Athlon 5350 mini video Review

[AJSB]

Another interesting perspective....

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/68473-amd-athlon-5350-28nm-kabini/?page=8

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/68473-amd-athlon-5350-28nm-kabini/?page=2

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/68473-amd-athlon-5350-28nm-kabini/?page=7



....and no matter those are for a GTX750Ti and not for the non-Ti GTX750 , that just confirms all my theories

Let's see...


3D Mark Firestrike
5350 : 402
7850K: 1490
5350+750ti: 3359

Nice, when paired with a GTX750Ti , the 5350 obliterates a 10-7850K in 3DMark Firestrike !!!

...let's see some gaming performance with this weird combo...


Bioshock Infinite
7850K: 46.5
5350+750ti: 32.5


Grid2
7850K: 56.5
5350+750ti: 42


At 1st glance it seems that even paired with a GTX750Ti, the 5350 is no match for a standalone A10-7850K....but that is far from the truth !!!


If we see the testing conditions , we will discover that :

1. They tested the iGPU capacities of the A10-7850K with a resolution of 1280x720 with BI set to Medium Quality and Grid2 set to High Quality.

2. They tested the 5350 + GTX750Ti with a resolution of 1920x1024 with BI set to Ultra Quality+DOF and Grid2 set to Maximum Quality.


If they tested with same graphical settings , the 5350 + GTX750Ti would have swiped the floor with the A10-7850K !!!

Noticed that the 7850K was in no way handicapped in RAM because it was using 2133MHz (like it should) and 16GB vs only 4GB to the 5350 !


As for costs, and these are Euro prices, let's do some calculations....

5350 base parts
Mobo ASRock or ASUS in any case in mITX format, i can get for 28 €, 4GB RAM at 1600MHz for 31€, 5350 for 52€, ZOTAC GTX750 1GB for 99€ or a ZOTAC GTX750Ti 2GB for 125€....total from 200€ to 226€ (depends of using GTX750 or GTX750Ti)

7850K base parts
Mobo ASRock mITX with 78x chipset i can get for 68€ , 8GB RAM at 2133MHz for 68 € (the 7850K will need 8GB because it has to use part of it for iGPU and subtracting 1 to 2 GB from 4GB would be too crippling (like using anything less than 2133MHz) not to mention that i can't find 2x4GB kits at that speed and using only one stick would crippled even further the 7850K) , 7850K for 152€...total 288€

As for power drain, the system with a 5350+GTX750(Ti) combo should spend less than a system with standalone 7850K....

Now you might say "but i want a extremely small case", well if you are talking about cases like 56x220x200mm or even 65x220x210mm i pretty much doubt that you could run a 7850K at full speed and keep it cool anyway

Some nice cases for this kinda of weird combo could be the Silverstone SGO5 or the CoolerMaster Elite 110 (i prefer the SGO5....smaller and still can have a regular Slim ODD (with tray)).

PS: and the I7-4770K ? That CPU alone costs more than 5350+GTX750Ti+4GB DIMM+MoBo+500GB HDD :biggrin:

 

[Abwx]

Another interesting perspective....

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/68473-amd-athlon-5350-28nm-kabini/?page=8

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/68473-amd-athlon-5350-28nm-kabini/?page=2

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/68473-amd-athlon-5350-28nm-kabini/?page=7

Sure that Hexus know how measuring perf/watt in a fair comparison, that s simple, take a Kabini plateform , stick it to a 750W PSU , take two low power intel CPUs wich are granted 40-50W bricks and then do a graph with the doctored results.

Although their 750W PSU is fairly efficient given its inadequacy this still show that there s site who are not very competent if they think that such a set up is a typical one.

 

[Enigmoid]

Another interesting perspective....

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/68473-amd-athlon-5350-28nm-kabini/?page=8

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/68473-amd-athlon-5350-28nm-kabini/?page=2

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/68473-amd-athlon-5350-28nm-kabini/?page=7



....and no matter those are for a GTX750Ti and not for the non-Ti GTX750 , that just confirms all my theories

Let's see...


3D Mark Firestrike
5350 : 402
7850K: 1490
5350+750ti: 3359

Nice, when paired with a GTX750Ti , the 5350 obliterates a 10-7850K in 3DMark Firestrike !!!

...let's see some gaming performance with this weird combo...


Bioshock Infinite
7850K: 46.5
5350+750ti: 32.5


Grid2
7850K: 56.5
5350+750ti: 42


At 1st glance it seems that even paired with a GTX750Ti, the 5350 is no match for a standalone A10-7850K....but that is far from the truth !!!


