Athlon 200GE - the ultimate great place-holder CPU?

[f2bnp]

I upgrade the CPU in system exactly once in my life in 2001 and came close to breaking the motherboard doing it. Yes I know things are easier now but you are actually better getting a decent APU/CPU up front and saving up for a video card later.

lol
I have no clue how you managed to come close to breaking the motherboard, but I assure you it is very easy to upgrade nowadays. Now, had you mentioned an Athlon XP CPU which had their dies exposed and easily chipped a.k.a destroyed... In fact, I don't understand your argument at all here, do you have someone else build your systems? Because otherwise, you might break something as you are building your system .

I say the same thing. I'll buy the cheap i3 and then when it gets too slow, I'll throw an i7 in there.

Never happens.

When the i3 is too slow, the whole system is out of date, even though the board will take a faster chip.

I pretty much always think about how old the rest of the system is, and decide not to bother upgrading the CPU.

"I don't do it, therefore no one does".

I see your point, but a lot of people don't have enough money to pay upfront for something they might not need or just can't afford. That's one of the reasons that products like these exist, to make sure that you still have something to hold you over and hey what do you know, it might actually be fast enough for you.
Personal story, I didn't have enough money to grab an R5 1600 last year, so I just went with an R3 1200 instead to save some money and perhaps grab the 2600 when it became available. Well, I'm still riding that R3 1200, suits me fine, but I am looking forward to Zen2 CPUs, I'll probably snatch a 6core/12thread or whatever is equal to that by the time it releases.

 

[Abwx]

I say the same thing. I'll buy the cheap i3 and then when it gets too slow, I'll throw an i7 in there.

Never happens.

When the i3 is too slow, the whole system is out of date, even though the board will take a faster chip.

I pretty much always think about how old the rest of the system is, and decide not to bother upgrading the CPU.

That s not comparable, here the slower chip does 360pts in CB R15 while a future low priced R7 1700/2700 is at 1400-1500pts, not sure that comparable uplifts were possible with previous i3s plateforms.

Other than this this CPU should be coupled with lower idle power MBs than the B350 used by Techspot if it is used as some kind of newish AM1, CPU consumption is barely 25W and 30W+ are reached only in CPU+GPU usage.

 

[ao_ika_red]

because the 2200G IGP is still pretty slow, if you are buying a better GPU, like a GTX 1050 ti you are still saving the difference and probably won't notice the difference in CPU performance, probably.

Talking about 1050ti pairing

 

[Shivansps]

I have paired G4560 with 1050TI with excellent results... hell some did pair G4560s with RX570s with good results as well.
I dont see the 200GE doing too badly honestly.

Compared to a G4560 or G5400 with a 200GE you can build a system that could actually play some games with its IGP at 720p, then you could add a RX560 or GTX1050 at any time and have good gaming experience at 1080p.
I had tested this, personally.

And this is recorded on CPU!!!! No nvenc or quicksync.

Coming from the guy who has a R7 1700 and a RX580, a G4560/GTX1050 does just fine on 1080p. But you are going to have issues with large BF1 mp maps yeah, but considering what it is thats perfectly fine.

This is a 2200G

Its probably about 10% faster today.

 

[SPBHM]

Talking about 1050ti pairing

the first 2 games were bad, AC Origins being one was no surprise, the rest was OK for this sort of graphics card and low cost hardware overall.

edit: bad is the wrong word for that, ACO was still over 30FPS, which is more than a Xbox One X.
it's limited, but OK for the money and a lot nicer than it would be with just an IGP.

 

[whm1974]

lol
I have no clue how you managed to come close to breaking the motherboard, but I assure you it is very easy to upgrade nowadays. Now, had you mentioned an Athlon XP CPU which had their dies exposed and easily chipped a.k.a destroyed... In fact, I don't understand your argument at all here, do you have someone else build your systems? Because otherwise, you might break something as you are building your system .

At the time the way the HSF was mounted on motherboards was on the tabs on the sockets and can be very easy o break off if you were not careful trying to take off the HSF to swap CPUs. On top off that the motherboard was flexing as well.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I agree, the G4560 with a GTX 1050 or 1050 ti, is pretty potent, but the R3 1200 (especially, when OCed to 3.8Ghz, a really trivial OC on stock cooler for those CPUs), is a (budget) power-house. (Almost equal to an i5-7500 or 7600 non-K.)

I haven't specifically tested the difference between a 2200G and an R3 1200, when both are OCed to 3.8, and with a dGPU.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I will say this, that if the 200GE were unlocked, and overclockable in a B350 or better mobo, then it would become "the people's chip" (cheap and usable, like a VW, NOT like "The People's Republic (of China)".) It would be an internet sensation, talked about in ever tech YouTube channel. It would have memes created about it. It would be like the second coming of the G4560, the unlocked version that we never had (AMD style!).

