Athlon 64 3000+ vs 3400+

[Ariste]

Hey everyone. I have a question about CPU overclocking.

Since the Athlon 64 3000+, 3200+, and 3400+ are all based on the same core (assuming you buy the same type of each, I'm going with Newcastle, CG Revision), will a 3000+ be able to overclock just as far as a 3400+? Or will the 3400+, since it starts at 2.4GHz as opposed to the 3000+'s 2.0GHz, be able to overclock that much farther (400MHz)?

I'm asking this because I was originally going to go with the 3000+, since it was much cheaper than the 3400+. But since the price drops, the 3400+ 512KB L2 Cache Newcastle CG Revision CPU can be found for only 88 bucks more than the 3000+ with the same specs. If the 3400+ can overclock farther, than I think it's worth the extra 90 bucks for the 400MHz "head start"

Thanks for your help,

 

[Dman877]

Haven't seen many 3000's that made it much higher then 2.4 on air so I'd guess the 3400+ would overclock better.

 

[Mik3y]

typically, the higher the cpu is clocked at stock speeds, it should be able to overclock farther.

 

[Ariste]

Thanks for the info. I'll be going with the 3400+ then

 

[Shimmishim]

on air i think you'll go farther with the 3400+ but once you extreme cool it... they all hit around the same 2.8 to 2.9 mark

 

[lookouthere]

so the A64 is different from P4
P4 will overclock about the same, just their FSB is different
so A64 will overclock better when it has higher stock speed?

 

[Vette73]

Well don;t buy any A64's until Monday. Most places, newegg.com, have already lowered their prices but monday is the day that makes it offical, so maybe a extra buck or two then.

 

[Shimmishim]

Originally posted by: lookouthere
so the A64 is different from P4
P4 will overclock about the same, just their FSB is different
so A64 will overclock better when it has higher stock speed?

i think in principle that's true about most processors not just the a64's...

a lot of times higher stock speeds = higher clockspeeds overclocked...

a 2.4C let's say maxes out at 3600 mhz while a 3.6 would max out higher than 3600 mhz, don't you think?

from what i gather a processor running a higher stock speed will get to a higher clockspeed overclocked...

but that's just my opinion from my experience with a few 2.4C's, 3.0C's, a bunch of 1700+,2100+,2500+,2600+ tbreds/bartons, and a few A64s 3000+ and 3200+'s....

but a lot of times closely rated cpu's should overclock relatively the same... i.e. a 3000+ and 3200+ at least from experience they have

 

[Zebo]

There all the same processors within the same stepping and iteration. Should make zero difference. And I guess I've been lucky as the bottom chips I buy always make it to their overpriced brothers.

Recent EX:
1.2 thunderbird to 1.4 at the time
BArton 2500 to past 3200 at the time
P4 2.6 to past 3.2 at the time
Barton moblie(s) welll..we all know the deal here, 3800pluses

But as Shimmy says it may NOT when looking at the lowest rated compared to highest as his P4 example. Thing is, is there a 3.6 northwood yet? This would seem to indicate 3.6-3.8 is about the air max reguardless of what the chip is labeled as. And 2.4, 2.6, 2.8's, 3.0's have all gotten there with luck and good cooling.

Who knows really.

Whats neat is that a 2.0 overclcoked to 2.5 is faster than a 2.4 overclcoked to 2.5 w/ any chip design because of high bus speeds of the lower rated chip. So I try and take the chance on the lowest rated chip and recommed the same.

Get the 2800 or 3000, not only is the stock speeds price/performance ratio signifigantly better. Overclcoked, it becomes an astronomical value.

 

[Ariste]

So I wouldn't need to, say, up the vcore sooner (at a lower MHz) with a 3000+ than with a 3400+? Also, wouldn't it be harder to OC the 3000+ solely because of the issues with upping the FSB and keeping the RAM stable? Then again, I guess if that's the only issue, I could find some quality RAM and overclock the hell out of the 3000+

Thanks for your help,

 

[Ackmed]

My 3400+ maxes out at 2.6gig. But thats on water, and its a CO stepping. :/ Im not sure if its a BIOS related issue with my MSI K8N or not.

 

[Ariste]

Well my goal would be to get 2.5GHz out of a 3000+, if that's what I got. The RAM I have listed can handle 250 fsb (I think... not exactly sure how to tell but I'm pretty sure that PC-4000 can do it) at almost stock voltage, so 250 fsb with a 10 multiplier would be great. Not sure if I could get that on air though.

Anyone have a definitive word as to whether the 3400+ will overclock farther than the 3000+? Even if they all top out at a certain number, I probably won't have to worry about that since I'm going with air cooling. So would a 3400+ be easier to overclock to, say, 2.6 GHz than a 3000+? Common sense tells me it would be easier, but common sense isn't always right

Thanks for your help,

 

[mato7742]

zebo, what mobo would you recommend buying with the processor?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Ariste
So I wouldn't need to, say, up the vcore sooner (at a lower MHz) with a 3000+ than with a 3400+? Also, wouldn't it be harder to OC the 3000+ solely because of the issues with upping the FSB and keeping the RAM stable? Then again, I guess if that's the only issue, I could find some quality RAM and overclock the hell out of the 3000+

Thanks for your help,

Maybe, but usually not, it's a risk though. Thugs 2.8C get 3.5C on stock Vcore. My Bartons all do 2.2 (3200) on stock or less than stock Vcore/ Again the chips are all the same usually but for mulitpiler. Most every NC I've seen does 2.3-2.4 on stock Vcore. With newcastles/A64's increased voltage helps very little anyway/ 1.7 is about the max I'd put though.

Ram speed is a fuction of memory divider x HTT...in a weird way.