If we see the testing conditions , we will discover that :

1. They tested the iGPU capacities of the A10-7850K with a resolution of 1280x720 with BI set to Medium Quality and Grid2 set to High Quality.

2. They tested the 5350 + GTX750Ti with a resolution of 1920x1024 with BI set to Ultra Quality+DOF and Grid2 set to Maximum Quality.


If they tested with same graphical settings , the 5350 + GTX750Ti would have swiped the floor with the A10-7850K !!!

Noticed that the 7850K was in no way handicapped in RAM because it was using 2133MHz (like it should) and 16GB vs only 4GB to the 5350 !


As for costs, and these are Euro prices, let's do some calculations....

5350 base parts
Mobo ASRock or ASUS in any case in mITX format, i can get for 28 €, 4GB RAM at 1600MHz for 31€, 5350 for 52€, ZOTAC GTX750 1GB for 99€ or a ZOTAC GTX750Ti 2GB for 125€....total from 200€ to 226€ (depends of using GTX750 or GTX750Ti)

7850K base parts
Mobo ASRock mITX with 78x chipset i can get for 68€ , 8GB RAM at 2133MHz for 68 € (the 7850K will need 8GB because it has to use part of it for iGPU and subtracting 1 to 2 GB from 4GB would be too crippling (like using anything less than 2133MHz) not to mention that i can't find 2x4GB kits at that speed and using only one stick would crippled even further the 7850K) , 7850K for 152€...total 288€

As for power drain, the system with a 5350+GTX750(Ti) combo should spend less than a system with standalone 7850K....

Now you might say "but i want a extremely small case", well if you are talking about cases like 56x220x200mm or even 65x220x210mm i pretty much doubt that you could run a 7850K at full speed and keep it cool anyway

Some nice cases for this kinda of weird combo could be the Silverstone SGO5 or the CoolerMaster Elite 110 (i prefer the SGO5....smaller and still can have a regular Slim ODD (with tray)).

PS: and the I7-4770K ? That CPU alone costs more than 5350+GTX750Ti+4GB DIMM+MoBo+500GB HDD :biggrin:

Sure. But a 5350 is a pretty low end CPU. You may (definitely will for some games) be held back by the CPU. For example I expect Hitman to be unplayable.

It looks like even bioshock is held back by the CPU

5350 -33 fps
4770k - 43 fps

Very unbalanced combo.

 

[Abwx]

It looks like even bioshock is held back by the CPU

5350 -33 fps
4770k - 43 fps

Very unbalanced combo.

Undoubtly but one can only be amazed that the 4770K is only 30% better
in this scenario, actualy they should have rather used a 290 along with mantle.

 

[SPBHM]

Another interesting perspective....

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/68473-amd-athlon-5350-28nm-kabini/?page=8

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/68473-amd-athlon-5350-28nm-kabini/?page=2

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/68473-amd-athlon-5350-28nm-kabini/?page=7

they compared Kabini to a 4670K, but they can't a test a $50 Celeron G1820...

are you suggesting 5350 is a good option for gaming with discrete graphics!?
for that you also need to test other CPUs from the same price range
http://pclab.pl/art57195-7.html
http://pclab.pl/art57195-8.html

Undoubtly but one can only be amazed that the 4770K is only 30% better
in this scenario, actualy they should have rather used a 290 along with mantle.

PClab tested with Mantle

http://pclab.pl/art57195-8.html

but it's just a 250 with low settings,

 

[Enigmoid]

Undoubtly but one can only be amazed that the 4770K is only 30% better
in this scenario, actualy they should have rather used a 290 along with mantle.

Which is completely irrelevant when using a 750TI on max settings and you are GPU limited.

(Cause really the logic filter should have realized that a 4770 does not limit bio shock infinite to 43 fps).

The pclab + Mantle BF4 tests should you are barely keeping 30 fps.

Many games you will be borderline playable due to CPU limitations.

 

[AJSB]

Sure that Hexus know how measuring perf/watt in a fair comparison, that s simple, take a Kabini plateform , stick it to a 750W PSU , take two low power intel CPUs wich are granted 40-50W bricks and then do a graph with the doctored results.

Although their 750W PSU is fairly efficient given its inadequacy this still show that there s site who are not very competent if they think that such a set up is a typical one.

I agree with you on that....i think that these "test labs" are so used to test powerful rigs that the idea of using anything else more adequate never occurs to their minds...

 

[AJSB]

are you suggesting 5350 is a good option for gaming with discrete graphics!?


