Atheists can be so stupid sometimes

[TruePaige]

This thread made me play this song:

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
...
We don't need to "raise awareness" for people who don't believe in ghosts ...

I agree. Those people are either already convinced or in doubt. It makes as much sense as trying to beat enlightenment into the heads of the religious. They're convinced of their beliefs for one reason or another and being bullied probably won't change their minds.

What these ads may accomplish indirectly though is to empower those who appear to be religious but have doubts (or know better but are trying to fit in). It might give someone the courage to go against the masses either privately or publicly. It also gives the children an alternative. This is the group that needs to be exposed to alternatives. This is the group that will perpetuate the myth.

So basically this is a big FUCK YOU to the Big Apple Coalition of Reason and any other atheists out there who are turning a lack of beliefs into a religion unto itself, making it difficult for reasonable atheists to defend our position that our mindset is not a religious one.

The only reason I'd disagree is if their seemingly incongruous methods enabled one religious person to un-suspend their suspension of disbelief. Like the organizations which championed women's suffrage, hopefully these coalitions will eventually cease to have purpose and disband.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: Crono
I've said it before: atheism can be hijacked just as any belief or system of beliefs, even though it's one that is loosely organized and solely dependent on the lack of belief in the existence of a god or gods. If atheism becomes the dominant view of most people (I think in practice most people are atheists), the "douchery" (for lack of a better term) of the general populace will be no different than when a religion is dominant, simply because in both cases people are hypocrites and will use whatever they want to jsutify doign whatever they want.

If we start taxing organized atheism, that should put a stop to all of this. :evil:

 

[glenn1]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
The Big Apple Coalition of Reason have started taking out pro-atheism ads on New York subways and buses recently. The goal is to "raise awareness" of people who don't believe in god. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've seen an atheist/humanist organization do.

We don't need to "raise awareness" for people who don't believe in ghosts, or "raise awareness" for people who don't believe in astrology, why do we need to do it for atheists? I have a fundamental problem with organized atheism, because it's just silly to have an organization of people who don't do something or don't believe in something. When was the last time you attended your "I don't believe in unicorns" meeting?

Furthermore this only reinforces what many religious people have been saying - atheism is becoming a religion. These IDIOTS at The Big Apple Coalition of Reason are employing extremely religious tactics - they are working to try to convert people, they are using in-your-face ads and shoving their (lack of) beliefs down other people's throats. It's offensive and it's counter-productive.

So basically this is a big FUCK YOU to the Big Apple Coalition of Reason and any other atheists out there who are turning a lack of beliefs into a religion unto itself, making it difficult for reasonable atheists to defend our position that our mindset is not a religious one.

Well then, how about setting up your own competing atheist/agnostic organization that actually does something positive rather than just putting up annoying billboards? You know, like start a soup kitchen, homeless shelter, home for victims of domestic violence, something. If you need some ideas, you might even be able to take a look at what some *gasp* churches are doing in their spare time that they're not engaged in those subversive activities like praying and whatnot.

 

[ultimatebob]

I don't see the problem in this... if religious right wing nutjobs can have public spokespeople like Glenn Beck speaking out for them on national TV every night, the least Atheists should be able to do is put out a few posters.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: Crono
I've said it before: atheism can be hijacked just as any belief or system of beliefs, even though it's one that is loosely organized and solely dependent on the lack of belief in the existence of a god or gods. If atheism becomes the dominant view of most people (I think in practice most people are atheists), the "douchery" (for lack of a better term) of the general populace will be no different than when a religion is dominant, simply because in both cases people are hypocrites and will use whatever they want to jsutify doign whatever they want.