I really hope that AMD will re-consider. I know why they locked it, it's mostly designed for cheap, low-power, budget OEM boxes, and business boxes, and for that, great job AMD. Even better that they even bothered to make it a retail SKU. But, can I ask a favor, AMD? Make a "Black Edition" Athlon model, or bring back the Phenom brand name to complete the trilogy, and make those the "Black Edition". Maybe there's some Phenom II BE users just itching to upgrade out there? I don't mind if you charge a little more ($69 or $74 or so), just to make up for cannibalizing some of the higher-clocked locked SKUs that you might also be offering under the Athlon brand (Zen designs).

I know that not everything needs four real cores (although, they sure are handy), and my 2200G @ 3.80Ghz is quite snappy. I can only imagine, that a 2C/4T Zen-architecture chip, clocked or overclocked to 3.80Ghz, would really make waves, and at $69-79, would render Intel's lower-end chip spectrum completely obsolete.

C'mon AMD, why not kick Intel a little while their down (chip shortages).

 

[prtskg]

I doubt AMD has enough bad dies to make it uber attractive. I think it already is very good for it's price. Also there are 2 more Athlons to launch.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I doubt AMD has enough bad dies to make it uber attractive.

There's that, too. These apparently were not meant to be a high-volume chip. I guess AMD wants to sell more 2200G and 2400G CPUs then.

 

[ao_ika_red]

There's a chance, by making special "Athlon anniversary" sku which might be called 240GX. Just like Intel did with G3258

 

[amd6502]

That s not comparable, here the slower chip does 360pts in CB R15 while a future low priced R7 1700/2700 is at 1400-1500pts, not sure that comparable uplifts were possible with previous i3s plateforms.

Other than this this CPU should be coupled with lower idle power MBs than the B350 used by Techspot if it is used as some kind of newish AM1, CPU consumption is barely 25W and 30W+ are reached only in CPU+GPU usage.

I really agree with this. They could benefit themselves and customers if they offered an affordable budget oriented AM1 successor (fm4?), like sub-60W mini ITX boards to take Athlons like this.

AMD dosent have enoght volume to make just speed bumps on the 220 and 240GE. To me the 220GE is a 2/4 with bigger Vega, probably Vega 6.
[....]
But to target the remaining GT2 Pentiums at 70-90 they need to make Vega bigger, there is no other way and if they dont want to lagg too far behind in CPU 240GE would have to be 4/4.

I agree they don't have much volume. So it's possible that availability might be OEM only for most of these Athlons.

I agree that making the iGPU bigger is likely in at least one of those future Athlons. I think it's very likely they will add a boost frequency on the 220ge. So a similar base, but with boosts; and boost plus 6 to 8 CU on the 240ge.

I really don't think they'll go for 4c/4t because this would make it quite complex to offer at 35W. Four cores are going to consume more power. How much wattage does a 2200g/ge pull at 3.4ghz? (Remember that these lower binnings need to be overvolted and you also gotta power the Vegas at mobile frequencies.)

 

[VirtualLarry]

There's a chance, by making special "Athlon anniversary" sku which might be called 240GX. Just like Intel did with G3258

That's a neat idea. My idea was a "Black Edition" chip, since AMD already has used that moniker. Though I don't know if they've ever used it in conjunction with the Athlon brand, maybe only the Phenom (II) brand.

 

[amd6502]

That's a neat idea. My idea was a "Black Edition" chip, since AMD already has used that moniker. Though I don't know if they've ever used it in conjunction with the Athlon brand, maybe only the Phenom (II) brand.

Well if it's an Athlon anniversary I say don't go for the Phenom brand (which should high performing ~ Ryzen or better). I think such a variant is unlikely until there is a native dual core zen APU (if that ever happens).

 

[cbn]

There's that, too. These apparently were not meant to be a high-volume chip. I guess AMD wants to sell more 2200G and 2400G CPUs then.

You nailed it IMO.

....because AMD has R3 2200G and R5 2400G there is a conflict with having an overclockable 2C/4T....and especially a 2C/4T with the full size iGPU.

 

[Shivansps]

I really agree with this. They could benefit themselves and customers if they offered an affordable budget oriented AM1 successor (fm4?), like sub-60W mini ITX boards to take Athlons like this.



I agree they don't have much volume. So it's possible that availability might be OEM only for most of these Athlons.

I agree that making the iGPU bigger is likely in at least one of those future Athlons. I think it's very likely they will add a boost frequency on the 220ge. So a similar base, but with boosts; and boost plus 6 to 8 CU on the 240ge.

