliminating prejudice and discrimination; defending human and civil rights secured by law; and combating community deterioration and juvenile delinquency.

http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-...rposes-Internal-Revenue-Code-Section-501(c)(3)

 

[OverVolt]

Buddhism, Taoism, and Scientology are also affiliations that don’t believe in God, but they’re still considered religions and receive tax exemptions.

The below pastor has no problem labeling himself as part of an atheist church; he even preaches from a pulpit and wears religious garb only absent of a clerical collar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egFaJXFTBbw&t=2m42s

So yeah, atheists have a belief system based in countering an eternal truth and a community with gatherings directed at understanding based in this ultimate truth... the very description of a religion.

Atheist organizations also receive the same 503C tax exempt status. Under the law they are considered religious organizations.

So I guess Atheism is a religion as much as channel 0 still uses a slice of the electromagnetic spectrum

 

[bradley]

503C tax exemption status doesn't mean they are religions.

http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-...rposes-Internal-Revenue-Code-Section-501(c)(3)

The IRS (and DOJ) has asserted that American atheist organizations are tax exempt eligible under the *identical* benefits granted churches, and could indeed register as churches. So I guess you don't deem Buddhism or Taoism religions or that either can be an atheistic system of thought or philosophy. Or perhaps your opinion would be more relevant if you too owned a church.

BTW, Minister Jerry Dewitt is asking for donations for his secular community at his Community Mission Chapel. Don't see how this scenario is any different than a church of Scientology.
http://www.patreon.com/jerrydewitt

 

[OverVolt]

Maybe Athiests should be be Acommunitists?

 

[Victorian Gray]

The IRS (and DOJ) has asserted that American atheist organizations are tax exempt eligible under the *identical* benefits granted churches, and could indeed register as churches. So I guess you don't deem Buddhism or Taoism religions or that either can be an atheistic system of thought or philosophy. Or perhaps your opinion would be more relevant if you too owned a church.

BTW, Minister Jerry Dewitt is asking for donations for his secular community at his Community Mission Chapel. Don't see how this scenario is any different than a church of Scientology.
http://www.patreon.com/jerrydewitt

You are misrepresenting their argument:

"On December 12, 2012, American Atheists and two co-plaintiffs filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in the Eastern District of Kentucky demanding that the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) stop giving preferential treatment to churches and religious organizations via the process of receiving non-profit tax-exempt status under the Internal Revue Code (IRC) procedures and definitions.


Groups like American Atheists receive tax-exempt status under Internal Revenue Code 501(c)(3) but, because the organization is not classified as religious, it costs American Atheists and other secular non-profits significantly more money each year to maintain that status. In this lawsuit, American atheists and the other plaintiffs are demanding that all tax-exempt organizations, including those characterized as religious by the IRS, have the same requirements to achieve and maintain tax-exempt status.


In order to qualify for nonprofit tax-exempt status, any religious or secular organization must demonstrate it exists to benefit the public. After that basic element is established, religious non-profits are almost always declared automatically tax-exempt under the current IRC rules and definitions. However, secular non-profits face a lengthy application and a fee, which can be as high as $850.


Religious organizations and churches are treated differently from secular organizations. The exemptions are applied in a way that discriminates solely on the basis of whether an entity’s members express beliefs and practices accepted as religious. The IRS treats your organization better if you profess belief in a supernatural deity.


The lawsuit also covers discrepancies in how secular and religious organizations are treated in maintaining their tax-exempt statuses. Secular nonprofits complete Form 990 annually, which details information about finances, donors, volunteers, and personnel; the IRS estimates it requires 211 hours to complete the Form 990, which is then public information. Religious nonprofits are exempted from filing the Form 990, so there is no public record about their finances, donors, volunteers, or personnel.
This requirement can put organizations like American Atheists at a fundraising disadvantage compared to religious groups because many people choose not to reveal their atheism for fear of prejudice and discrimination.