If we start taxing organized atheism, that should put a stop to all of this. :evil:

I wholeheartedly support this - as long as religious organizations are also taxed. Other organizations, such as anti-terrorism groups, should be taxed also - since, hopefully, one day, they will no longer have any purpose.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: Crono
I've said it before: atheism can be hijacked just as any belief or system of beliefs, even though it's one that is loosely organized and solely dependent on the lack of belief in the existence of a god or gods. If atheism becomes the dominant view of most people (I think in practice most people are atheists), the "douchery" (for lack of a better term) of the general populace will be no different than when a religion is dominant, simply because in both cases people are hypocrites and will use whatever they want to jsutify doign whatever they want.

If we start taxing organized atheism, that should put a stop to all of this. :evil:

I wholeheartedly support this - as long as religious organizations are also taxed. Other organizations, such as anti-terrorism groups, should be taxed also - since, hopefully, one day, they will no longer have any purpose.

What about pro-terrorism groups like the people foolishly trying to shut down Gitmo?

 

[Vic]

Agree with the OP. Organized atheism would be just another religion.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Vic
Agree with the OP. Organized atheism would be just another religion.

And there is precedent, but not on a global scale or as an official movement. Usually atheism is incorporated into other movements because most of the world in the past has been either religious (god or gods) or having some kind of belief system incorporating the supernatural (animism, shamanism), and it's difficult to spread it as an organized entity without some kind of universal naturalistic belief system to lay the foundation.

Sorry to all the true atheists out there, because this will undoubtedly ruin the reputation of what you stand for. Welcome to the club?

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: Crono
I've said it before: atheism can be hijacked just as any belief or system of beliefs, even though it's one that is loosely organized and solely dependent on the lack of belief in the existence of a god or gods. If atheism becomes the dominant view of most people (I think in practice most people are atheists), the "douchery" (for lack of a better term) of the general populace will be no different than when a religion is dominant, simply because in both cases people are hypocrites and will use whatever they want to jsutify doign whatever they want.

If we start taxing organized atheism, that should put a stop to all of this. :evil:

I wholeheartedly support this - as long as religious organizations are also taxed. Other organizations, such as anti-terrorism groups, should be taxed also - since, hopefully, one day, they will no longer have any purpose.

What about pro-terrorism groups like the people foolishly trying to shut down Gitmo?

Not going to participate in going off into left field, turkey. That was just one example of a group that has purpose - but hopefully a temporary purpose.

 

[DangerAardvark]

I guess no one noticed that the two groups mentioned in the ad aren't actually Atheist groups? The Center For Inquiry is a secular group that promotes science and free inquiry and the Secular Humanist Society of New York are... well... Secular Humanists. But hey, why let little details like those get in the way of a good rant?

And I guess no one noticed that the ad no more endorses Atheism than it does Agnosticism or Buddhism (God-less religion). But again, why let those pesky details get in the way of a good rant against a strawman.

 

[secretanchitman]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
I'm atheist but think this is stupid as well.

same here.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

What about pro-terrorism groups like the people foolishly trying to shut down Gitmo?

Not going to participate in going off into left field, turkey. That was just one example of a group that has purpose - but hopefully a temporary purpose.

Its Cuba, not Turkey. We must defeat the Taliban and pull our troops out of Afghanistan. Mission accomplished. :thumbsup:

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
I guess no one noticed that the two groups mentioned in the ad aren't actually Atheist groups? The Center For Inquiry is a secular group that promotes science and free inquiry and the Secular Humanist Society of New York are... well... Secular Humanists. But hey, why let little details like those get in the way of a good rant?

And I guess no one noticed that the ad no more endorses Atheism than it does Agnosticism or Buddhism (God-less religion). But again, why let those pesky details get in the way of a good rant against a strawman.

What's in a name?

And the ad doesn't endorse anything because it's only one line long. The inquiry they are inviting isn't just to make you think, I'm pretty sure they want you to contact them or at least look them up and go from there.

These aren't even the most garbage ads in NYC subway, they pretty much fit in with the other random ads for cosmetic surgery, learn English, vocational education, movie posters, megachurches that want your dollars, philosophy classes, alcohol, etc.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

This is why I avoid labels altogether. I don't say I atheist or agnostic or Christian, or w/e, I just say I am nothing.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: PieIsAwesome
This is why I avoid labels altogether. I don't say I atheist or agnostic or Christian, or w/e, I just say I am nothing.