PClab tested with Mantle

With games that are CPU-Bound of course not...but with games that are GPU-Bound, it just might work out really well.

...and we might be in the start of an era where games are optmized for *lower* specc'ed CPUs...TITANFALL is an example where the devs admitted that they optimized the game for the lowest possible CPU specs so they could reach the maximum possible audience...they didn't even compressed the audio...

As for Mantle, we all know that the lower the performance of the CPU/APU , the greater the performance boost...but that is not showing up with Kabini.

IMHO, current Catalyst driver is NOT optimized AT ALL to work with Kabini in a Mantle scenario , ando we get those results....one of the several reasons to me be interested in the GTX750(Ti) performance and not in a video card from AMD.

 

[AJSB]

PS: Soon there will be more tests of the 5350 , this time under LINUX, that will include tests with dGPU and with 5350 OC'ed....yeap you can OC it at least up to 2206MHz with the right MoBo

 

[TeknoBug]

Sure. But a 5350 is a pretty low end CPU. You may (definitely will for some games) be held back by the CPU. For example I expect Hitman to be unplayable.

It looks like even bioshock is held back by the CPU

5350 -33 fps
4770k - 43 fps

Very unbalanced combo.

43fps with a 4770K... yeah the 750Ti is the bottleneck here.

 

[DrMrLordX]

PS: Soon there will be more tests of the 5350 , this time under LINUX, that will include tests with dGPU and with 5350 OC'ed....yeap you can OC it at least up to 2206MHz with the right MoBo

Interesting. Which motherboard is that? Is this BCLK/HTT overclocking? Does Kabini have the same problem with BCLK overclocking as, say, Kaveri?

 

[AJSB]

Interesting. Which motherboard is that? Is this BCLK/HTT overclocking? Does Kabini have the same problem with BCLK overclocking as, say, Kaveri?

Both ASUS AM1 Mobos allow OC (the guy that did it used the mATX MoBo but according to manuals, the mITX can also do it)....you change base APU clock from 100MHz to 105Mhz (above that it gets unstable) and then you change APU multiplier from 20.5 to 21, BIOS doesn't accept higher values for Multiplier, at least in current versions of BIOS...with these values you reach 2206 Mhz for CPU...

GPU and RAM were at same time OC thanks to change in base APU clock....RAM was running at 1680MHz...

The guy that did it was using 1600MHz RAM and not 1866MHz...if he had it, i believe that he could have pushed base APU clock to 106 or 107MHz...

I believe that reason for unstable behavior at 106 was that RAM was to stressed in its frequency....

 

[DrMrLordX]

Hmm. If so, that could be good news. Kaveri tops out at around 105 APU clock/BCLK due to a fiendish incarnation of the AHCI bug.

 

[SPBHM]

With games that are CPU-Bound of course not...but with games that are GPU-Bound, it just might work out really well.

...and we might be in the start of an era where games are optmized for *lower* specc'ed CPUs...TITANFALL is an example where the devs admitted that they optimized the game for the lowest possible CPU specs so they could reach the maximum possible audience...they didn't even compressed the audio...

As for Mantle, we all know that the lower the performance of the CPU/APU , the greater the performance boost...but that is not showing up with Kabini.

IMHO, current Catalyst driver is NOT optimized AT ALL to work with Kabini in a Mantle scenario , ando we get those results....one of the several reasons to me be interested in the GTX750(Ti) performance and not in a video card from AMD.

I don't buy this "Mantle is not optimized for Kabini yet" thing, it just is what it is... look also at the D3D games tested... nope, Kabini is not a valid option for gaming with discrete graphics, as long as things like the G1820 exists.

Witcher 2 is considered extremely GPU bound for slow GPUs like the 250, even at low settings it should still be a challenge, and...

http://pclab.pl/zdjecia/artykuly/radek/2014/am1/wykresy/wiedzmin.png
when I compared this game back with a C2D and C2Q it looked to me like it definitely liked quad core

Titanfall is a bad example, it's a game made using Source Engine to start with,
there is very little going on compared to a more complex game for the CPU...
I don't think this is a trend at all,

if you need to handpick games to show kabini as a valid PC gaming CPU, something is wrong, it needs to perform well in all sorts of games to be considered something worth buying, when the competing CPU is much stronger for gaming...

Kabini is fine for a cheap media PC, file server or very basic PC, but gaming with discrete graphics, is totally outside of what is expected to be doing even by AMD, just look at the number of PCIE lanes for example
not ideal at all.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Kabini is fine for a cheap media PC, file server or very basic PC, but gaming with discrete graphics, is totally outside of what is expected to be doing even by AMD, just look at the number of PCIE lanes for example
not ideal at all.