American Atheists and its co-plaintiffs are asking the Court to find that such disparity of treatment between religious and secular non-profit organizations is unconstitutional and require the IRS to make the tax-exempt filing process uniform for all nonprofit organizations."


http://atheists.org/legal/current/IRS

 

[datalink7]

The IRS (and DOJ) has asserted that American atheist organizations are tax exempt eligible under the *identical* benefits granted churches, and could indeed register as churches.

Link?

So I guess you don't deem Buddhism or Taoism religions or that either can be an atheistic system of thought or philosophy. Or perhaps your opinion would be more relevant if you too owned a church.

BTW, Minister Jerry Dewitt is asking for donations for his secular community at his Community Mission Chapel. Don't see how this scenario is any different than a church of Scientology.
http://www.patreon.com/jerrydewitt

"Minister" Jerry Dewitt appears to be a twit. I'm unsure how one mans assertions anyway is supposed to change the definition of something?

According to Wikipedia:

A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence. Many religions have narratives, symbols, and sacred histories that are intended to explain the meaning of life and/or to explain the origin of life or the Universe.

According to Merriman Webster:

Full Definition of RELIGION

1
a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>
b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2
: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3
archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4
: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

According to Oxford:

The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods

"Atheism" doesn't fit any of these.

 

[bradley]

You are misrepresenting their argument:


American Atheists and its co-plaintiffs are asking the Court to find that such disparity of treatment between religious and secular non-profit organizations is unconstitutional and require the IRS to make the tax-exempt filing process uniform for all nonprofit organizations."


http://atheists.org/legal/current/IRS

Did you read the actual ruling?

The judge stated, "in the First Amendment context, atheism is considered a religion because &#8220;when a person sincerely holds beliefs dealing with issues of &#8216;ultimate concern&#8217; that for her occupy a &#8216;place parallel to that filled by . . . God in traditionally religious persons,&#8217; those beliefs represent her religion.&#8221; Ouchie

The ruling states that American Atheists haven't any standing and cannot demonstrate any harm. Basically the court asked them why they didn't apply as a legal organization to get the same benefits as a church. And they answered that it would violate their beliefs against being considered a religious organization. Right?

The judge also mentioned that religious organizations, &#8220;do not necessarily require a theistic or deity-centered meaning. So according to the law, there&#8217;s nothing that states an atheist group couldn't be considered a religion and receive preferential tax treatment" and therefore they cannot establish an Equal Protection claim because it's unclear. Double Ouchie

The IRS replied that &#8220;atheist and non-theist organizations may be eligible for treatment as religious organizations or churches under the I.R.C&#8221; counter to American Atheists' claims.

The case went down in flames with the judge telling the atheists to first bother filing under tax preferred status and their case again at a later date.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradley
The IRS (and DOJ) has asserted that American atheist organizations are tax exempt eligible under the *identical* benefits granted churches, and could indeed register as churches.

Link?


Quote:
So I guess you don't deem Buddhism or Taoism religions or that either can be an atheistic system of thought or philosophy. Or perhaps your opinion would be more relevant if you too owned a church.

BTW, Minister Jerry Dewitt is asking for donations for his secular community at his Community Mission Chapel. Don't see how this scenario is any different than a church of Scientology.
http://www.patreon.com/jerrydewitt

"Minister" Jerry Dewitt appears to be a twit. I'm unsure how one mans assertions anyway is supposed to change the definition of something?

According to Wikipedia:


Quote:
A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence. Many religions have narratives, symbols, and sacred histories that are intended to explain the meaning of life and/or to explain the origin of life or the Universe.

According to Merriman Webster:


Quote:
Full Definition of RELIGION

1
a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>
b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2
: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3
archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4
: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

According to Oxford:


Quote:
The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods

"Atheism" doesn't fit any of these.

nice try....Atheism has turned into a religion. Face it you lose.......so sorry!!