Then that's what you count as

Seriously, though, labels are convenient because they allow you to say what your core beliefs are. Obviously people that take the time to know you don't necessary need a label for you.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
I guess no one noticed that the two groups mentioned in the ad aren't actually Atheist groups? The Center For Inquiry is a secular group that promotes science and free inquiry and the Secular Humanist Society of New York are... well... Secular Humanists. But hey, why let little details like those get in the way of a good rant?

And I guess no one noticed that the ad no more endorses Atheism than it does Agnosticism or Buddhism (God-less religion). But again, why let those pesky details get in the way of a good rant against a strawman.

What's in a name?

All I see is the religious desperately hoping that everyone really believes in some kind of supernatural being to validate themselves. Just give up. Humans aren't always right and it's ok.

 

[Newfie]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
The Big Apple Coalition of Reason have started taking out pro-atheism ads on New York subways and buses recently. The goal is to "raise awareness" of people who don't believe in god. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've seen an atheist/humanist organization do.

There is nothing wrong with an atheistic community forming. In fact, I think it can do a world of good. In the least it would act as a support system for those who don't believe in a god. Hell, one of the people I have come very close to has had his life threatened because of his lack of belief. Look at Ayaan Hirsi Ali and her plight with coming out.

There is nothing wrong, in societies where irrationality reigns supreme, for athiests to get together.

If it requires non-agressive ad's to be taken out, then so be it. There is no way that "There are a million New Yorkers without God. Are you?" is aggressive, defamatory, or created with the goal of converting people.

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
We don't need to "raise awareness" for people who don't believe in ghosts, or "raise awareness" for people who don't believe in astrology, why do we need to do it for atheists? I have a fundamental problem with organized atheism, because it's just silly to have an organization of people who don't do something or don't believe in something. When was the last time you attended your "I don't believe in unicorns" meeting?

Astrology or "unicorns" are not shoved in your face every single day. Plus these people who believe in irrational beliefs like astrology or the existence of unicorns are the people who are running our countries and trying to influence our school systems (I'll tie the US and Canada together).

The same logic would apply if a group of people attack another group of people due to a lack of belief in a religion. It's stupid, but it happens everyday.

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Furthermore this only reinforces what many religious people have been saying - atheism is becoming a religion. These IDIOTS at The Big Apple Coalition of Reason are employing extremely religious tactics - they are working to try to convert people, they are using in-your-face ads and shoving their (lack of) beliefs down other people's throats. It's offensive and it's counter-productive.

Placing ads in a subway is extremely religious? Wtf?

From the article:

"John Rafferty, president of the Secular Humanist Society of New York, another member group of the coalition, said the ads are in no way an anti-religious campaign. They are looking to reach out to more people who have similar feelings, but might not be aware of an outlet to express their beliefs, he said."

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
So basically this is a big FUCK YOU to the Big Apple Coalition of Reason and any other atheists out there who are turning a lack of beliefs into a religion unto itself, making it difficult for reasonable atheists to defend our position that our mindset is not a religious one.

In a perfect world there would be no conflict between the religious and the non-religious, but this world is not even close to perfect. People are physically and emotionally attacked because of their lack of belief and I don't see how communities of athiests forming, which can work to stop such things, can be viewed as a bad thing.

Also, look up the definition of religion as I don't know what skewed version you are using.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
We don't need to "raise awareness" for people who don't believe in ghosts, or "raise awareness" for people who don't believe in astrology, why do we need to do it for atheists?

Are there people who try and run your lives and create laws based on ghosts? Are there people who blow themselves up and kill thousands in the name of astrology?