I would basically agree with this. Unless AM1 comes out with faster parts (either improves IPC by 25%, or increases frequency by something similar or more), I don't see how they can compete with the "big cores" as far as gaming goes. Especially the PCI-E limitation.

Kabini and AM1 are what they are. They make an ideal entry-level PC platform, for a good majority of desktop customers, however few that are left in this world.

But as a basis for an enthusiast gaming rig? Nope. I would much prefer a Q6600 @ 3.6 on an X48 mobo for gaming, than a little Kabini AM1 mini-ITX board.

But for a HTPC? Kabini all the way.

And yes, I like Kabini, but that two SATA port limitation on most boards is a real killer, for those of us that like SSD + HDD solutions, along with a Blu-Ray or DVD-RW drive. Thank goodness ASRock added another SATA controller chip for two more ports.

 

[piesquared]

I would basically agree with this. Unless AM1 comes out with faster parts (either improves IPC by 25%, or increases frequency by something similar or more), I don't see how they can compete with the "big cores" as far as gaming goes. Especially the PCI-E limitation.

Kabini and AM1 are what they are. They make an ideal entry-level PC platform, for a good majority of desktop customers, however few that are left in this world.

But as a basis for an enthusiast gaming rig? Nope. I would much prefer a Q6600 @ 3.6 on an X48 mobo for gaming, than a little Kabini AM1 mini-ITX board.

But for a HTPC? Kabini all the way.

And yes, I like Kabini, but that two SATA port limitation on most boards is a real killer, for those of us that like SSD + HDD solutions, along with a Blu-Ray or DVD-RW drive. Thank goodness ASRock added another SATA controller chip for two more ports.

Ah, but according to the data, there is about 38% of a $300+ billion market.

It's not marketed as a high powered gaming machine, nor is it but it can game better than anything in it's class. Kabini has higher performance across the board than Baytrail by a big margin in many cases. Plus AM1 will no doubt be upgradable to Beema with another big boost in performance and perf/watt. AM1 makes all kinds of sense for the target market.

 

[Abwx]

And yes, I like Kabini, but that two SATA port limitation on most boards is a real killer, for those of us that like SSD + HDD solutions, along with a Blu-Ray or DVD-RW drive. Thank goodness ASRock added another SATA controller chip for two more ports.

You can use a port for the OS while connecting several devices on the remaining port.

Edit : two more 5350 reviews.

http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-athlon-5350-apu-am1-platform-review_139224

http://www.kitguru.net/components/c...s1b-apu-review-w-sapphire-r7-240-low-profile/

Kitguru use the same Bequiet straight 400 PSU as eteknix.com and golem.de,
a quite efficient ATX while Legitreviews seems to use a pico psu , not sure.

 

[VirtualLarry]

You can use a port for the OS while connecting several devices on the remaining port.

Are you suggesting to connect a SSD to port 0, and then hot-swap between a HDD and DVD drive on port 1? That's a bit unwieldy, don't you think?

Or are you suggesting that the hardware and the BIOS / UEFI support port-multipliers on AM1? That would be neat if true, a mobo maker could implement two PM chips onboard, and have 8 SATA ports then.

 

[Abwx]

Are you suggesting to connect a SSD to port 0, and then hot-swap between a HDD and DVD drive on port 1? That's a bit unwieldy, don't you think?

Or are you suggesting that the hardware and the BIOS / UEFI support port-multipliers on AM1? That would be neat if true, a mobo maker could implement two PM chips onboard, and have 8 SATA ports then.

AMD s Sata controlers can manage several devices on a single port so no need to hot swap, you can connect several items in a single port , let say port 1 and save port 0 for a SSD with the OS , of course if you connect two fast devices to port 1 they ll share the bandwith if used simultaneously but Kabini has a 2 x 6gbit/s controler so you could even use two devices with port 0 and still retain 3gbit/s per device , as much as the two SATA port of a Bay Trail D wich are 3gbit/s each.

 

[mrmt]

It's not marketed as a high powered gaming machine, nor is it but it can game better than anything in it's class. Kabini has higher performance across the board than Baytrail by a big margin in many cases. Plus AM1 will no doubt be upgradable to Beema with another big boost in performance and perf/watt. AM1 makes all kinds of sense for the target market.

Since you are talking about market size, you should check the amount of users that upgrade their processors. Hint: It's not something you would bother.