Even the courts have said that Atheism has turned into a religion --

The judge stated, "in the First Amendment context, atheism is considered a religion because &#8220;when a person sincerely holds beliefs dealing with issues of &#8216;ultimate concern&#8217; that for her occupy a &#8216;place parallel to that filled by . . . God in traditionally religious persons,&#8217; those beliefs represent her religion.&#8221; Ouchie

The ruling states that American Atheists haven't any standing and cannot demonstrate any harm. Basically the court asked them why they didn't apply as a legal organization to get the same benefits as a church. And they answered that it would violate their beliefs against being considered a religious organization. Right?

The judge also mentioned that religious organizations, &#8220;do not necessarily require a theistic or deity-centered meaning. So according to the law, there&#8217;s nothing that states an atheist group couldn't be considered a religion and receive preferential tax treatment" and therefore they cannot establish an Equal Protection claim because it's unclear. Double Ouchie

The IRS replied that &#8220;atheist and non-theist organizations may be eligible for treatment as religious organizations or churches under the I.R.C&#8221; counter to American Atheists' claims.

The case went down in flames with the judge telling the atheists to file under tax preferred status and try again at a later date.

 

[datalink7]

Did you read the actual ruling?

The judge stated, "in the First Amendment context, atheism is considered a religion because “when a person sincerely holds beliefs dealing with issues of ‘ultimate concern’ that for her occupy a ‘place parallel to that filled by . . . God in traditionally religious persons,’ those beliefs represent her religion.” Ouchie

Your constant obfuscation is quite annoying. Here's the actual quote from the ruling:

Rather, as Defendant points out, in the First Amendment context,
atheism is considered a religion because “when a person sincerely
holds beliefs dealing with issues of ‘ultimate concern’ that for her
occupy a ‘place parallel to that filled by . . . God in traditionally
religious persons,’ those beliefs represent her religion.” Kaufman v.
McCaughtry, 419 F.3d 678, 681-682 (7th Cir. 2005).

*Emphasis mine

Why would you take out the emphasis and replace that with "The Judge stated"?

 

[Victorian Gray]

nice try....Atheism has turned into a religion. Face it you lose.......so sorry!!

Even the courts have said that Atheism has turned into a religion --

And the atheists themselves say NO, WE ARE NOT so, who cares what anyone else says they are.

If I say you are a Muslim does that mean you really are a Muslim? You know, because I said you are a Muslim, and that I will treat you as a Muslim, I guess that means you really are a Muslim. Right?

 

[Subyman]

Do they really call it a church? If its just a group that likes to discuss issues in the secular world then what's the big deal? Religious churches tend to have great social options that atheists do not have an analog of, so it makes sense that they may want to make a place to gather and discuss their ideas and enjoy camaraderie.

 

[Ancalagon44]

Atheist Church is an oxymoron.

 

[TreVader]

This is dumb and I would call myself agnostic. Half of the problem with church is their retarded beliefs, and half of it is the stupid community. People aren't meant to congregate weekly.


Why would you make a religion about having no religion?

 

[WelshBloke]

nice try....Atheism has turned into a religion. Face it you lose.......so sorry!!

Even the courts have said that Atheism has turned into a religion --

Nice that you think that religion is basically defined as a tax dodge.

 

[Moonbeam]

Whatever their geographic origins religions intellectualy originate from fear of death, it was the pathetic mean find by human beings to be comfortable with the idea that one day we ll die, an imaginary world was created for the purpose where the human, using auto suggestion and lying to himself, is finaly victorious against what he despise the most, that his, his end, all the rest are myths build to sustain this auto suggested propaganda, i mean , one does really need to be gullible to death, if i can say so, to believe such illogic stories that never end contradicting themselves.

That's easy to say, I would think, if you didn't know the kingdom of heaven is within you. You probably never thought about what that means. Maybe you never realized that immortality happens when time ends, or that time is thought.

What if religion is just the detritus of some immortal from our past laying down a methodology by means of which he or she Intends to bring others to that state based on the nature of the people around. Every culture is blind in its own unique way.

 

[SlowSpyder]

nice try....Atheism has turned into a religion. Face it you lose.......so sorry!!