Religion is dangerous. The sooner society gets away from it, the better.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[sash1]

i like these atheist ads :thumbsup:

 

[LumbergTech]

i agree the ads are retarded ...there is no way in hell those ads will convince anyone to see life any differently...it shows a complete lack of understanding of people...

the only things these ads could do is piss people off

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
I guess no one noticed that the two groups mentioned in the ad aren't actually Atheist groups? The Center For Inquiry is a secular group that promotes science and free inquiry and the Secular Humanist Society of New York are... well... Secular Humanists. But hey, why let little details like those get in the way of a good rant?

And I guess no one noticed that the ad no more endorses Atheism than it does Agnosticism or Buddhism (God-less religion). But again, why let those pesky details get in the way of a good rant against a strawman.

What's in a name?

And the ad doesn't endorse anything because it's only one line long. The inquiry they are inviting isn't just to make you think, I'm pretty sure they want you to contact them or at least look them up and go from there.

These aren't even the most garbage ads in NYC subway, they pretty much fit in with the other random ads for cosmetic surgery, learn English, vocational education, movie posters, megachurches that want your dollars, philosophy classes, alcohol, etc.

And that's a problem... why? The main problem I have with religion isn't that it proselytizes. It's that it's wrong. What is politics if not proselytizing your political beliefs? Proselytizing is just trying to convert someone to your way of thinking, which is what you do whenever you enter into any sort of debate.

By the way, Humanist does not equal Atheist does not equal Secularist does not equal Agnostic. I know the religious would rather it be otherwise, but words do have specific meanings.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
I guess no one noticed that the two groups mentioned in the ad aren't actually Atheist groups? The Center For Inquiry is a secular group that promotes science and free inquiry and the Secular Humanist Society of New York are... well... Secular Humanists. But hey, why let little details like those get in the way of a good rant?

And I guess no one noticed that the ad no more endorses Atheism than it does Agnosticism or Buddhism (God-less religion). But again, why let those pesky details get in the way of a good rant against a strawman.

What's in a name?

And the ad doesn't endorse anything because it's only one line long. The inquiry they are inviting isn't just to make you think, I'm pretty sure they want you to contact them or at least look them up and go from there.

These aren't even the most garbage ads in NYC subway, they pretty much fit in with the other random ads for cosmetic surgery, learn English, vocational education, movie posters, megachurches that want your dollars, philosophy classes, alcohol, etc.

And that's a problem... why? The main problem I have with religion isn't that it proselytizes. It's that it's wrong. What is politics if not proselytizing your political beliefs? Proselytizing is just trying to convert someone to your way of thinking, which is what you do whenever you enter into any sort of debate.

By the way, Humanist does not equal Atheist does not equal Secularist does not equal Agnostic. I know the religious would rather it be otherwise, but words do have specific meanings.

It doesn't matter if "Humanist does not equal Atheist", as many of the people running the organization in question are atheists and the message they are promoting is atheistic or nontheistic.

Sure, they may have an agenda of community and compassion (according to their website), but they share the view that God does not exist. You can figure that out from the ad, as well.

Without digging too deeply, the "about" page shows that one of their coordinators is
"Jason Torpy
President, Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers"

http://newyorkcity.unitedcor.org/node/5

Please note that it isn't simply religious people interpreting this as an atheistic movement and getting all antsy about it. In fact, I'm pretty sure the OP isn't a religious person.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech
i agree the ads are retarded ...there is no way in hell those ads will convince anyone to see life any differently...it shows a complete lack of understanding of people...

the only things these ads could do is piss people off

So? Fuck them. The point is that there's nothing at all to be pissed off about by this innocuous ad. Society won't just magically change unless you exert some pressure from within.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Crono
I've said it before: atheism can be hijacked just as any belief or system of beliefs, even though it's one that is loosely organized and solely dependent on the lack of belief in the existence of a god or gods. If atheism becomes the dominant view of most people (I think in practice most people are atheists), the "douchery" (for lack of a better term) of the general populace will be no different than when a religion is dominant, simply because in both cases people are hypocrites and will use whatever they want to justify doing whatever they want.

Ya see... Atheism would have to be a belief system for that to happen.