I really don't think they'll go for 4c/4t because this would make it quite complex to offer at 35W. Four cores are going to consume more power. How much wattage does a 2200g/ge pull at 3.4ghz? (Remember that these lower binnings need to be overvolted and you also gotta power the Vegas at mobile frequencies.)

They already have 4C in mobile and embedded at less than 35W, like the V1605b or the 2300U. They could make a 2.9-3.0Ghz 4C Athlon at 35W.

Vega 8 its impossible at sub $100, that would eat A LOT of 2200G market, but a Vega 6 with a 2,9-3.0Ghz 4C 240GE may be possible.

 

[ao_ika_red]

That's a neat idea. My idea was a "Black Edition" chip, since AMD already has used that moniker. Though I don't know if they've ever used it in conjunction with the Athlon brand, maybe only the Phenom (II) brand.

 

[moinmoin]

You may remember me raving about Banded Kestrel in the past:

The Athlon 200GE series is just that, but instead being a very small die it's a very cut down Raven Ridge die instead. In that regard it's fully understandable that they are locked and in low quantity. After all this product is seriously undercutting the other products based on the same die, which again are already selling at a much lower price than the CPU-only products using a die pretty much at the same die size. This may well be the Zen based product with the by far worst margin for AMD. A dedicated tiny die at a far higher quantity may fare better.

 

[SPBHM]

there was the 5000+ Black Edition (Brisbane G2, the newest K8), and the 6400+ (still 90nm, the fastest K8) I think,
but they were rare...
just like the Pentium Dual Core e6500K
and kind of useless since bus clock OC was very easy for K8 and lga 775.

which brings me to AM4, I know it's possible to do some sort of ref clock OC, but is it reserved for unlocked CPUs? can you do it on A320?

 

[Asterox]

You may remember me raving about Banded Kestrel in the past:

The Athlon 200GE series is just that, but instead being a very small die it's a very cut down Raven Ridge die instead. In that regard it's fully understandable that they are locked and in low quantity. After all this product is seriously undercutting the other products based on the same die, which again are already selling at a much lower price than the CPU-only products using a die pretty much at the same die size. This may well be the Zen based product with the by far worst margin for AMD. A dedicated tiny die at a far higher quantity may fare better.

Special tiny die is not cost effective for AMD, or precisely not worth the effort.

Athlon GE series is a very usable leftover/cutdown APU, or again more the enough for low end CPU segment.

 

[moinmoin]

Special tiny die is not cost effective for AMD, or precisely not worth the effort.

Athlon GE series is a very usable leftover/cutdown APU, or again more the enough for low end CPU segment.

Sure all that the case right now. Doesn't change anything about the fact that Athlon 200GE is by far their lowest margin Zen based product, so of course AMD is not interested in it taking away a significant cut of their higher margin products. Thus we get low quantity and locked chips.

 

[SPBHM]

wouldn't a native 2 core die with a small IGP be viable for the 200GE but also low clocked enough to compete with the Atom based CPUs for some applications? (cheap laptops and so on) I think it could be a good thing.

 

[whm1974]

wouldn't a native 2 core die with a small IGP be viable for the 200GE but also low clocked enough to compete with the Atom based CPUs for some applications? (cheap laptops and so on) I think it could be a good thing.

But does AMD have the resources to design such a APU and more importantly, do the fab partners have room for another product from AMD?

 

[ao_ika_red]

You may remember me raving about Banded Kestrel in the past:

The Athlon 200GE series is just that, but instead being a very small die it's a very cut down Raven Ridge die instead. In that regard it's fully understandable that they are locked and in low quantity. After all this product is seriously undercutting the other products based on the same die, which again are already selling at a much lower price than the CPU-only products using a die pretty much at the same die size. This may well be the Zen based product with the by far worst margin for AMD. A dedicated tiny die at a far higher quantity may fare better.

I remember that I praised BK as Carrizo-L successor, but they used leftover chip instead.

which brings me to AM4, I know it's possible to do some sort of ref clock OC, but is it reserved for unlocked CPUs? can you do it on A320?

AFAIK, BCLK OC is only available on B350/450 and X370/470 boards.

 

[moinmoin]

But does AMD have the resources to design such a APU and more importantly, do the fab partners have room for another product from AMD?

I don't think fab partners would lack room for this. As I see it it's all about financial priorities. Low margin chips, and as such APUs just don't seem to be AMD's focus right now. DIY desktop was used to introduce Zen, the server market is the clear focus, and APUs are used as the closure for every given gen (as well as a testbed for some features of the next gen).