And don't forget that AM1 competition isn't Bay Trail, but mostly the army of Core rejects that they can sell for peanuts in the form of Pentiums/Celerons. As much as AM1 is a step in the right direction (good die size, balanced performance), it's not a compeling platform. Spending a bit more can give you a lot more of performance in the form of FM2 or Intel, thinking about upgradeability pushes you towards Intel and if you go SFF Bay Trail becomes a lot more attractive.

To sum up, AM1 is a day late, a dollar short. We can only wonder if AMD had launched a product like this one or two years ago.

 

[Erenhardt]

Both ASUS AM1 Mobos allow OC (the guy that did it used the mATX MoBo but according to manuals, the mITX can also do it)....you change base APU clock from 100MHz to 105Mhz (above that it gets unstable) and then you change APU multiplier from 20.5 to 21, BIOS doesn't accept higher values for Multiplier, at least in current versions of BIOS...with these values you reach 2206 Mhz for CPU...

GPU and RAM were at same time OC thanks to change in base APU clock....RAM was running at 1680MHz...

The guy that did it was using 1600MHz RAM and not 1866MHz...if he had it, i believe that he could have pushed base APU clock to 106 or 107MHz...

I believe that reason for unstable behavior at 106 was that RAM was to stressed in its frequency....

I had the same with a10-7850k and figured it out. I could push FSB to around 105 MHz only. Anything higher resulted in crash. I figured out that disabling all power saving/downclocking features fixed that. I believe Cool n Quiet and C6 power state did that.

CPU was downclocking by decreasing multiplier to 17x and voltage to around 1volt. But when base clock was increased, it wasn't 17x100=1700MHz CPU clock, but 17*105=1785MHz. Not much, but with such a low voltage it was asking for problems.

After turning those features off I managed to set base clock to 133MHz and lower multiplier to 33x. RAM, IGPU and HT clocks need to be adjusted accordingly.

To keep cool and quiet on you would need to define new low power states with increased voltages that guarantee stability @ increased clocks.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Wow, really? All you had to do was disable all the power-saving features? Which motherboard?

 

[Erenhardt]

Asrock FM2A88X Extreme 4+

 

[piesquared]

Since you are talking about market size, you should check the amount of users that upgrade their processors. Hint: It's not something you would bother.

And don't forget that AM1 competition isn't Bay Trail, but mostly the army of Core rejects that they can sell for peanuts in the form of Pentiums/Celerons. As much as AM1 is a step in the right direction (good die size, balanced performance), it's not a compeling platform. Spending a bit more can give you a lot more of performance in the form of FM2 or Intel, thinking about upgradeability pushes you towards Intel and if you go SFF Bay Trail becomes a lot more attractive.

To sum up, AM1 is a day late, a dollar short. We can only wonder if AMD had launched a product like this one or two years ago.

lol @ the moving goal posts.

AM1 gives AMD entry into a huge market, around $100 billion annualy. And the fact that it is upgradable is one of many reasons that make AM1 very attractive to that market. Why? Because the upgrade chips are in the $50 range, and Beema appears to be well worth it. You can spend a bit more on anything to get a bit more performance, but as the market breakdown shows, it doesn't matter one iota. 38% of the market obviously don't want to spend more.

And don't forget, AM1's competition IS Baytrail and gives it a convincing beating. Atom has always been a failure, especially for consumers. Athlon and Sempron destroy Atom as well as Pentium/Celeron while costing less. And, Ahtlon is a far stronger brand name than Pentium. Those things have failure written all over them. You should be concerned, I bet intel is. They're 'contra revenue' won't do them any good in this market, and Taiwan's motherboard makers are fully backing AM1. That alone trumps your conjecture.

 

[Abwx]

An interesting review from computerbase.de using a high efficency75W pico PSU with both Kabini and BT plateforms, a few power comsumption numbers :

Athlon 5350 + ITX-Mainboard

Iddle : 8W
Videoplay : 11W
Video conversion : 21W
Gaming : 20.5W

Zbox nano AQ01 Plus (A4-5000)

Iddle : 8W
Videoplay : 10W
Video conversion : 15W
Gaming : 19W

Celeron J1900 + ITX-Mainboard

Iddle : 12W
Videoplay : 13W
Video conversion : 20.5W
Gaming : 19.5W

Celeron J1800 + ITX-Mainboard

Iddle : 9W
Videoplay : 10W
Video conversion : 16.5W
Gaming : 15.5W

http://www.computerbase.de/2014-04/...s1b-test/3/#diagramm-dbpoweramp-16-wav-zu-mp3