Even the courts have said that Atheism has turned into a religion --

Just because you say it doesn't make it true. I don't worship any god as I'm pretty sure they don't exist. I'm atheist and don't go to a church or weekly meeting and have zero intention of going to one. Out of all the atheists, how many do you think go to these things? I imagine the vast majority of atheists are like me, they go about their lives without thinking about it too much.

If for you, your religious belief's are based on a cornerstone of meeting with other somewhat like minded individuals once a week, then you should reexamine your faith. If that's not what your faith is about, then you'll understand why some atheists getting together once a week does not make it a religion.

 

[Retro Rob]

Do they really call it a church? If its just a group that likes to discuss issues in the secular world then what's the big deal? Religious churches tend to have great social options that atheists do not have an analog of, so it makes sense that they may want to make a place to gather and discuss their ideas and enjoy camaraderie.

I find this post sort of confusing. According to what I've come to understand over the years, atheists for quite a while, compared congregating other atheists to "herding cats" and that they weren't really interested in gathering together. Now that these "cats" are being herded, you seem OK with it, but don't want it called a "church" (which I can understand).

Could it be that you (they) were in denial about having a need to gather all along and now they're simply declining to fight against it?

It just seems to me that some atheists are simply reluctant to accept that FACT that they aren't really different from their religious counterparts, expect in the idea that they replace God with the Human mind, or science.

We always replace God with something else god-like.

 

[WelshBloke]

I find this post sort of confusing. According to what I've come to understand over the years, atheists for quite a while, compared congregating other atheists to "herding cats" and that they weren't really interested in gathering together. Now that these "cats" are being herded, you seem OK with it, but don't want it called a "church" (which I can understand).

Could it be that you (they) were in denial about having a need to gather all along and now they're simply declining to fight against it?

It just seems to me that some atheists are simply reluctant to accept that FACT that they aren't really different from their religious counterparts, expect in the idea that they replace God with the Human mind, or science.

We always replace God with something else god-like.

You seem to be under the idea that Atheists gather to talk about the lack of God in their lives.
I've never done that, never felt the need to do that and see no point to it.

That doesn't mean that I don't like to gather with people in social situations though, and if I was in a new area and didn't know anyone I'd maybe go to a secular social gathering (which is what these appear to be).

 

[Retro Rob]

You seem to be under the idea that Atheists get to gather to talk about the lack of God in their lives.

I didn't say anything remotely close to that.

I've never done that, never felt the need to do that and see no point to it.

But what I'm saying is that gathering with like-minded people is simply human...not just religious.

Atheists basically gather on the internet and spend most of their time talking about something the allegedly don't believe in...and that's God or gods.

You guys spend more time in religious discussions that you do secular, or scientific ones.

That doesn't mean that I don't like to gather with people in social situations though, and if I was in a new area and didn't know anyone I'd maybe go to a secular social gathering (which is what these appear to be).

I don't believe you, partially. Sure, you'd go to a social gathering, but not because you're new to an area -- you desire companionship etc, just like your everyday religious person.

 

[WelshBloke]

I didn't say anything remotely close to that.

But then...

Atheists basically gather on the internet and spend most of their time talking about something the allegedly don't believe in...and that's God or gods.

You guys spend more time in religious discussions that you do secular, or scientific ones.

Which is bollocks.

That would leave no time for porn, cat pictures or "your mum" jokes.

Seriously most Atheists don't mention it at all until it's brought up by someone else.

But what I'm saying is that gathering with like-minded people is simply human...not just religious.

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

I don't believe you, partially. Sure, you'd go to a social gathering, but not because you're new to an area -- you desire companionship etc, just like your everyday religious person.

I have companionship, if I was new to an area I wouldn't therefore I might go to one of these secular meetings.

Is a religious church firstly a place of worship or a social club? If I went to a church and gave my opinion of religion and said that I was only there for the company that would be OK. Doesn't sound like a lot of fun from my viewpoint.

 

[OutHouse]

maybe they should consider joining their local Odd Fellows chapter.