So say you got the 3000. To Overclock you'd set HTT to say 250 and use default multiplier = 2500 mhz chip now

Then you'd set mem setting to 166 (which means 6:5 or 166/normal 200) = 250 x 5/6 = Memory is running @ 208

Memory setting is the same as memory divider in other non-A64 boards. They just don't do the math for you.




zebo, what mobo would you recommend buying with the processor?
------
EPOX EP-8KDA3J without question. $90, seen it get 330 HTT/FSB stock in the forums, 250GB chipset (the high end one from nvidia). This is what I got, Shimmy has it too and could tell you about it as I hav'nt messed around because I'm wating on the painfully slow Dtek to get me my A64 waterblock.

 

[Ariste]

Heh, this is tough. I'm getting conflicting opinions. I asked this over at the Overclocker's Forums and the answer I got was that the 3400+ would overclock farther than the 3000+. Wish I could get a definitive answer on this.

I think I understand the RAM speed... basically I can run it at a ratio relative to the HTT (FSB) speed, so if the RAM won't support 250MHz and I have the HTT at 250MHz, I can run the RAM at a lower speed so that I can keep the HTT high and still have the RAM run. Is that basically right?

Also, I have another question about the Epox EP-8KDA3J:

Since I plan to be overclocking, do you recommend getting a Northbridge cooler for it? I've read that the small heatsink on it may not be enough.

Thanks for your help,

 

[SickBeast]

The 3400+ should overclock farther, but the difference will be negligible. Since the price difference is far from negligible, I would get the 3000+ hands down.

 

[Ariste]

Well, I can get the 3400+ Newcastle CG Revision from MonarchComputer.com for $288, which seems like a pretty amazing deal.

Would you mind explaining to me why the 3400+ will only overclock a little bit farther than the 3000+? Not that I doubt that you are right, but I just want it to make sense for me.

Thanks,

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Ariste
Would you mind explaining to me why the 3400+ will only overclock a little bit farther than the 3000+? Not that I doubt that you are right, but I just want it to make sense for me.

Well, I obviously can only guess as to how far these chips will overclock. I'm making the estimate based on the past track records of CPUs. Typically, the slowest chip released on a given revision will overclock to levels only slightly lower than the speeds attainable on the fastest chips. If the 3400+ is a newer revision than the 3000+, then yes, it should overclock more. How much more is left to guesswork. Have you tried the overclockers.com database?

As others have said, a 2.4C northwood can typically reach 3.6ghz, which is about the same speed that a 3.2C can reach. A 2500+ AXP can usually hit 2.4ghz or so, which again is about what a 3200+ can reach.

 

[Ariste]

Alright, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go with the 3400+. For 60 bucks extra ($288 vs. $238) I think it's worth not having to take the risk that I won't be able to OC all that far. At least if I get the 3400+ I'll already be at 2.4GHz and can work from there, not have to worry about getting to 2.4GHz and beyond and maintaining stability.

Thanks for all your help,

 

[dimasukr]

Right,
Think about 3000+ and 3400+ as a same CPU but with different max multiplier.
I.e 3000+ has 10 and 3400+ has 12.
Remember you can change multiplier down on any A64 unlike P4
Even if both CPU overclock the same with 3400+ you have more flexibility with memory and motherboard.
Say if you get Asus K8N it maxes at about 220Mhz - so you will get higher o/c with 12x multi than with 10x
Now some mobos can get much hicher - close to 300Mhz - but it is not guarantied.
Same goes for memory.
So for $60 you basically buy the ability to get higher max multiplier.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: SickBeast


As others have said, a 2.4C northwood can typically reach 3.6ghz, which is about the same speed that a 3.2C can reach. A 2500+ AXP can usually hit 2.4ghz or so, which again is about what a 3200+ can reach.

I dont know who these "others" are, but I have yet to see a 3.2c that wouldnt go past 3.6gig.

dimasukr, the 3400+ has a 11x, not 12x.

 

[lookouthere]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: SickBeast


As others have said, a 2.4C northwood can typically reach 3.6ghz, which is about the same speed that a 3.2C can reach. A 2500+ AXP can usually hit 2.4ghz or so, which again is about what a 3200+ can reach.

I dont know who these "others" are, but I have yet to see a 3.2c that wouldnt go past 3.6gig.

dimasukr, the 3400+ has a 11x, not 12x.

actually the new Castle one have 12x multiplier

 

[Shimmishim]

Originally posted by: lookouthere

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: SickBeast


As others have said, a 2.4C northwood can typically reach 3.6ghz, which is about the same speed that a 3.2C can reach. A 2500+ AXP can usually hit 2.4ghz or so, which again is about what a 3200+ can reach.

I dont know who these "others" are, but I have yet to see a 3.2c that wouldnt go past 3.6gig.

dimasukr, the 3400+ has a 11x, not 12x.

actually the new Castle one have 12x multiplier

yup yup that is correct...

the newcastle one which you seem to be talking about which runs at 2.4 ghz is 12 mult x 200

the clawhammer which you were not talking about runs at 2.2 ghz or 11 x 200

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: Shimmishim

the clawhammer which you were not talking about runs at 2.2 ghz or 11 x 200

It is what I was talking about, its what I have.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: SickBeast


As others have said, a 2.4C northwood can typically reach 3.6ghz, which is about the same speed that a 3.2C can reach. A 2500+ AXP can usually hit 2.4ghz or so, which again is about what a 3200+ can reach.

I dont know who these "others" are, but I have yet to see a 3.2c that wouldnt go past 3.6gig.

dimasukr, the 3400+ has a 11x, not 12x.

How much past? Using what type of cooling? I'm talking about air-cooled here under normal conditions, not the Tom's Hardware 4ghz liquid nitrogen stuff.